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ubermosher wrote:I'm wondering if plastic IG stormtroopers will be part of a Planetstrike release

That would make a lot of sense and help to extend the initial IG release window. I sure hope so!

I'm really kind of hoping for those sexy Eldar sport Jetbikes.
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Defiler wrote:Jess Goodwin himself has stated via podcast (as of 2-3 months ago) that he was halfway through the plastics process, and it's been whispered that the book has been done for a while now - redone because of a Jervis veto.

I can't believe for a second they would go through the whole process of finishing the line and not releasing them.

I'm certain Dark Eldar is still coming, just the time is unknown.

I believe the book redo has been stated previously, and Jes' comments were the first public admission that any official work was being done on them in quite some time.

I can - if the line and book aren't up to snuff, it's better to deal with other, hotter releases. Like Planetstrike, which was rumored for 2008 and appears to have been pushed to 2009. There's definitely a pecking order that changes, and Apoc seems to have moved up past Planetstrike, which bumps Dark Eldar.

One word: "Demiurg".
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NecronLord3 wrote:I think GW would be smart to release more boxed sets like the Assault on Black Reach box.
Releasing the DE Vs. another army would IMO, go along way toward making the DE more profitable for GW. If it were up to me, I would try to put at least one of these out each year.

I don't think GW can afford to do multiple AoBR sets per edition, as they don't make any money on them compared to other sets. Though I really would like to see an all-GEQ starter set.
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Hellfury wrote:GW already stated quite firmly that if an army has a codex, it will always have a codex.

It simply makes no business sense whatsoever to even a laymen to spend money on development, and not at least offer the product to the public to try and recoup the cost of production and development.

Besides, everyone jumps on the new army bandwagon every release,

DE would always have their 3E Codex...

It does, if other product would recoup costs faster.

Dark Eldar was *the* new army for 3E.
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redstripe wrote:Are we sure that John isn't the source of these rumors?

Quite.

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AgeOfEgos wrote:Are the tiles for Space Hulk being made into 3D plastic? Please say yes .

After the Warhammer Mighty Empire tiles, I'd say yes.
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His Master's Voice wrote:if they can sell Stompas, they can sell a new (in effect) army that generates a lot of hype.

The difference is that Stompas are all-new, without any negative history or baggage.

Why would GW bring back Heroquest when they didn't produce it? That was MB, licensed out. I don't think GW can touch it.

I could believe Warhammer Quest more than Heroquest.

And a new Space Hulk is great!

One of the four "P"s of marketing is Product.

It's definitely possible that they put DE on ice. It does happen. But in this case I think it's more likely that they're still on the docket.

Actually the Land Raider got shelfed for quite some time before the deemed the time fit for a release.

I hope Tau gets some Walkers, those would be sweet.

I like Walkers.

Hellfury wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:GW already stated quite firmly that if an army has a codex, it will always have a codex.

DE would always have their 3E Codex...

Yeah, it was predictable for someone to make that remark.

Hellfury wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:It simply makes no business sense whatsoever to even a laymen to spend money on development, and not at least offer the product to the public to try and recoup the cost of production and development.

It does, if other product would recoup costs faster.

I am not talking about another product taking its place, which is always possible. I am talking about simple deletion of development already done on a product most of us realize will sell.

Hellfury wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Besides, everyone jumps on the new army bandwagon every release,

Dark Eldar was *the* new army for 3E.

John, you're clearly just being contrary for the sake of it.

You can't tell me with a straight face that if GW were to release 3 new plastic kits for DE tomorrow, that there wouldn't suddenly be tons of new DE players. And thats without even mentioning a codex.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Nov being SM of some sort is probably Wolfs, which are still on their 3E Codex and desperately in need of a rules update. Plus, GW can recut the bitz and sell out.

I know for a fact that the Space Wolves are not getting a recut of their old bits. Rather, they are getting an all new chapter upgrade sprue (much like Black Templars or Dark Angels). It will feature tons of wolf bits, backpacks, and a unique wolf terminator body, as well.

Grubsnik wrote:Well, the translation is fairly...idiosyncratic...to say the least, so god alone (or anyone who speaks Spanish) knows what it meant to say.

Yup, the Almighty and roughly 330 to 350 million other people.

@Hellfury:

GW never promised that they'd update Codices (e.g. Spaz Marinz HURR!), only that they wouldn't withdraw them from legal play (e.g. LatD, Kroot Mercs). There is a *big* difference between those two extremes, and the DE are doing an outstanding job of illustrating it.

