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Yeah. It's looks real lucrative!

So, is this yet another idictment of the crappiness of Pre-Paints, or is it just another sign that Wargaming in general is in decline, thus suggesting statements that GW's woes are entirely of it's own making may not be entirely on the money?

I think it's a condemnation of the poor business model of collectible mini's games.

There's no "buy in" other than "I've purchased these, and I still haven't gotten that last one I need to complete the set/win my games". Where as I've put in hours upon hours to get my three armies painted, which if I jettison the game or fail to support it, means that I've wasted all that time. I'm more invested in it.

The higher ups at GW have always resisted adverts and such because they don't want to be a fad that explodes and dies off.

Valhallan42nd wrote:The higher ups at GW have always resisted adverts and such because they don't want to be a fad that explodes and dies off...

...again.

They were more than aware of that happening with LotR, but the risk was worth taking, as the films and assosciated hype would be advertising enough.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I wonder if they'll made Dark Age non-canon and avoid going their with the CBT storyline. Granted, it's only 3076 in CBT, so we're a long way from 3130, but it'll be interesting to see what they decided to change.

BYE

The Jihad is firmly canon now, so they have painted themselves into a corner, besides Stackpole is the key official high plot writer for both the earlier and the later timelines.

I dont care for Wizkids, I do care for CBT though, and wonder where the IP will go. Battletech is a game worth investing in. Topps might continue it as a solitary brand and drop the kiddie crap.

skyth wrote:Hopefully the abomination that is clickie-tech goes away.

The click tech, turnable base with stats is an incredible idea. The ability to tell exactly what's going on with any one model, at a glance, with several different stats all at the same time, and have those stats change based on actions on the battle field is a huge advance in minis. It had the potential to made 40k into a skirmish level game, using the same number of models that are used, since you could tell at a glance exactly what every model had, and what it's current status is. Nolonger would people be forced to memorize complex lists of stats, unit abilities, etc, it was all right there. With click-tech bases 40K could move away from having races with all models having essentially the same stat line (or two), and give each unit it's own stats.

The overly simplified (often to the point of stupidity) rules for the various games that wizkids put out, along with their collectability, and all the screaming little kids these rules attracted ultimately doomed this one for me.

So IMHO click-tech is a bit like putting a jet engine into a Amish wagon.

Imperial wrote:NNNOOOOO!!! My only way of getting superhero miniatures now gone, what will I do?

There's always superfigs.

Oh, you mean licensed minis.

I would be extremely impressed to see a click-base miniature wargame proper... have all of a models stats on the model in such a way that they were both easy to work with and malleable as a model took damage was totally ingenious and needs to be picked up by someone else. Imagine =][=Munda with detailed malleable stats for each figure.

Didn't GW really do one of the first 'click' type bases with Adeptus Mechanicus, or Titan Legions or whatever the game was first called when it was released? I seem to recall those bases having a wheel or something that helped to keep track of void shields or weapons. That was the first time i saw that 'stats on bases' type of thing.

Too bad to hear about them going under. Pirates was neat, but i liked Rocketmen myself. Kitchy and fun.

Was just void shields that you could keep track of.

Wizkids looked like it had been floating off of heroclix sales for years. Ever since MageKnight bombed they released failure after failure and rested on the fallback of the obsessive comic community. Horrorclix was just a tragedy, mechwarrior effectively died a few months after release, Halo Clix never came close to taking off, Crimson skies was some sort of invisible phantom, etc etc.

They had two successful properties and floundered for too long trying to find a replacement when one of them died.

First FASA, then WizKids..... If you are ever involved in a company with Jordan Weisman make sure you start updating your resume the minute he decides to sell or pursue other intersts cause you'll be out of a jobsooner or later.

Two friends are losing their jobs because of this. Not fun....

Never really understood the hype about those horrible prepainted miniatures and as such it was something I didnt even considered part of my hobby.
This anoucement is bad for those who lost their jobs but to me personally nothing they produced will be missed.

Valhallan42nd wrote:I think it's a condemnation of the poor business model of collectible mini's games.

