Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

gorgon wrote:

Pariah Press wrote: I wager that very few people have squads of 40K beastmen. GW only made, what, two or three 40K beastmen? I'm not saying that they shouldn't be in the army, I'm just saying that hardly anyone is getting screwed by the lack of beastmen.

What?

Honestly, I have no idea.

I just didn't understand your comment. My point was that the daemon codex could be more inclusive, and that there's a precedent for Beastmen/Mutants in the 2nd ed. Daemonworld list. Rumors say they're including Doombreed and Foulspawn from that list in the new codex, so it seems almost spiteful that they wouldn't include Cultists or Mutants to throw LatD players a bone.

Not sure how the old IG beastmen models come into it.

But there are no 40K Beastmen models and no plans to make any!!! Sure, there are WHFB Beastmen models, but everybody knows 40K and WHFB are totally separate games in totally separate universes with no crossover whatsoever and GW will never sell WHFB models for use in a 40K army!!!!!!! It's just unpossible!!!!!!!!!!!

So, what are these Daemonic Heralds I keep hearing about? Something totally new for the daemon codex?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:But there are no 40K Beastmen models and no plans to make any!!! Sure, there are WHFB Beastmen models, but everybody knows 40K and WHFB are totally separate games in totally separate universes with no crossover whatsoever and GW will never sell WHFB models for use in a 40K army!!!!!!! It's just unpossible!!!!!!!!!!!

So, what are these Daemonic Heralds I keep hearing about? Something totally new for the daemon codex?

Except for codex daemons is a WHFB army that they are making for 40k......

That aside for some reason I keep thinking of this codex as tyranids mkII. You'll have Mounsterous slow melee daemons that no one will take because there're too slow. Your have a ton of infintry option that no one will take because of demonettes (demonic gene stealers.) and your have some shooty MC deamons in HS that every one will take.

I hope I'm wrong about this

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:But there are no 40K Beastmen models and no plans to make any!!! Sure, there are WHFB Beastmen models, but everybody knows 40K and WHFB are totally separate games in totally separate universes with no crossover whatsoever and GW will never sell WHFB models for use in a 40K army!!!!!!! It's just unpossible!!!!!!!!!!!

So, what are these Daemonic Heralds I keep hearing about? Something totally new for the daemon codex?

Daemonic Heralds are

Mansized daemons which can be marked for any power currently. They appeared in the storm of chaos list.

Seriously, can somebody give me a rundown of the WFB daemon legion list? What units, in which slots? Do they enter play by being summoned? Are they just marching? Are there war machines, chariots, anything of note?

They made the list available for DL during Storm of Chaos. Look it up yourself. Should be under the WHFB Chaos section.

Dead Horse wrote:Seriously, can somebody give me a rundown of the WFB daemon legion list? What units, in which slots? Do they enter play by being summoned? Are they just marching? Are there war machines, chariots, anything of note?

Here we go, from memory:

LORD

Bloodthirster, Keeper of Secrets, Lord of Change, Great Unclean One
Demon Prince

HERO

Exalted Demon
Demonic Herald

CORE

Bloodletters, Demonettes, Horrors, Plaguebearers
Flesh Hounds, Mounted Demonettes, Flamers, Nurglings
Screamers, Furies

SPECIAL

Blood Crushers, Pleasure Seekers, Change Bringers, Plague Riders

RARE

Chariots of Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle

That's all I can remember. Core units are limited in that you have to take "true core" (letters, nettes, horrors, bearers) in order to take the more unique / faster stuff.

Demons aren't summoned in fantasy, nor will they be in C: Demons. No war machines except for the chariots in the SoC list.

- Salvage

PS: Apologies to followers of Grandfather Nurgle for putting your units last. It has nothing to do with my (tenuous but lasting) allegiance to Old Tizz ()

PPS:

Blood Crusher = Bloodletter on Juggernought
Pleasure Seeker = Demonette on Boobworm
Change Bringer = Flamer on Disc
Plague Rider = Plaguebearer on Beast of Nurgle

Boss_Salvage wrote:
Pleasure Seeker = Demonette on Boobworm

I always wondered what those things were called.