Development is a sunk cost. The only question is whether it makes sense for GW to throw more money at release production and give DE the release window, or to push something else into production and give *that* the release window. Developed product gets flushed down the toilet all the time because sometimes it just costs too much to move into production. If you check the automotive industry, you're going to see a *lot* of this happening over the next couple years, as multi-million dollar (actually, multi-BILLION dollar) projects that were started a couple years ago simply get the axe due to the soft economy. Hell, when you see a few nameplates disappear (e.g. Saturn, Hummer) in the next 2 or 3 years, that's *really* going to drive home the point about sunk costs.

Anyhow, if the DE work is done for 5E, then that work is usable for the next 3+ years, possibly then next 8 years if 6E doesn't change too radically from 5E. So we could see the DE pop up again, assuming that GW is desperate to monetize the DE development effort that they're sitting on. But as I initially noted, the whole thing doesn't make too much sense. It would have made more sense to scrap the DE project before engaging Jes, and focus on Apoc instead, rather than pushing DE to completion and then stopping.

If GW were to release 3 new DE kits right now, what would they be? They won't be Warriors, Raiders, or Jetbikes, as they're already plastic and those molds aren't yet paid for. So let's assume Wyches (because they can be Troops), Ravager (requiring a single sprue), and a plastic Archon (for completeness). OK, it's a nice "Wave 2" release, but you say there won't be a Codex? I think it falls flat, because players would still have to special order the models (and Codex), as GW doesn't stock DE in their stores. But really, your scenario doesn't make sense. Without a *major* push tied to a full Codex release, it simply doesn't make sense to release DE models.

Quite frankly, the only way to release DE "properly" is to tie it to the starter box of a new edition.

LittleLeadMen wrote:I know for a fact that the Space Wolves are not getting a recut of their old bits. Rather, they are getting an all new chapter upgrade sprue (much like Black Templars or Dark Angels). It will feature tons of wolf bits, backpacks, and a unique wolf terminator body, as well.

So it's an expansion of the existing bitz sprue to be more like the BT sprue? Cool, even better!

Dexy wrote:I want to play Gentleman of the Ring. Is this some kind of posh boxing minitures game?

I hope so. Better that than Gentlemen of the Ringpiece.

Rumoured 2010 release for revised Tau would pretty much fit the previous pattern of releasing Tau codexes half-way through the life cycle.

Part of me welcomes a re-issue of Space Hulk since it is such a good game.

Another part of me worries they will change the entire game and either screw up the rules or invalidate my entire three set collection by making new size corridors and termies.

OTOH, there's a good chance they would make one piece Termies on 25mm bases to stop people using them in 40K for cheap.

Woot!!!!! Space Hulk, I hope it's the first edition re-released not the second.

It looks like Dark Eldar are being delayed at this point rather than dropped. Dark Eldar for 2011? Someone should run a book on this.

@ Killkrazy: You can still use the new models with your old rulebook. I'll probably base mine on Bevelled bases regardless.

More likely Space Hulk will be the second edition.

(I have two first edition boxes and a Deathwing box.)

Some of the optional rules were good. The rest (psionics etc.) were rubbish intended to sell more models.

Kilkrazy wrote:More likely Space Hulk will be the second edition.

(I have two first edition boxes and a Deathwing box.)

Some of the optional rules were good. The rest (psionics etc.) were rubbish intended to sell more models.

Most likely it's a completely new edition.

With Talisman they went back to the best edition rather than the last if they do that with Space Hulk they'll re-release first edition.

Please oh please let their be a Tau make over on the horizon.

Platuan4th wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:More likely Space Hulk will be the second edition.

(I have two first edition boxes and a Deathwing box.)

Some of the optional rules were good. The rest (psionics etc.) were rubbish intended to sell more models.

Most likely it's a completely new edition.

Please let this be true!

Of course, please let it be a "best of all possible editions" edition.

Please?

Has anyone heard anything from any of the big rumor sources on this yet?

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Hellfury:
If GW were to release 3 new DE kits right now, what would they be? They won't be Warriors, Raiders, or Jetbikes, as they're already plastic and those molds aren't yet paid for. So let's assume Wyches (because they can be Troops), Ravager (requiring a single sprue), and a plastic Archon (for completeness). OK, it's a nice "Wave 2" release, but you say there won't be a Codex? I think it falls flat, because players would still have to special order the models (and Codex), as GW doesn't stock DE in their stores. But really, your scenario doesn't make sense. Without a *major* push tied to a full Codex release, it simply doesn't make sense to release DE models.