OTOH, the continuing success of Magic, Pokemon, and Yugioh proves that a successful business model can be built around collectible (card) gaming.

The difference being that card gaming is literally a license to print money, whereas minis have costs.

But the D&D minis franchise seems to be doing well enough, thanks to the WotC-Hasbro connection... I think that CMG will have serious legs.

This is sad news to me, not necessarily because I loved their games, but because it takes another option off the table.

I love CBT, but never quite got into MWA/AoD. However, when WizKids managed to piss off its MW fanbase by retiring sets, I was able to pick up several 'mechs for cheap (and now, I guess I can do it even cheaper), and I've had quite a few fun games with these minis using them for CBT with my friends (made an appropriately sized hexagonal grid, printed it out and taped several sheets of paper together...cut hexes out of styrofoam for hills, though that was a bit painful). Sure, not all the 'mechs were CBT canon, but at least there was a variety (we designed our 'mechs anyway and chose the ones we liked most visually) and they were already prepainted in various schemes.

I think the click-based idea had a lot of promised, but sadly was not appropriately targetted (and spurning your fanbase was perhaps the death knell for MW), and I know that prepainted minis do have a place in the hobby (heck, I own two AT-43 armies).

I just see this is as a lost opportunity. Competition in the hobby is a good thing, imho, even if you don't necessarily like the products.

Yes I know of superfigs and have a lot of them, I use them as generic superheroes or villains then slap them onto a modified clix base

Irony:

FLGS just moved 40K and fantasy night together to make room for "collectable minis night."

All the 40K guys have continued to miss the memo and are the only ones who show up on Thursday nights.

NAVARRO wrote:Never really understood the hype about those horrible prepainted miniatures and as such it was something I didnt even considered part of my hobby.
This anoucement is bad for those who lost their jobs but to me personally nothing they produced will be missed.

Are you a comic fan? That was the draw for me, figures based on comic book characters, some of whom have a huge "mythology" attached to them. And as someone who takes a ridiculously long time painting minis, Heroclix is a nice change to actually have a completely painted "Army" on the table. As well, you can get hours of games out of a something that fits into a tackle box that is less than 12" x 8". I used to dismiss Heroclix as a kids game, but once I tried it I got hooked. I am hoping someone continues to produce it, for a little while longer anyway.

pombe wrote:
Competition in the hobby is a good thing, imho, even if you don't necessarily like the products.

Well I totaly agree with that and I'm the first to try to introduce people to the not so mainstream miniatures outhere... but for the modelism hobby sake I dont see wizkids products aiming at the painters communities ... So its not even competition since its in completely diferent fields... Thats why it wont be missed... I cant define wizkids prepainted collectables part of the hobby I live.

whoadirty wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Never really understood the hype about those horrible prepainted miniatures and as such it was something I didnt even considered part of my hobby.
This anoucement is bad for those who lost their jobs but to me personally nothing they produced will be missed.

Are you a comic fan? That was the draw for me, figures based on comic book characters, some of whom have a huge "mythology" attached to them. And as someone who takes a ridiculously long time painting minis, Heroclix is a nice change to actually have a completely painted "Army" on the table. As well, you can get hours of games out of a something that fits into a tackle box that is less than 12" x 8". I used to dismiss Heroclix as a kids game, but once I tried it I got hooked. I am hoping someone continues to produce it, for a little while longer anyway.

I dont consider a game for kids or adults, its not the game that interests me.
Yes I'm a comic fan, Illustrations, art etc.. I'm more a images fan, thats what tickles me most... And I dont see those horrid minis adding anything positive to my imaginary... to be honest I would feel sick to see such good comics or whatever image finishing is such low quality.

I remember people complaining about the Pokemon game. I didn't play it, but it paid the FLGS's rent for about six months. Anything that helps the FLGS stay in business (and the first rule of business is to stay in business) is a good thing.

^ Agreed. The only problem I had with heroclix and the like was the lack of things you could do a turn, only gettting three actions in a 300 point game really annoyed me. Didn't seem superhero enough.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:I think it's a condemnation of the poor business model of collectible mini's games.

OTOH, the continuing success of Magic, Pokemon, and Yugioh proves that a successful business model can be built around collectible (card) gaming.

