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I really, really hope that those plastic Valkyries will be released sometime next year, otherwise my Elysians will never go air mobile.

Is the SW Dex really older than the Dark Eldar one?

Yep, Dark Eldar got a 3rd edition rewrite long after codex SW came out.

Infact, I believe that Dark Angels also had rewrite, giving DA and DE two 3rd edition codices. Once DE and IG get thier codex, SW will be the last man standing .

wyomingfox wrote:

Is the SW Dex really older than the Dark Eldar one?

Yep, Dark Eldar got a 3rd edition rewrite long after codex SW came out.

Infact, I believe that Dark Angels also had rewrite, giving DA and DE two 3rd edition codices. Once DE and IG get thier codex, SW will be the last man standing .

DH/WH were 3rd also.

derek wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:

Is the SW Dex really older than the Dark Eldar one?

Yep, Dark Eldar got a 3rd edition rewrite long after codex SW came out.

Infact, I believe that Dark Angels also had rewrite, giving DA and DE two 3rd edition codices. Once DE and IG get thier codex, SW will be the last man standing .

DH/WH were 3rd also.

Yep, and since we've heard nothing about any ordos armies, it's a forgone conclusion they won't be happening any time soon.

Don't forget Daemon and Witch Hunters. Not as old as the Spase Puppies, but still 3rd Ed.

Plastic Valkyries! Maybe its time to bust out the rules for D-99 drop troops from forge world...

Hmmm.
Yes, lets have more armies in 40k than the dev team can give timely support to.

Lots of choice is good.But not if it means appx 1/3 of possible player choices are left 2 editions behind!

Plastic Stegadon to be availiable as a rare, special and mount option. Up to nine said to fieldable in one list. New kroxigors.

someone tell me this crap aint true.
9 per army? its a piss take, they will have the stats of a bloody terradon with no wings.
plastic steggy = great idea
9 per army = low points, screwed up stats and possibly a great model for them.

so once again, could be another amazing looking model, but with crap stats, like 70% of the new stuff. (or the other way round)

Unless they do it like the Carnifex...

XXX points spent on the Stegadon makes it Rare, under XXX makes it special.

Mount for whatever?

Wehrkind wrote:Don't forget Daemon and Witch Hunters. Not as old as the Spase Puppies, but still 3rd Ed.

Technically you are right, but WH and DH are 4rth edition codices at heart, having come out just prior to the release of 4rth's core rulebook... Though I had forgotten that necrons had a 3rd edition codex as well, but it looks like they too shall have a nice shiny new codex before my beloved Space WOLVES.

JD21290 wrote:

Plastic Stegadon to be availiable as a rare, special and mount option. Up to nine said to fieldable in one list. New kroxigors.

someone tell me this crap aint true.
9 per army? its a piss take, they will have the stats of a bloody terradon with no wings.
plastic steggy = great idea
9 per army = low points, screwed up stats and possibly a great model for them.

so once again, could be another amazing looking model, but with crap stats, like 70% of the new stuff. (or the other way round)

I seriously doubt that they will underpower it. With the way fantasy armies have been going recently, it's likely to be excessively brutal and join the ranks of VE and Daemons in the "Mike Tyson vs. Little Jimmy" category when put up against older armies.

wyomingfox wrote:

Is the SW Dex really older than the Dark Eldar one?

Yep, Dark Eldar got a 3rd edition rewrite long after codex SW came out.

Infact, I believe that Dark Angels also had rewrite, giving DA and DE two 3rd edition codices. Once DE and IG get thier codex, SW will be the last man standing .

DE didn't have a re-write. Same book, with typos corrected is all, back when GW tried to make us care when they fixed the typos. The DE codex is effectively the same book published in 1998 while SW are from 2000. Re-writes are where rules are substantially altered not when corrections are made.

