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The plastic grots will most likely be just like the plastic Gnoblar: single or two-piece models with separate heads so "no two grots look the same"

Seems like! Sweet! Plastic Gretchin have been on my wish list since the one-piece models in the second edition 40K box!!!

So does this mean Lizardmen are getting a new codex? I thought that GW switched between releasing a 40k and WFB army codex without doing two of the same in a row. I guess they are counting the second release of orks to that.

Could be a Lord of the Rings release somewhere in there as well, but nobody cares about that one.

I'm *sure* we'll see more LotR releases. If only to fill gaps left by not releasing 40k and WFB minis.

I mean, GW can't possibly do a whole month on releaseing a $275+ gaming board, can they?!?

Didn't they try the same with those washes and hand flamer?

Guess what, Lord of the Rings is next months release. Glad to see no one actually bothered to find out...

@Ratbarf, you know this is a 40k/WFB-centric site. So if it doesn't concern 40k/WFB, it really doesn't exist or matter to most of the posters here.

Commisar00 wrote:So does this mean Lizardmen are getting a new codex? I thought that GW switched between releasing a 40k and WFB army codex without doing two of the same in a row. I guess they are counting the second release of orks to that.

Yeah, well, you should have seen how much attention Fantasy got when 3rd ed. started to kick off. I don't remember any specific pledge to alternate between the two, though.

Yah I know, just figured there have got to be other LOTR players on the site as well.

Shall we get back OT? Otherwise I know a very nice little sandbox for people to sit and "discuss" in...

Bell of Lost Souls wrote:MARCH:
Apocalypse
Stompa and one or more Baneblade variants (Stormlord and/or Shadowsword, possibly others).

Stompa?! Isnt that the ork version of a warhound titan? BIG ork robot in plastic? AWESOME!

Bell of Lost Souls wrote:APRIL-MAY:
Plastic Daemon Prince, new Seekers, rest of the named Daemons, possibly generic daemons and a Battleforce

A new dp in plastic. Lovely! Ive put in quite a bit of work in converting my metal dp and it wouldve been so much better with a plastic one. What does "rest of the named daemons" mean?

Bell of Lost Souls wrote:Q3-Q4:
Necrons
All the stuff reported here.

Reported where? Ive always thought the idea behind the necrons were really cool but not liked all the figs. So new range of figs? More plastic to the people!

Bell of Lost Souls wrote:Dark Eldar
New range by Jes Goodwin, Codex by Phil Kelley. End of the year, possibly bumped even later to make sure the army is done correctly.

Same here. Always thought DE was an awesome concept. Unfortunately the figs are totally ubber ugly. I wouldnt want to play DE if you gave me the figs. New pimped ones? Im intrigued... To bad that the names Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelley doesnt mean anything to me.

So, help a newb out here!

1) Phil Kelley: main writer of the Orks, Tyranids, and Eldar Codicies and the Warriors of Chaos armybook; considered one of their better book/rule writers out there.

2) Jes Goodwin: longtime GW sculptor, now in charge of plastics, and most well known for the 3rd edition Marine plastics (which now are the bedrock of that line). Also known for the plastic Carnifex, the new Khorne Lord on Jugger, the Eldar Wraithlord and Harlequins.

So in short...the two best guys on GW's payroll for the effort.

Jes also did the Falcon kit, if I recall correctly. If he did the Wraithlord, didn't he also do the new Warwalkers?

xedric wrote:Stompa?! Isnt that the ork version of a warhound titan? BIG ork robot in plastic? AWESOME!

A new dp in plastic. Lovely!
What does "rest of the named daemons" mean?

Reported where? Ive always thought the idea behind the necrons were really cool but not liked all the figs. So new range of figs? More plastic to the people!

To bad that the names Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelley doesnt mean anything to me.

Stompa is a Orky Warhound. It looks like a big potato. Tho I'm curious to see if it'll keep the old penile gun...