What they would be and whether or not it would make sense for GW to do is nowhere within the vicinity of the point he was making. Of course it doesn't make sense. Of course it won't happen. What the models would be is irrelevant. The point is if 3 different new DE models boxes were on shelves tomorrow, there would be tons of new DE players... Hell, I bet if the only thing they released was new warriors, we'd still see a massive boom in new DE players. And that's without mention of a new codex...

Quite frankly, the only way to release DE "properly" is to tie it to the starter box of a new edition.

Fair to say. But I think releasing them with a supplement like Planetstrike would be no less effective. Personally, I think it would be naive of GW to think that DE wouldn't be able to stand alone upon release. Just print some new artwork in White Dwarf and pass around pics of the new minis. Get people salivating over them for a few months first.

"Gentlemen of the Ring" HA HA!!

2010 my BA will get the real deal. About time.

I don't buy that DE got a ton of stuff and it's just going to sit on the shelf. That would have been shut down long before the models were made.

Well I for one am up for a raid on this secret warehouse thats stocked to the rafters with New Dark Eldar models and Codecies. Who's with me!

JohnHwangDD wrote:Quite frankly, the only way to release DE "properly" is to tie it to the starter box of a new edition.

Wait, wait. Why wouldn't some decent marketing tied with the release of a new codex and new, good models not be a way to release DE "properly"?

Personally, I'm sort of getting a little excited about the possibility of a DE release, even if it ends up being delayed for a couple years. As long as it ends up being sweet, I'm cool. I know, that is setting the bar kind of high though.


But really, a poor track record with DE in the past is no reason they can't do very well in the future, as long as they fix the problems that they had (crappy models, crappy codex) and market them well before, during, and after their release. And army, even and army like DE, with good models and good codex is a whole different animal really. Plus, once they get a new release, I'm sure GW stores will start carrying them again, and the special order only crap will be a thing of the past.


Das Wort:
Das Niveau

It will be interesting to see how they adjust to the upsizing of the bases of terminators in a new space hulk.

I know I'd like to use termies from the SM boxes in larger SH games.

Also plastic tiles would be very nice to have.

Also empire getting a 3rd wave (they had a whole pile f minis released 1-2 years ago, hellblaster, fanatics etc)...

I'd like to see the O&G get some 2nd wave lovin in WHFB, some of the models are really starting to struggle.

Archonate wrote:Hell, I bet if the only thing they released was new warriors, we'd still see a massive boom in new DE players. And that's without mention of a new codex...

Why do you and Hellfury think this? What's changed since the last time DE were on the shelves with a full line of models along with being the featured army in the starter set? Is just pent-up demand from not being on the shelves? Help explain, please.

Archonate wrote:But I think releasing them with a supplement like Planetstrike would be no less effective. Personally, I think it would be naive of GW to think that DE wouldn't be able to stand alone upon release. Just print some new artwork in White Dwarf and pass around pics of the new minis. Get people salivating over them for a few months first.

If GW felt this way, they wouldn't have cancelled / delayed the DE release.

That's why I'm suggesting a starter re-release. Starters capture new players who don't have any experience with DE, so they aren't going to think "oh, Emo Elves again..." and then walk away.

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Hordini wrote:Why wouldn't some decent marketing tied with the release of a new codex and new, good models not be a way to release DE "properly"?

DE already has some very well-entrenched impressions within the 40k community that would need to be redone if DE are to sell in any kind of numbers. It's not like Tau coming in with a clean sheet to make first impressions. It's first needing to reset impressions and then to make new impressions. Changing people's first impressions is *much* harder than making brand new impressions.

Hordini wrote:But really, a poor track record with DE in the past is no reason they can't do very well in the future, as long as they fix the problems that they had (crappy models, crappy codex) and market them well before, during, and after their release. Plus, once they get a new release, I'm sure GW stores will start carrying them again, and the special order only crap will be a thing of the past.

The difference is that it probably would costs GW 3 times the effort to remarket DE compared to something new, which itself is probaby 3 times the effort of something well-established and iconic like Guard / SM / Eldar. Turning the crank is easy, makes money, so what's GW going to do?