The SW codex is written in part referentially to the Space Marine codex, meaning every time a new codex Space Marine is written SW rules are adjusted to minimal degree. By that indirect action SW have seen more changes and updates than DE.

wyomingfox wrote:Technically you are right, but WH and DH are 4rth edition codices at heart, having come out just prior to the release of 4rth's core rulebook... Though I had forgotten that necrons had a 3rd edition codex as well, but it looks like they too shall have a nice shiny new codex before my beloved Space WOLVES.

When you stop and look at most of the codices, a substantial number of them are intended for both 3rd and 4th or 4th and 5th. These transitional periods seem to always get people flustered over the unintended impact on their codex from the updated core rules. I don't think it really maters how old a codex is as long as its playable and fun. The DE codex still is a good book, it shows its age but is still pretty playable; its really the DE miniatures that need the update more than the book. I wouldn't doubt the SW will get redone, but with the basic marines constantly being taken care of, even you have to admit more marine stuff isn't necessary.

They rewrote the DE book. I remember when Witches did not get invulnerable saves in HtH, and Witch Weapons did all kinds of different and freaky things instead of the generic effect they have now.

Aduro wrote:They rewrote the DE book. I remember when Witches did not get invulnerable saves in HtH, and Witch Weapons did all kinds of different and freaky things instead of the generic effect they have now.

I guess you're right if taking out rules and re-releasing a book without any additional miniatures counts as an update.

aka_mythos wrote:DE didn't have a re-write. Same book, with typos corrected is all, back when GW tried to make us care when they fixed the typos. The DE codex is effectively the same book published in 1998 while SW are from 2000. Re-writes are where rules are substantially altered not when corrections are made.

The SW codex is written in part referentially to the Space Marine codex, meaning every time a new codex Space Marine is written SW rules are adjusted to minimal degree. By that indirect action SW have seen more changes and updates than DE.

So the SW army, noticeably more popular than the DE range, requires me to purchase two books to play, making it more expensive than ANY other army in the game. Hmmm?

And the DE rerelease did more than fix typos. So, considering that the SW are the ONLY army requiring two books, and that flies against the intention of the company, I'd say they should be, by your logic, the most important redo, barring a major FAQ. Which isn't coming.

aka_mythos wrote:When you stop and look at most of the codices, a substantial number of them are intended for both 3rd and 4th or 4th and 5th. These transitional periods seem to always get people flustered over the unintended impact on their codex from the updated core rules. I don't think it really maters how old a codex is as long as its playable and fun. The DE codex still is a good book, it shows its age but is still pretty playable; its really the DE miniatures that need the update more than the book. I wouldn't doubt the SW will get redone, but with the basic marines constantly being taken care of, even you have to admit more marine stuff isn't necessary.

It's not more Marine stuff to me. It's the Space Wolves. The first ever Codex supplement. Still one of the most popular armies in the game. So it's not just more Marines. Just as the DE aren't just more "Eldar".

nope.

G

Not only that, but the SW dex was intended to work with the 3rd ed. SM dex, not the 4th, and definitely not the 5th. I won't use my Wolves until they get at least a White Dwarf or a pretty extensive FAQ.

I may be overreacting though, as I do not have the new SM dex and everything may work out just peachy.

Alas, my poor SW will continue to sit on the shelf and dream of drop pods.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Unless they are massively toning down the stegadon (I hope not) this must be a fan boi's wet dream.

Probably, it'll be as broken as the current High Elf Dragons - not very broken at all.

Raxor wrote:Generic daemons eh? Can't say CSMs are being ignored.

It's a pity that I just bought some Daemons to field as generics - if GW had generic models at the current plastic Daemon price point (10 for $22), I'd have bought them instead. I'm hoping for WFB Furies as the CSM generics.

Prometheum5 wrote:Hmmm... a plastic Valk kit should be alot of fun if done right.

Why do I feel like DE aren't the right choice for an upcoming Codex yet... didn't they redo DE not that long ago?

