Agamemnon2 wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:Remember that it's always better to attribute something to stupidity than it is to malice (something I'm reminded of quite often when I read your posts John), so I simply refuse to believe that they're overbalancing items like Hidden Power Fists and Assault Cannons in an effort to sell new models. I think they're overbalancing them because they truly believe they're doing a good job in these areas.
Personally, I doubt they even care about what they're doing. The "it's just toy soldiers, what does it matter" mindset. Whenever
GW wants to rebalance something, they appear to choose the means pretty much by random, only to undo it all in the next revision. They've said that the game is secondary to the models, and I believe their actions only reinforce this, because there's nothing to show that they even care what the game is like or how it plays.
I don't think
GW is as clueless about unit and army balance as they were four years ago. Back in early 4th, the disparity between Orks/
DH and Eldar/Chaos was huge, far more than the gap in late fourth edition. We all know that
GW always cuts too deep. In 2nd edition, from what I've heard, psychic powers were game breaking. In 3rd, they barely existed, and now they are one tool among many in a good players kit. In 3rd, transport armies were sick and Rhino Rush was king. In 4th, transports barely existed outside of Sisters armies. In 4th, no one play style dominated, but nearly everything that people found overpowering was nerfed: rending, highly durable non-troops scoring units (falcons and
TMCs), powerfists, plasma, etc. The 5th edition cuts have, for the most part, been more nuanced than previous iterations. The one area that cut too deep may have been powerfists, but given the new combat system, casualties matter a lot. In a
MEQ v.
MEQ fight, even a nerfed powerfist will probably be the deciding factor. 5th edition also eliminates the inititive game, so a fist will always swing (unless it dies). I'm not sure if they've perfectly balanced the fist, but it's still incredibly useful while not being a no-brainer.
I've also given some thought to the old "new models = hot new rules" chestnut, and I've decided that it's simpy not true, at least no more true than you'd expect. Let's run down the plastic kits
GW has released, and see how amazing each unit is:
Daemonettes: great in 4th, solid in 5th, but the rules are still a step down from the old chaos book (assault on the charge!)
Bloodletters: They've always been great against
MEQs, and still are, but all in all not a must have unit.
SoulGrinder: This might be a great unit. Not essential, but a really powerul unit.
Ok, the demon codex in general is pretty weaksauce. Most people playing it are guys with demons from the old Chaos book, adding few new toys here and there. Lets look at orks.
Re-cut boys: One of the best units in the game. Totally hot new rules, mostly new models.
Trukk: Fun rules, but 5th edition makes trukks in general far less appealing. Stil, a solid unit.
Bikes: better than before, but still not amazing. Undeniably useful, and another solid unit, but not gamechanging.
Lootas/Burnas: total hotness. Amazingly good.
The Ork releases seem to reflect the swing in power from
KoS to Footslogging shooters, while the book in general is probably the best right now. Imean, is there a unit in the book other than Tankbustas that isn't solid? Before Orks was Chaos:
Possessed: incredible new models, uh, interesting new rules. Used heavily for converstions, but this unit sucks hard.
Terminators: A top shelf unit, undeniably. Not as good in practice as they looked on paper. The models also weren't a huge improvment,
IMO.
Vindicator: Better under 5th, at the time it competed with Oblits. Solid but not amazing
Termie-Lord: I don't know about kits like this: I suppose most players buy one, but
IMO A termie lord is behind Princes, jump sorcerors, and mounted lords for best choice. An utterly unnecessary but pretty kit that had very 'meh' rules.
RE-cut
CSM: Much better accessories, decent rules. The cult marines are generally better, but
CSM are still decent and chosen are aces, so not a total wash. Still not hot new rules though.
Spawn: Haha! Fun models, awful rules.
Chaos got a big haul, but their best units (princes, oblits, Cults, raptors) all stayed the same. If there had been an oblit and raptor box instead of Spawn and Possessed, I would give this theory a lot more credence. As it is, Two of the best kits are for laughably bad units, another kit is a space marine transplant that was past it's due anyway, with terminators as the only unit to get clearly better (though not by much) models and better rules. Before that was
DA:
Ravenwing sprue: Good models for a good unit. Of course, this sprue isn't required to play ravenwing, it's just nice.
