Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

For the sake of the livelyhood of this forum.

LET IT GO.

Well I'm certain you're all cheaters, especially you Deadshane1: just the look of that face on your avatar says it all..what thats an actor?...er never mind...

olympia wrote:The winner admitted that he did not divide his army; he admitted to using smaller bases. There is some dispute about if he actually set 2 troops and 1 hq on the table. Give the facts and the posts of the winner himself, GW be thankful they are not facing litigation.

Blatant lies and not telling the whole story to spin it darkly.

G

I roll well over average with my new dice (from the GW Dice Cube).

They are standard dice, and I just roll well with them. Does make me a cheat? Nope, it makes me a spawny git.

What those articles suggest is quite simple 'can't handle losing? Don't play in a tournament'

As for the accusations of gareth cheating yet again, lets look at it once more.

As for the DoW deployment. He had it ruled the same way in the semis, with out asking a judge, so its best to ask. For those who say, its clear as day you cant do that, then you dont remember last years Ard Boyz. One of the missions forced all DS to set up on the table. This included DPs, Termis, and Chaos Generic Demons. So there is a precedent for screwey missions.

As for the bases. How is it cheating? He had both 40mm and 60mm ones. He asked his opponents which to use.Im sorry but I remeber the main rulebook saying you can use differant sized bases so long as you have consent. His opponents also didnt agree to the smaller ones, they chose them. He said which would you rather me use, not is it ok if I put them on 40mm bases.

As to the Dice one, that is so laughable. To accuse people pf cheating by using bigger dice. I work in a casino. I can tell you a lot about dice

Kilkrazy wrote:

As long as the thread does not become a flamefest or an accusation against specific individuals, I see no reason to lock it.

This thread is another attack on WC made by some disgruntled players who lost to them this year. They are using Gareth as the scapegoat.

G

Darkness wrote:As for the accusations of gareth cheating yet again, lets look at it once more.

As for the DoW deployment. He had it ruled the same way in the semis, with out asking a judge, so its best to ask. For those who say, its clear as day you cant do that, then you dont remember last years Ard Boyz. One of the missions forced all DS to set up on the table. This included DPs, Termis, and Chaos Generic Demons. So there is a precedent for screwey missions.

As for the bases. How is it cheating? He had both 40mm and 60mm ones. He asked his opponents which to use.Im sorry but I remeber the main rulebook saying you can use differant sized bases so long as you have consent. His opponents also didnt agree to the smaller ones, they chose them. He said which would you rather me use, not is it ok if I put them on 40mm bases.

As to the Dice one, that is so laughable. To accuse people pf cheating by using bigger dice. I work in a casino. I can tell you a lot about dice

I can kind of see his point about square edged dice though. As he pointed out, in Craps, you are meant to hit the far end of the table. The squared edges make the dice roll differently, and also one would assume prevent 'cocked' dice. In any Tournament where prizes are up for grabs, cash or not, there should be more standardisation in the random parts. Perhaps the organisers should supply the dice, neatly preventing any accusations of dodgy dice.

olympia wrote: GW be thankful they are not facing litigation.

...for a tournement that is absolutly free with paid employees of GW working it. Not only that, but with scads of prize support included.

Dude, I dont think they OWE anybody a thing. You might be cheated all the way through the tournement, however there's no legal paperwork, no signed agreements....NOTHING LEGAL.

Litigation.....you sound like a jerk.

If you work in a casino then maybe you know about underhanded rolls also and how that works? You probably know there are quite specific rules about what dice you can use and how to roll. Im just a gambling freak not even working there and I been to lots of places that, none that allows it. Not very easy to regulate in amateur toysoldier games though.

And yes, you can actually sue organisers of events and competetions even if they are free, if they are breaking any laws or any parts of any agreement. (I have no idea about the laws or anything about in this specific case tho)

Not knowing a lot about tournaments I'm suprised to learn that you can bring your own dice. Can you imagine a casino doing that? Dice should be issued by the tournament organisers to standardise things.

And controlled dice shots are perfectly possible, even with regular dice. Though it takes practice to do properly, there's more to it than dropping the dice on the table.

Mod mode:

In line with Killkrazy trying to keep the thread open. Lets keep it generic please and not go after specific people. Thats already been done at this point.

Mod mode off

EDIT - Was in the process of replying to a poster before mod request, so I'll save it for another thread.

On the other part of the topic, what can be done about it?

The biggest thing is to ofc. having the organizers responcible for investigating cheating and reporting it in whenever found and the person in question banned from future events.

After more thinking I guess plastic camping cups and standard GW dice for everyone would solve the dicerolling, if that is such a huge problem.

Here is a good anti cheater policy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZmuUGY-sZ0

/Grindah

Kallbrand wrote:
And yes, you can actually sue organisers of events and competetions even if they are free, if they are breaking any laws or any parts of any agreement. (I have no idea about the laws or anything about in this specific case tho)

GW hasnt broken any laws, and fufilled their agreement, even assuming the tournement was rife with cheating. Thats my point.

GW agreed to host a tournement with prize support for the winners, they also agreed to have judges onhand to make rules decisions when needed and approached.

The idea of a lawsuit concerning these allegations of cheating at the 'Ard Boyz is ridiculous at best. Ignorant nerd-rage at worst.