I dont play Dark Eldar, but I would certainly like to see them released in the future (this year would be nice, but wishful thinking). As mentioned, they are still on their 3E codex and desperately need some love. I also agree that there are other races that need fixing, but DE have nothing going for them with the release of all the new books, like SM and Orkz.

I think with GWs clever marketing schemes and ability to build hype around something, getting some more rumours floating around with some definitive answers as to what's going to be included in the DE list and finally some pictures of new models (as well as artwork), they would definitely be able to offload all the DE they need when theyre released.

I'm overjoyed to hear about Space Hulk though... Specialist Games are awesome

BloodofOrks wrote:Please oh please let their be a Tau make over on the horizon.

With Walkers.

Did I mention I like Walkers?

Dark Eldar Warriors would be welcome. There's a decently sized community that buys outside it's selected armies in order to put something different on the painting table. I believe we've all done this, and a reasonably priced box (same tag as orks, as it now seems to be the norm) would surely catch a player's eye. Be it for bits and whatnots.

But saying that DE are doomed on the sole reason of them being DE is something I don't quite get - if anything at all (I know this is old) they'd perform as well or better than the Wood Elves.

Also, comparing a "scrapped" project like this to a scrapped project in the auto industry is comparing apples and oranges.

Firstly, if the kits are done, or at least the greens, all they need is money to further the investment into the plastic molds - I can understand that they might need to finance this, thus they could bring out (for example) Space Wolves first in order to feel economically secure.

Their uncertainty might be based on the fact that they don't know for sure what costumer base the DE might appeal to, thus they aren't so certain it'll generate the expected income in x time.

But I sincerely doubt that if they did not want to release the DE they'd wait after their chief sculptor finished his work and appareantly undergoing a revision of a "finished" book (the one Jervis is said to have turned down) to consider it. It doesn't make any sense and GW isn't in a position where it can afford this.

And as said before, the translation is literal. The word descarded doesn't have a different meaning, in portuguese or spanish, so without further explanation of what it meant it stays as stated. Meaning that unless the person who said it comes forward and explains what he meant, it stands as "the release has been discarded".

Which, given what I said, would be rather odd.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Archonate wrote:Hell, I bet if the only thing they released was new warriors, we'd still see a massive boom in new DE players. And that's without mention of a new codex...

Why do you and Hellfury think this? What's changed since the last time DE were on the shelves with a full line of models along with being the featured army in the starter set? Is just pent-up demand from not being on the shelves? Help explain, please.

Because the 3 huge reasons why nobody plays them, (Crappy models, crappy codex, lack of attention from GW), will no longer be problems with a new release. There are crowds willing to buy up a DE army when those 3 problems are addressed.
Just look at the ENORMOUS popularity difference between 2nd and 3rd edition Tyranids and you'll understand what better models, better codex and more attention from GW can do for an army. It's the exact same situation.
I like what Destrado said:

saying that DE are doomed on the sole reason of them being DE is something I don't quite get

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to convey, but it seems to me that this is exactly what you're doing.

Wood elves were total gak before they got redone and I never saw them played. I don't know the actual numbers of players though.

When the Woodies came back they came back huge. If the DE get the wood elf treatment, which is what I have heard many times, then the awesome models and kits will bring them into the limlight. They will become popular. Couple that with a good codex and you have a winner. If they have gone to the trouble of letting their top guy (Jes) spend time designing them, then that tells me as a layperson they are going to go through with it.

If they have really hot stuff, they want to release it as the models sell the game.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Hellfury:
If GW were to release 3 new DE kits right now, what would they be? They won't be Warriors, Raiders, or Jetbikes, as they're already plastic and those molds aren't yet paid for. So let's assume Wyches (because they can be Troops), Ravager (requiring a single sprue), and a plastic Archon (for completeness). OK, it's a nice "Wave 2" release, but you say there won't be a Codex? I think it falls flat, because players would still have to special order the models (and Codex), as GW doesn't stock DE in their stores. But really, your scenario doesn't make sense. Without a *major* push tied to a full Codex release, it simply doesn't make sense to release DE models.

Archonate wrote:Hell, I bet if the only thing they released was new warriors, we'd still see a massive boom in new DE players. And that's without mention of a new codex...

Why do you and Hellfury think this? What's changed since the last time DE were on the shelves with a full line of models along with being the featured army in the starter set? Is just pent-up demand from not being on the shelves? Help explain, please.