Daemon Prince goes plastic because it's a big metal model that costs them loads to produce. Plus, WFB doesn't have a decent DP model. Their DPs are old and weak-looking. Like the ancient, Ogre-sized GDs. The rest are the miscellaenous Special Characters that haven't been released with the C: Daemons.

Necron rumors are on Dakka (News & Rumors), from Bell of Lost Souls. Seach a little...

Jes Goodwin goes back to RT-era. He did the original Eldar (Aspects & Harlies) back in the day, along with the Space Marines. And the Sisters. Really, he does fantastic miniatures work, and is the primary reason why GW is the dominant TTG company.

DE Dex was the 2nd codex made in 3rd edition making it THE oldest codex in the game.

Except, DE got an update similar to Tau Empire, making SW the oldest Codex in the game.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Except, DE got an update similar to Tau Empire, making SW the oldest Codex in the game.

Well, the DE got a patch in about 2001, which was about two pages of updates to a realtively small handful of units (wyches, reavers, hellions(?)) wlong with the addition of the vehicle upgrades and the arcane wargear. All of this basically brought DE into line with the other books, which had more extensive armories already.

Tau Empire Added several new units (vespid, snipers, sky ray, piranhas), dramatically re-worked one unit (kroot), heavily tweaked two others (stealths and crisis suits), and added more wargear and expanded markerlight rules.

Space Wolves haven't changed fundamentally, in codex, since it was released, but many of the units call for the Space Marine codex, and do so for the points listed in the new SM book. Because of this, the Wolves have actually backed into some new units ( Crusaders, redeemers, Iron Clads) while getting updates and point changes on many others. As a bonus, some of the wargear has changed as well.

I think by printing date, the DE have the newer codex, but in any meaningful measure of rules, the Wolves have gotten at least some changes and updates in the last 8 years, while the DE have not.

I know you don't have the greatest love for DE, but it's simply misleading to make the claim you did. The DE update was not really that similar to the Tau one (who got all new units, rules, fluff, art, etc), and is in fact much more similar to the SW changes with the new codex.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Except, DE got an update similar to Tau Empire, making SW the oldest Codex in the game.

No, they got a page in White Dwarf which was rolled into the '2nd Printing' of the codex. It doesn't even compare with with the change from Codex Tau to Codex Tau Empire.

Please: didn't we JUST have this argument? Stop it already.

Jes Goodwin is, IMO, the most important sculptor at GW. He designed the eldar and the modern-style (late 1st edition and later) space marines. He's one of the Crown Jewels of GW.

@Polonius: SW getting SM updates "by default" doesn't count as SW getting updates - it counts as SM getting updates.

If you want to use that as your criteria, than DE and SW are at least on the same footing, as both armies got rebalanced "by default" when the 5E Rulebook came out. In which case, *every* army *just* got new rules, so nobody has any basis for complaint!

If the DE / SW situation were analogous, SW would have gotten SW-specific wargear and unit tweaks for 4E, but as far as I know, that never happened.

Thus, I think that DE are up a page or two over the SW, at least, as far as army-specific rules go.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

xedric wrote:Stompa?! Isnt that the ork version of a warhound titan? BIG ork robot in plastic? AWESOME!

A new dp in plastic. Lovely!
What does "rest of the named daemons" mean?

Reported where? Ive always thought the idea behind the necrons were really cool but not liked all the figs. So new range of figs? More plastic to the people!

To bad that the names Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelley doesnt mean anything to me.

Stompa is a Orky Warhound. It looks like a big potato. Tho I'm curious to see if it'll keep the old penile gun...

Isn't the "penile gun" only on the Gargant and Mega-Gargant?

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Polonius: SW getting SM updates "by default" doesn't count as SW getting updates - it counts as SM getting updates.

If you want to use that as your criteria, than DE and SW are at least on the same footing, as both armies got rebalanced "by default" when the 5E Rulebook came out. In which case, *every* army *just* got new rules, so nobody has any basis for complaint!

If the DE / SW situation were analogous, SW would have gotten SW-specific wargear and unit tweaks for 4E, but as far as I know, that never happened.