Tacobake wrote:

Boss_Salvage wrote:
Pleasure Seeker = Demonette on Boobworm

I always wondered what those things were called.

Well, there's also T!tmaggot if you prefer

- Salvage, who seriously loves the new nono emorkicon

I personally will be dissapointed if the entire codex does not have a series of shifting faces, twisted in anguish as the warp enters them. Also, the book should be made out of the flesh of the innocent, similar to my Necronomicon.

Boss_Salvage wrote:
Well, there's also T!tmaggot if you prefer

Thanks for the list. I move we name this book codex: t!tmaggot!

It could have one of those changing pictures on the cover, swirls and morphs as you move it- all the kids will buy it, it's pretty.

I second the belief that it may become Codex: Spiky Nids. Seriously, are there any new angles/styles of play this Codex could fulfil?
It is a blatant attempt to sell more daemons, even in the old CSM Codex daemons weren't that popular. Make it so that you must have a full army to use any preferably incredibly powerful on the usual Codex Creep- chur-ching.

I'll also be laughing for weeks after when Chaos players and the supporters of 'Jervis's Plan' find that on release Codex Daemons isn't the prozac for all the injustices done to the CSM Codex in terms of variety, fluff support of the Legions, etc, etc. There is no reason to support that Codex Daemons will be any less a train wreck than the current crop.

I think it will have to have some form of difference to codex nids, now on the one hand both have large monstrous creatures, but the demon codex will have less, and i think it's going to have to emphasis the durabilit of the troops (warp) and be more 'elite' than the hordes nid plaers can churn out.

I doubt it will 'cure'codex CSM - and as i personall like the CSM book couldn't care either way.

gorgon wrote:Rumors say they're including Doombreed and Foulspawn from that list in the new codex, so it seems almost spiteful that they wouldn't include Cultists or Mutants to throw LatD players a bone.

Gw is NEVER spiteful of its own customers. Just ask Squat players.

Shadow Scorpion wrote:I second the belief that it may become Codex: Spiky Nids. Seriously, are there any new angles/styles of play this Codex could fulfil?

They could Always Deep Strike and Assault when arriving...

It is a blatant attempt to sell more daemons,

No, really? You don't say!

I'll also be laughing for weeks after when Chaos players and the supporters of 'Jervis's Plan' find that on release Codex Daemons isn't the prozac for all the injustices done to the CSM Codex

What "injustices" are you speaking of? The current CSM Codex is the most understandable and playable version we've had in decades, precisely because it isn't loaded down in rules and options for the sake of having more rules and options. It's a very clean book that gives players the freedom to make as Fluffy of a list as they desire. And thematically, it's good that it pushes the fighting *back* to the Marines, rather than to summoned Daemons (i.e. Bloodletters & Daemonettes). What crap that was.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The current CSM Codex is the most understandable and playable version we've had in decades, precisely because it isn't loaded down in rules and options for the sake of having more rules and options.

And in the process John, it lost all its flavour, fluff, variety and everything else that made it interesting.

'Generic Daemons' are a directed insult towards Chaos players who have been playing Chaos for years, especially when said Chaos players have spent a considerable amount of money on getting together well crafted and themed lists based around daemons (like me), the Chaos Legions (like me), and Lost & The Damned (like me).

Wait... sorry John. I forgot. LatD haven't lost their list according to you... I 'spose by your own logic the Legions haven't lost their lists either? And Daemons are still fun despite a base of Nurglings being identicle to a Fury.

BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:

I'll also be laughing for weeks after when Chaos players and the supporters of 'Jervis's Plan' find that on release Codex Daemons isn't the prozac for all the injustices done to the CSM Codex

What "injustices" are you speaking of? The current CSM Codex is the most understandable and playable version we've had in decades, precisely because it isn't loaded down in rules and options for the sake of having more rules and options. It's a very clean book that gives players the freedom to make as Fluffy of a list as they desire. And thematically, it's good that it pushes the fighting *back* to the Marines, rather than to summoned Daemons (i.e. Bloodletters & Daemonettes). What crap that was.

John... You and I have had our disagreements, but you're one of the old school RGMW guys and I consider you to be one of my boys.

but you're on crack.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:The current CSM Codex is the most understandable and playable version we've had in decades, precisely because it isn't loaded down in rules and options for the sake of having more rules and options.