If done right, that plastic Valk will support a very inexpensive (relatively speaking) FW mixed-resin Vulture gunship in the same way as the FW Arkaturion (sp?) Baneblade variants.

redstripe wrote:Nice to see some confirmation of IG and a Valkyrie in the spring/summer. This will be an important release for GW if they hope to get me to buy back in.

IG got a lot of love for Armageddon with the armor specials. As I'm really heavily invested in metals, plastic Storms don't do much for me. But oohhh, how I want that plastic Valk!

So I'm not crazy? There was a DE release?

Space Wolves were my first 40k army... but I still consider the Dark Eldar codex to be 'older'. The revision brought them up to date, sort of, but changed little.

wyomingfox wrote:So SW go from possible 1st Q to not going to happen in the forseeable future...oldest dex remians oldest...at least there is some consistancy

Oldest 'dex = Codex Dark Eldar. If you claim it's a newer codex because of the 'update' it got then I can claim that Codex Space Wolves is newer because it uses the new Codex Space Marines instead of the old one.

Space Wolves are actually never getting any kind of revamp. Not only do their miniatures continue to outsell virtually all other lines, Jervis is considering legalizing the second edition ruleset in an attempt to sell more of the plastic terminators and the new Techmarine models.

dienekes96 wrote:So the SW army, noticeably more popular than the DE range, requires me to purchase two books to play, making it more expensive than ANY other army in the game. Hmmm?

And the DE rerelease did more than fix typos. So, considering that the SW are the ONLY army requiring two books, and that flies against the intention of the company, I'd say they should be, by your logic, the most important redo, barring a major FAQ. Which isn't coming.

The DE codex did not receive a substantial change from the supposed update, much of it is identical to the original book. As I said its more the miniatures that need the update then the rules. The viability of DE has been far more diminished by the edition change while with the space wolves they've only been diminished with respect to the 5th ed Codex Space Marine.

All I can say to the fact you have to have two books is, it beats what happened to the Eye of Terror armies. What you say though points out the need of DE over SW, in that the SW could be solved with a FAQ, DE can't.

dienekes96 wrote:It's not more Marine stuff to me. It's the Space Wolves. The first ever Codex supplement. Still one of the most popular armies in the game. So it's not just more Marines. Just as the DE aren't just more "Eldar".

The reason they are just more marines is that regardless of any update or change the SW might get, chance are those will only be some additional variation of a unit that already exists in Codex Space Marines and that rather than any substantially unique miniatures they are likely to be add on parts to go with the current marine miniatures. From the rules perspective all that's going to happen is your units stats and prices will be brought in line with the current Marine codex, you'll get variation on some of their special rules, and some new units might be carried over.

The DE unlike the SW do not have the luxury of using vehicles and models from another army. Every time the marines recieved a new dreadnought, rhino, landraider, or land speeder the SW benefited from the new model. DE have seen nothing except the very limited update to their original book.

About purchasing two books for Space Wolves, it's really just one anymore. Ever since the SW codex went out of stock GW will send you a black and white pdf of it if you email them.

aka_mythos wrote:The DE codex did not receive a substantial change from the supposed update, much of it is identical to the original book. As I said its more the miniatures that need the update then the rules. The viability of DE has been far more diminished by the edition change while with the space wolves they've only been diminished with respect to the 5th ed Codex Space Marine.

Substantial is a judgement call. You initially stated they ONLY fixed typos, which was not accurate. So I was clarifying that point. While also pointing out that I understand the fundamental DE line is older, it still does NOT break GW's rule of one book = one army. Only one army does that.

aka_mythos wrote:All I can say to the fact you have to have two books is, it beats what happened to the Eye of Terror armies. What you say though points out the need of DE over SW, in that the SW could be solved with a FAQ, DE can't.