Thus, I think that DE are up a page or two over the SW, at least, as far as army-specific rules go.

What the DE got was essentially a FAQ, not an updated codex. The Space Wolves got as much (or more) than the DE did simply by GW updating their parent codex.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Polonius: SW getting SM updates "by default" doesn't count as SW getting updates - it counts as SM getting updates.

If you want to use that as your criteria, than DE and SW are at least on the same footing, as both armies got rebalanced "by default" when the 5E Rulebook came out. In which case, *every* army *just* got new rules, so nobody has any basis for complaint!

If the DE / SW situation were analogous, SW would have gotten SW-specific wargear and unit tweaks for 4E, but as far as I know, that never happened.

Thus, I think that DE are up a page or two over the SW, at least, as far as army-specific rules go.

Well, you can say that, but Space Wolves were the only codex to get an updated with the Space Marine book aside from marines themselves. You can't simply wave away the fact that Space Wolves, and no other army, changed with the new Space Marine book. They also gained new units that no other army gains (Ironclads and Redeemers).

Even by your little 5th ed think, Wolves would still be more updated, getting the SM updates as well.

Seriously, can you really claim that Wolves didn't get a pretty invovled update with the new Marine Book?

If you want to say that Wolves are the army with the oldest dedicated rules, then I'd agree with that. But in terms of actually constructive rules updates, I'd consider a tweak of seven units, plus three more additional units, to be a pretty healthy update.

We can argue all day about who is getting screwed most by slow GW printing. Don't worry though, they will start doing 3 whole codex's a year soon. Let's see, 12 armies, divided by 3... so 4 years to get them all done.

That's great news for space wolves and inquisition. At this rate we will be choosing a president again when new codex's roll around for some armies... since you have to assume that there will be a new Space Marine codex in there someplace... and probably a new space marine chapter book.

Alpharius wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Stompa is a Orky Warhound. It looks like a big potato. Tho I'm curious to see if it'll keep the old penile gun...

Isn't the "penile gun" only on the Gargant and Mega-Gargant?

Good question. It's been so long since I've played Epic, I've forgotten the details.

Polonius wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Polonius: SW getting SM updates "by default" doesn't count as SW getting updates - it counts as SM getting updates.

Well, you can say that, but Space Wolves were the only codex to get an updated with the Space Marine book aside from marines themselves. You can't simply wave away the fact that Space Wolves, and no other army, changed with the new Space Marine book.

They also gained new units that no other army gains (Ironclads and Redeemers).

Seriously, can you really claim that Wolves didn't get a pretty invovled update with the new Marine Book?

If you want to say that Wolves are the army with the oldest dedicated rules, then I'd agree with that. But in terms of actually constructive rules updates, I'd consider a tweak of seven units, plus three more additional units, to be a pretty healthy update.

To which, I say, "so what?". None of those changes were made with SW in mind.

How do you figure they got Ironclads & Redeemers? IIRC, the SW Book says "see Dreadnought in C: SM", or "see Land Raider in C: SM". The C: SM book lists Ironclad as "Ironclad Dreadnought", and Redeemer as "LR Redeemer". Those are different entries with completely different names. Therefore, the IC Dread, LS Storm, and LR Redeemer are *NOT* valid for SW use any more than Cantor / Shrike / Calgar are as Captains / Masters.

Why are you claiming that they did? The costs and options changed slightly on many common units that they carried over, but none of the SW-specific stuff was re-written. Frost Blades, Blood Claws, Grey Hunters are all using the same rules as in 3E.

And what are you talking about "three additional units" for? There are NO additional units that the SW got. Not unless you're deilberately mis-reading the SW rules...