And in the process John, it lost all its flavour, fluff, variety and everything else that made it interesting.

Wait... sorry John. I forgot. LatD haven't lost their list according to you... I 'spose by your own logic the Legions haven't lost their lists either? And Daemons are still fun despite a base of Nurglings being identicle to a Fury.

Really? The recent CSM book added flavor beyond the original Traitor Legions, has more Fluff than its predecessor, along with more variety in army options. If by "interesting" you mean huge numbers options and narrow, untested lists that nobody played, I suppose that might be true. If one ignored the facts.

As for LatD, you got your Apocalypse Datasheet, so as far as I'm concerned, you've gotten far more than you deserved.

Nobody says players can't play Legions. If anything, a player can do more than ever before within a Legion theme. Assuming they have some notion of what their Legion Fluff should be, and the tiniest smidgen of imagination. OTOH, if you lack the slightest shred of imagination, perhaps, 40k Chaos isn't the army for you.

As I said above, Daemons overshadowing Chaos Marines was a bad design. I'm glad to see them being split off into a separate book. And as Nurglings will get whatever special rule(s) in the new book, I think you can shut up about that, too.

I find your incessant whining tiresome. Seriously, you whine like you're the only person who's ever had their army invalidated. If I hadn't moved on past it, I might still be whining about losing my all-Veterans army from the first 40k3 CSM book. But I have, so I suggest you grow up a little and do the same. If you lack this kind of basic maturity, again, maybe 40k isn't the game for you.

GW is going to redo armies again and again. So you really need to rethink whether you can deal with the changes. With your inability to cope with changes, I just don't think you belong in "the GW hobby" (tm). Do us all a favor and walk away.

Blackheart666 wrote:John... You and I have had our disagreements, but you're one of the old school RGMW guys and I consider you to be one of my boys.

but you're on crack.

Blackie, we'll have more in the future, and it's no biggie.

But I gotta say that I'm *really* liking the new Chaos Marine book. From my POV, it is nearly perfect for how I want to play my CSM. So I really could care less what others (i.e. HMBC) whine about.

And given that you're a Red Corsairs player, I can't imagine why you'd have any issues with the current book.

Similarly, I really like how 40k is streamlining, again, because it's what I've been wanting 40k to do. I spent the last year positioning my armies for streamlined Codices, so of course this is all gravy for me.

Preview of the Herald from Warseer:



More info http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117659&page=4

Heralds look OK, nothing unexpected. Let's hope the rest of the book follows suit.

Easy E wrote:

gorgon wrote:Rumors say they're including Doombreed and Foulspawn from that list in the new codex, so it seems almost spiteful that they wouldn't include Cultists or Mutants to throw LatD players a bone.

Gw is NEVER spiteful of its own customers. Just ask Squat players.

TEN FRAKKING YEARS

MOVE ON

HBMC wrote:'Generic Daemons' are a directed insult towards Chaos players who have been playing Chaos for years

GW HATES YOU HBMC

YOU, PERSONALLY

GENERIC DAEMONS ARE THERE SPECIFICALLY TO TICK YOU OFF

THEY'RE ALL LAUGHING AT YOU

Jesus wept but you guys take this STUFF too seriously

Salvation122 wrote:

Easy E wrote:

gorgon wrote:Rumors say they're including Doombreed and Foulspawn from that list in the new codex, so it seems almost spiteful that they wouldn't include Cultists or Mutants to throw LatD players a bone.

Gw is NEVER spiteful of its own customers. Just ask Squat players.

TEN FRAKKING YEARS

MOVE ON

Erm, did you lose $1000-$10,000 that you had invested in a Squat army? If not, you have absolutely zero right to tell Squat players to move on.

I got into 40K in late 2nd edition, and never heard of Squats until I started discussing GW on the internet. I can still understand why Squat players complain. I have a large Guard army that cost me several thousand dollars to collect. I'd be very pissed off indeed if GW discontinued support, removed them from the fluff and refused to print even a token list. The same probably applies to <insert your favorite army here>.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Heralds look OK, nothing unexpected. Let's hope the rest of the book follows suit.