The difference being that card gaming is literally a license to print money, whereas minis have costs.

Yeah, because all of the designers, developers, artists, and graphic designers who work on those games do it for free.

pombe wrote:This is sad news to me, not necessarily because I loved their games, but because it takes another option off the table.

I love CBT, but never quite got into MWA/AoD. However, when WizKids managed to piss off its MW fanbase by retiring sets, I was able to pick up several 'mechs for cheap (and now, I guess I can do it even cheaper), and I've had quite a few fun games with these minis using them for CBT with my friends (made an appropriately sized hexagonal grid, printed it out and taped several sheets of paper together...cut hexes out of styrofoam for hills, though that was a bit painful). Sure, not all the 'mechs were CBT canon, but at least there was a variety (we designed our 'mechs anyway and chose the ones we liked most visually) and they were already prepainted in various schemes.

I think the click-based idea had a lot of promised, but sadly was not appropriately targetted (and spurning your fanbase was perhaps the death knell for MW), and I know that prepainted minis do have a place in the hobby (heck, I own two AT-43 armies).

I just see this is as a lost opportunity. Competition in the hobby is a good thing, imho, even if you don't necessarily like the products.

You know, the mechs just happen to fit the mighty empires hexs, just saying...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:I think it's a condemnation of the poor business model of collectible mini's games.

OTOH, the continuing success of Magic, Pokemon, and Yugioh proves that a successful business model can be built around collectible (card) gaming.

The difference being that card gaming is literally a license to print money, whereas minis have costs.

But the D&D minis franchise seems to be doing well enough, thanks to the WotC-Hasbro connection... I think that CMG will have serious legs.

CCGs don't take up the rack space that a CMG does. A retailer can have about 8 CCG skus in the same space as one sku for a CMG. More skus to sell = better

And I dont see those horrid minis adding anything positive to my imaginary... to be honest I would feel sick to see such good comics or whatever image finishing is such low quality.

I've seen 40k paint jobs and conversions done much worse than out of the box clix figures.

The difference being that card gaming is literally a license to print money, whereas minis have costs.

I would say that card games have a higher turnover rate than minis games. Practically every property that can be liscenced will have a card game based off of it in quick succession. That card game will then inevitably die. The problem with Minis is that they are a more long term product so you need a good liscence to work off of, whereas with card games you can catch the fad and just laser print a couple hundred thousand cards.

JohnHwangDD wrote:But the D&D minis franchise seems to be doing well enough, thanks to the WotC-Hasbro connection... I think that CMG will have serious legs.

As a miniatures game, D&D is finished. They're cancelling the skirmish ruleset and are restructuring the miniature range specifically for the RPG.

Pariah Press wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:I think it's a condemnation of the poor business model of collectible mini's games.

OTOH, the continuing success of Magic, Pokemon, and Yugioh proves that a successful business model can be built around collectible (card) gaming.

The difference being that card gaming is literally a license to print money, whereas minis have costs.

Yeah, because all of the designers, developers, artists, and graphic designers who work on those games do it for free.

At the volumes that Magic, Pokemon, and Yugioh sell? Yes.

insaniak wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:But the D&D minis franchise seems to be doing well enough, thanks to the WotC-Hasbro connection... I think that CMG will have serious legs.

As a miniatures game, D&D is finished. They're cancelling the skirmish ruleset and are restructuring the miniature range specifically for the RPG.

OTOH, the RPG is much more of a miniatures game now! The 4th edition rules very heavily focus on play on a battle-mat as many character abilities are most useful when tactics can be brought into play: taking advantage of enemies being near each other, shifting enemies (to make the aforementioned advantages), etc.

I don't think WotC really tried to move in on the WHFB space, but their settings don't have a real 'hook' like Warmachine or Hordes does to give people a reason to get attached to the minis. Offering minis now is probably a slam-dunk as they can put out mediocre castings and still do OK sales jsut by being the 'official' company.

My group uses all sorts of sources for minis, including a eBay lot from GodKnowsWhere where we sometimes play 'guess what this is?" on the weirder monsters...