The Space Wolf FAQ at:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180145_Space_Wolves_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

It is, unfortunatly, less than clear as to what units Wolves may take. The FAQ states they may take "all different variants and options" and then goes on to specifically disallow the venerable dreadnought option. I can see some interesting RAW debates, but I'd read that as allowing the variants, such as Ironclads and redeemers in. If nothing else, the Wolves got the crusader thanks to, what, codex armageddon? I'm pretty sure that's been a part of the space wolf list since Fourth edition. So while I may be misreading the FAQ, I don't think I'm deliberatly misreading it.

As for the nature of the changes, hey, I agree that none of them were made with wolves in mind. My point is that it doesn't matter, they were made! A space wolf player doesn't think "Oh, space marine predators are different, and since my codex references them I am a third party beneficiary of a rules change." No, they think, "cool, I get new predator rules."

I agree that the lack of dedicated support for wolves is a shame, and as a marquee army in 2nd edition it's a real tragedy. But to say that the rules updates Space Wolves are enjoying aren't "real" updates seems odd to me.

I guess I'd also point out that all the "real" space wolf stuff did at least gain the new drop pods. So, they have that going for them!

I don't see Land Raider Crusaders in Codex Space Wolves, yet we know that they have them. So there's one unit that was added right there. You can go on and on all you want, but it does not change the fact that Dark Eldar did not get a new codex and even GW knows that. It wouldn't have been a 'Second Edition' if it were a new codex, would it? No.

Ghaz wrote:I don't see Land Raider Crusaders in Codex Space Wolves, yet we know that they have them.

That is because the C: Armageddon BT army list specifically said SW, etc. could take 0-1 Crusader to push the model sales beyond BT-only.

Polonius wrote:The Space Wolf FAQ at:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180145_Space_Wolves_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

It is, unfortunatly, less than clear as to what units Wolves may take. The FAQ states they may take "all different variants and options" and then goes on to specifically disallow the venerable dreadnought option. I can see some interesting RAW debates, but I'd read that as allowing the variants, such as Ironclads and redeemers in. If nothing else, the Wolves got the crusader thanks to, what, codex armageddon? I'm pretty sure that's been a part of the space wolf list since Fourth edition. So while I may be misreading the FAQ, I don't think I'm deliberatly misreading it.

As for the nature of the changes, hey, I agree that none of them were made with wolves in mind. My point is that it doesn't matter, they were made! A space wolf player doesn't think "Oh, space marine predators are different, and since my codex references them I am a third party beneficiary of a rules change." No, they think, "cool, I get new predator rules."

I agree that the lack of dedicated support for wolves is a shame, and as a marquee army in 2nd edition it's a real tragedy. But to say that the rules updates Space Wolves are enjoying aren't "real" updates seems odd to me.

I guess I'd also point out that all the "real" space wolf stuff did at least gain the new drop pods. So, they have that going for them!

I have the current SW FAQ. And it is precisely as clear as it needs to be because the SW list says "Dreadnought", and the FAQ confirms that "Dreadnought" is "Dreadnought", not "Ironclad Dreadnought". "Variants and options" means Typhoon MLs on "Land Speeders", or Annihilator option on "Predator".

If you're not deliberately misreading the FAQ to take non-listed vehicles, why can't SW take the C: SM Special Characters? None of them retain the old 3E (4e?) restrictions of "only a CF / UM / whatever army". Therefore, if SW can take "Librarians", they can take "Tigurius". If a SW Runepriest counts as a "Techmarine", then I guess SW can take "Thunderfire Cannon", too.

Either C: SW refers to the specifically-named entries in C: SM, or it doesn't. By RAW, and RAI (by analogy), only the basic Dread, LR, and LS are available. No Ironclad, Redeemer, or Storm are listed in C: SW, so their entries are no more relevant than 4E's Tyrranic War Vets.

No, they think: "Dammit, where's my Codex?"

All of which are wonderful red herrings used to pull your attention, Ghaz, Polonius, away from the fact that DD can't admit he's wrong about the DE book.

BYE

DD can't admit about being wrong about anything.

*whispers* Psst, lets just all say that he is right and get the thread back on track? *whispers*

Hrmph.....I believe DD is right.

*whispers* cmon, guys. *whispers*