Deadshane1 is right on that. this does not rise to any sort of legal standard here. The thought of a suit in this regard would be interesting, as in interesting in the amount of legal fees you'd pony up up when their attorneys hit you with discovery. Then there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

(you sure you aren't a cheater Deadshane?).

If you arent cheating, you arent trying.

alleged WC motto

What should have happened:

If you don't agree that what your opponent is doing within the rules, ask a judge (even if your opponent says he already asked a judge, you didn't hear it from the judge yourself). Accept the ruling. Don't just say yeah ok and then bitch about it afterwards because you didn't have the balls to ask a judge (and you'd have to not have any balls to be afraid to ask a judeg).

If you don't like the way an opponent is rolling his dice, ask him to roll them instead of dropping them - dropping is not rolling. Hell, bring a large cup with you and ask them to use it and use it yourself.

Base size? If you're getting beat because of the size of the bases your opponent is using, you've got more problems then just base sizes.

Just to sum up: ask a judge or ask a couple of judges to confer and accept the ruling - no bitching. If you're paranoid about the dice, have both of you use the same dice and a cup to roll them. Learn how to play.

budro wrote:
Base size? If you're getting beat because of the size of the bases your opponent is using, you've got more problems then just base sizes.

.

Amen brother, go tell it on the mountain!

Green Blow Fly wrote:

They are using Gareth as the scapegoat.

G

Kinda like how he tried to use the judge as his scapegoat?

Pot, meet kettle

Base size? If you're getting beat because of the size of the bases your opponent is using, you've got more problems then just base sizes.

Well, this will not turn the game in itself but if you add some other cheating stuff to the mix this could be a game breaker.
Say you have the smaller bases, combine that with some creative measuring and top it off with loaded dice then it becomes a problem.

/Grindah

I hope this convinces people to sign up for the GWUS community boards and to spam requests for a standardized tournament judging test. I'm still surprised GW doesn't have this. It should have at least 50 questions inspired by a document such as yakface's INAT or any other such writeup that has many ambiguous rules.

Green Blow Fly wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

As long as the thread does not become a flamefest or an accusation against specific individuals, I see no reason to lock it.

This thread is another attack on WC made by some disgruntled players who lost to them this year. They are using Gareth as the scapegoat.

G

Yes because there is no legit discussion about this. All WC members are perfect little angels and would never cheat.

Abusing basesizes can be crippling if used in the right conditions, think spirithosts in Fantasy back when it was legal to have how large bases you wanted.

And some pepole still dont understand underhanded dice throws, ITS NOT DROPPING THEM. Hell, if that was the case anyone would figure it out instantly.. Its a special way to roll your dice, pretty much like fake shuffling cards. Search the net for it.

yeah,
bigdice drops, base sizes and dodgy codex 'rulings' are all valid topics for discussion, I'm glad I've learned about them!
No way would i have accepted the smaller bases sizes?

budro wrote:Base size? If you're getting beat because of the size of the bases your opponent is using, you've got more problems then just base sizes.

Darkness wrote:As for the bases. How is it cheating? He had both 40mm and 60mm ones. He asked his opponents which to use....

Why was he carrying two sizes of base? if he had the 60mm bases he should have used them?

Green Blow Fly wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

As long as the thread does not become a flamefest or an accusation against specific individuals, I see no reason to lock it.

This thread is another attack on WC made by some disgruntled players who lost to them this year. They are using Gareth as the scapegoat.

G

This is the first time I saw they guys name... I think your trying to get the thread locked??? Funny that you being in the Wreaking Crew...


PaniC...

Come to the Friendly Side of Gaming.

Is much more fun, and does not induce raised blood pressure.

Let the Wrecking Crew have their own little games where they can high five each other to their hearts content.

As far as dice goes....just watch for it and ask your opponent to make a full throw and bounce off of something. Craps tables have rules and mechanisms to ensure random results. Sure, there are people who swear they can make a controlled throw in the casino, but all we know for sure is they are making a lot of money selling books.

My FLGS sells a great little dice corral to roll dice in, and I find that using that evens things out nicely. It's almost impossible to roll without bouncing dice off an edge.

LOL....

So...if you win a tournament - you are a cheater....

If your dice roll well - you are a cheater.....

If you are part of the WC - you are a cheater.....

If you win any other awards...you obviously had to cheat or collude to get it...

If you are Deadshane - then you are DEFINATELY a cheater

And GW is the head colluder - so let's sue them...

Welcome to Peyton Place!

To be honest, after Wrecking Crews Pro/Celeb back slapping contest on these very boards, I can see why people don't like them.

My name is Darrell Allen. I was at the 'Ardboyz. And I pulled dead last. I used small dice. That must be why I lost! I demand GW host a re-tourney! I should have won!

In all seriousness, if I see an opponent rolling in a way that is a little suspect, I will tolerate it for a bit. Then I will simply ask that he roll them like a man and make sure they bounce. Usually that is enough. If it continues, I tell him that if they do not bounce at least once, I will not accept the results. Sometimes I break out the box lid for rolling in. But this is rarely a problem that I have encountered. But I AM 6'8" and I DO start each game by devouring a small child, so maybe that has something to do with it?