DA/Deathwing sprue: Beautiful new models for units that got, well, new rules. I'm not sure they're great, but the models are enough to get people excited. Woo!
Sniper Scouts: Amazing new models, but rules that leave a lot to be desired (take an ok unit, jack the cost, move it to elites)
Whirlwind: People have been wanting this model for like, 5 years. It's about freaking time! Rules have little to do with it.
Devastators: Rules had nothing to do with the popularity of this kit, the PITA that was the old lascannon did.
The
DA release is odd, because the codex was sort of
DOA, ruleswise, and the models generally either were upgrade sprues or generic
SM releases. Nothing in that book had hot new rules, let alone any of the new models. Apocolpse was around this time:
Vindicator: No new rules except for a nice data sheet, but the model was long awaited and appreciated.
Baneblade: This has sick rules for a stupidly low price, and that was done purely to flog models. A big hit on this one.
BEfore that was Eldar:
Warwalker: I know eldar armies exist beyond tri-falcon, but warwalkers are at best a 3rd place heavy choice, and the rules don't help it. Sweet new models that replaced some of the last
RT vintage models left in the game.
Wraithlord: Better in 5th, at the time
WLs were a littel passe.
Dire Avengers: Much improved rules, hot new models. While certainly not overpowering, Avengers are a great unit.
REcut Guardians: Not exactly new models, not exactly better rules. Meh
I can't help but think I'm missing an eldar unit, but anyway, on to Tau:
Pirhana: An anticipated model from forgeworld, the rules were good enough to jusity everybody buying a couple.
Skyray: Another
FW crossover, the rules were decent and fun, but at the time weren't great. Getting better in 5th.
Stealth suits: replacing great old models + rules that got worse + a few new options = not an amazing new unit.
Nothing really noteworthy here. Before Tau was
BT:
Scouts: While they had good rules for
BT, and decent rules in
SM, I think it was the convertability that made this a big seller.
ASsault terminators: An inevitable step, nobody has rules that make me want to buy these.
BT crusader/vehicle sprue:
BTs have some good rules, they need
BP/
CCW, and so I think this makes good rules for the unit.
So, maybe the upgrade sprues were a result of rules, but not much else. Before that was nids:
Carnifex: arguably the kit that gave this theory legs, an entire build was born because of one rule and one kit.
Stealers: Better stealers, better models. I'll buy this one too.
Both new Nid plastics got shiny new rules, so this theory was truer back then! Finally, Codex: space marines:
REcut Tactical squad: after an edition of being poor country cousins to
BA and
SW in rhino rush,
SM now have awesome pod powers and reliable las/
plas. As a good troop choice in a powerful codex that's also the most popular kit
GW sells, I think there was some relation between rules and new kit.
Attack bike: Yeah, because that switch to 2 wounds made me buy 3 of these! Or I bought three assault cannon bits, glued them to my speeders and went about my business.
Terminators: Another kit that really spawned this rumor: "hey, let's make a really powerful unit, but only include one
AC in each box!" The battlewagon guys probably paid off their student loans on this kit.
Commander: I never got this kit. One lightning claw? A great kit for conversions. Rites of battle did make cheap, foot masters viable, so there was some relation. All in all, if the kit had included both claws and a jump pack it would have sold more.
Command squad: a unit that's aggresively bad. Neat kit though.
I haven't kept track, but for every "that new model has amazing rules", I think there was a matching "that new model has really lousy rules!" Most units get better, or at least different rules in a new codex, so once you seperate out the background noise I think the theory as a standard operating principle is probably not true. Some kits were so beautifully matched to rules (fex, baneblade) that it's likely
GW errs a bit on the side of over powered for it's high investment kits. The mumak for
LotR was pretty kicking, is the WFB giant or the HE dragon a game breaker?
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