Yep. There's a decent number of options - which has me really looking forward to the Herald kit. The new Carnifex includes a whole bunch of different heads and tails and the like to model the different options. I'm interested in seeing how Soul Devourer, Cloud of Flies and some of the other upgrades will be represented on the models.

Salvation122 wrote:Jesus wept but you guys take this gak too seriously

Usually the guy talking to people in ALL CAPS is the one taking it too seriously.

Take 5 man. Get that blood presure down ay?



BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Blackheart666 wrote:John... You and I have had our disagreements, but you're one of the old school RGMW guys and I consider you to be one of my boys.

but you're on crack.

Blackie, we'll have more in the future, and it's no biggie.

But I gotta say that I'm *really* liking the new Chaos Marine book. From my POV, it is nearly perfect for how I want to play my CSM. So I really could care less what others (i.e. HMBC) whine about.

And given that you're a Red Corsairs player, I can't imagine why you'd have any issues with the current book.

Similarly, I really like how 40k is streamlining, again, because it's what I've been wanting 40k to do. I spent the last year positioning my armies for streamlined Codices, so of course this is all gravy for me.

Actually I'm primarily a (Black) Legion player, but I used alot of Nurgle, a little khorne, was about to put together a bunch of Slaanesh stuff and held out hopes that 1K Sons would eventually be viable.

I put together and primed 3 10 man squads worth of 1K Sons in anticipation of the new Codex and bought them Rhinos and FW doors and all that.

Played 2 games and shelved the army. I'm still painting them, but as for play... I'm Tyranids now.

Why? The codex just isnt viable. Demons are a complete waste of points.. to the point of why are they even devoting pages in the book to them? CSM are now outnumbered by everything unless you use a completely bland and static gunline army.... and fight Biker marines.. but then you'll get out-power-weaponed and charged on the 2nd turn anyway.

So... yeah... The best way to use CSM now is as a Red Corsairs type force... but you can make a better Red Corsairs army with more options by using the normal Space Marine codex.

so yeah... why bother?

Salvation122 wrote:

Easy E wrote:

gorgon wrote:Rumors say they're including Doombreed and Foulspawn from that list in the new codex, so it seems almost spiteful that they wouldn't include Cultists or Mutants to throw LatD players a bone.

Gw is NEVER spiteful of its own customers. Just ask Squat players.

TEN FRAKKING YEARS

MOVE ON

HBMC wrote:'Generic Daemons' are a directed insult towards Chaos players who have been playing Chaos for years

GW HATES YOU HBMC

YOU, PERSONALLY

GENERIC DAEMONS ARE THERE SPECIFICALLY TO PISS YOU OFF

THEY'RE ALL LAUGHING AT YOU

Jesus wept but you guys take this gak too seriously

so.. when are the mods coming down on this joker? "In the interest of a shinier and happier Dakka".

Blackheart666 wrote:Actually I'm primarily a (Black) Legion player, but I used alot of Nurgle, a little khorne, was about to put together a bunch of Slaanesh stuff and held out hopes that 1K Sons would eventually be viable.

So... yeah... The best way to use CSM now is as a Red Corsairs type force... but you can make a better Red Corsairs army with more options by using the normal Space Marine codex.

so yeah... why bother?

Of course, if you read the writing on the wall, that "normal Space Marine codex" is going to see a bunch of changes to bring it in line with the DA and BA Codices. At that point, balance will be restored, and you'll have been better off playing CSM as CSM.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Blackheart666 wrote:Actually I'm primarily a (Black) Legion player, but I used alot of Nurgle, a little khorne, was about to put together a bunch of Slaanesh stuff and held out hopes that 1K Sons would eventually be viable.

So... yeah... The best way to use CSM now is as a Red Corsairs type force... but you can make a better Red Corsairs army with more options by using the normal Space Marine codex.

so yeah... why bother?

Of course, if you read the writing on the wall, that "normal Space Marine codex" is going to see a bunch of changes to bring it in line with the DA and BA Codices. At that point, balance will be restored, and you'll have been better off playing CSM as CSM.

to be absolutely honest with you. If that is what 5th edition (or retro 3rd) looks like, it will be my final push out the door that i have (admittedly) been hovering near for quite some time.