Fortunately for me, my army is the 13th Company, so I need THREE books to play that one. But I didn't bring that up because the 13th doesn't really exist in that form anymore. And the point about having two books isn't a gripe...I have money. It's the fact that it does not meet GW's stated goal, whereas every other Codex does. So I'd argue that it is the book most in need of revision, being the second oldest and single least compliant army list.

aka_mythos wrote:The reason they are just more marines is that regardless of any update or change the SW might get, chance are those will only be some additional variation of a unit that already exists in Codex Space Marines and that rather than any substantially unique miniatures they are likely to be add on parts to go with the current marine miniatures. From the rules perspective all that's going to happen is your units stats and prices will be brought in line with the current Marine codex, you'll get variation on some of their special rules, and some new units might be carried over.

That is speculation. And probably incorrect, based on the fundamental changes they made to Vanilla marines.

aka_mythos wrote:The DE unlike the SW do not have the luxury of using vehicles and models from another army. Every time the marines recieved a new dreadnought, rhino, landraider, or land speeder the SW benefited from the new model. DE have seen nothing except the very limited update to their original book.

Then it sucks for all five of the DE players. I specifically chose an army allowing me maximum utility through the model ranges GW produces. As you eloquently pointed out, this is about models, not rules. I know new Wolf Models exist, and I want them. Since the SW is so easy of a redo (since it's just the SM book rejiggered, according to you), they should pop them out first. Low risk, high reward...unlike the DE.

Ghaz wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:So SW go from possible 1st Q to not going to happen in the forseeable future...oldest dex remians oldest...at least there is some consistancy

Oldest 'dex = Codex Dark Eldar. If you claim it's a newer codex because of the 'update' it got then I can claim that Codex Space Wolves is newer because it uses the new Codex Space Marines instead of the old one.

Don't call it an update: There was changes to wyches and hellglaves with the 4+ invulnerable CC save, enemies WS reduced by 1/2. Your archon got a 2+ invulnerable. You could field a wych army. You got a bunch of new rules for your wargear and vehicles. You got about as much out of your update as Tau got our of thier new codex.

The SW codex is written in part referentially to the Space Marine codex, meaning every time a new codex Space Marine is written SW rules are adjusted to minimal degree. By that indirect action SW have seen more changes and updates than DE.

Our vehicles and some of our wargear has changed, but not the core selections and weapon choices of our infantry units.

I wouldn't doubt the SW will get redone, but with the basic marines constantly being taken care of, even you have to admit more marine stuff isn't necessary.

What I will agree with is that Smurfs didn't need a 5th edition dex and shouldn't have got one untill all the 3rd edition dexes were updated . That is all I will agree with.

aka_mythos wrote:Every time the marines recieved a new dreadnought, rhino, landraider, or land speeder the SW benefited from the new model. DE have seen nothing except the very limited update to their original book.

No Smurfs benefited from our Venerable Dreadnought, we already had one in 3rd. Vehicles for which we have an entry will get updated, but as it stands, we will not get the new LRR, the thunderfire cannon, or the Ironside Dread. Some of our wargear will get updated, but the main thing for me is the non-vehicle models. Our troops, our HQ, our wolfguard, our scouts, and our assualt and bike squads.

wyomingfox wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Every time the marines recieved a new dreadnought, rhino, landraider, or land speeder the SW benefited from the new model. DE have seen nothing except the very limited update to their original book.

No Smurfs benefited from our Venerable Dreadnought, we already had one in 3rd. Vehicles for which we have an entry will get updated, but as it stands, we will not get the new LRR, the thunderfire cannon, or the Ironside Dread. Some of our wargear will get updated, but the main thing for me is the non-vehicle models. Our troops, our HQ, our wolfguard, our scouts, and our assualt and bike squads.

You do get the new Land Raider, and Dreadnought though. All of the variant and options for Land Raiders, Dreadnoughts, Land Speeders, Attack Bikes, Predators, Vindicators, and Whirlwinds(which you get the better version of now as well) are chosen from the main Space Marine book except for the Venerable dreadnought which is still taken from Codex Space Wolves. It's in the FAQ.