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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/22 23:33:59
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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But even so, it was still a racist request. Not exactly KKK style racism or one bred out of bizarre hatred, but one borne out of sheer ignorance. It doesn't make your Nan a bad person in this instance, because as you say, she is from a different time. This I believe is whats called 'institutional' racism. It's still far from right, but it is understandable, if not excusable. I would say that the staff may have been a little heavy handed in telling her to stop being racist, and there are definitely better ways to go about it!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/22 23:34:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/22 23:44:58
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Major
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JD21290 wrote:doc, as soon as something goes wrong people tend to scream racism to get things going thier way, ive seen this alot now. sorry, but i dont want more immigrants in this country. local pubs and clubs are being torn down to accomodate more housing for more people, which in turn means more traffic. and in london thanks to that there is now congestion charges. going back 40+ years here it was alot different, my nan was recently brought into a hospital for a hip operation. she had a black nurse tending to her at the time. she felt uncomfortable about this as she was not used to it, she asked for another nurse and was simply told to stop being racist about it. now, she has grown up all her life around white people, so having a black nurse was a shock to her. and being branded racist for that is a joke. she was brought up how she was, people cannot expect someone to change thier views over night because they are told so. She didnt want to assisted by a nurse for no reason other than the colour of her skin. Sounds like the very definition of the word Racist to me. As MDK said it's institutional racism but be under no illusion its still racism and there is no justification for it, nor should it be tolerated. JD21290 wrote: she was brought up to call a spade a spade. That's quite possibly the most inappropriate phrase you could have used in this context!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/22 23:46:16
"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/22 23:46:01
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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This line of discussion is so going to get some alerts going.
JD21290's grandmother can be left out of the discussion about the BNP without risk of affecting the basic direction of argument.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/22 23:47:01
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)
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Lucious, if you have someone you dont trust or are not familiar with around you then you wouldnt be happy would you?
people are brought up differently now, PC is pretty much stamped into people now a days.
for example, alot of immagrants records do not carry over with them when they enter this country, in doing so you can be letting rapists or killers work in schools as teachers.
even officials have no idea how many illegals are over here, so all they are doing is letting a threat into the country.
as i can see, alot of people here do stand by PC now.
and doc, going back to what we were talking about earlier, a friend of mine was walking home and got mugged, 8 africans stamped and kicked him while he was on the floor while calling him a white bastard and other things, this was simply classed as an assult.
now, if that had been the other way around it would have been considered a racist assult.
if anyone has any problems with my views then feel free to say so.
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Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/22 23:47:57
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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Polonius wrote:As long as you integrate immigrants into your culture, you're stronger for it in the end. The American Melting pot isn't the best analogy, but part of our patriotism and nationalism is to compensate for not having a native National Culture. We're only American's because we live in America.
This is very true. In US schools the flag is flown. Take a look at the Patriot Guard too as good example. Now as said above sometimes the Americans go a bit too far with flag flying but....
Over here until recently if the Union Flag was flown, or heaven forbid the Cross of St George, you were under threat of being accused of racism. Politically correct doctrinarians even went as far as to try and stop the British Legion (our equivalent to the Veterans Assiociation) from meeting at war memorials and flying flags or holding ceremonies in uniform. To them it was remembrance, to some it was racism and imperialism.
There has been a sea change in government policy over the last two years, flags are being flown, partly in responce to problems over the unpopularity of the Iraq war. So councils that attempt to block the Legion are being spoken with and the veterans are allowed to commemorate in peace.
This is just an example. The main problem is that 'equal opportunities and 'equality and diversity' dogmas have encouraged non integration over the last ten years. immigrants are being encouraged to live in Britian but not encouraged to integrate. The reason for this was in order to reseed the demographics and therefore change the nations political balance, aghain there has been a sea change in the Uk when after the london bombings in 2005 and later Glasgow bombings even the government had to admit that to some an invitation to live in the UK under their own culture meant an invitation to impose their culture on others. Again few were willing to point this out as anyone who did so, at least prior to ther London bombings was simply labelled a racist and sidelined. Eventually the government came to realise that multi-culturalism doesnt work, or more accurately could no longer hoodwink the populace into beliving that it does, and is moving to 'anglicise' the immigrant populace. However there are questionable methods by which it is being done, some pointed to in LuciusAR's thread of a couple of days back, and questions of its timing to show that the original policy of changing the political climate by changing the demographics is still a major policy goal.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/22 23:48:56
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)
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That's quite possibly the most inappropriate phrase you could have used in this context!
sorry, ill vet everything 1st.
so now the names of a playing card are no longer allowed?
the term i use is "a spade a spade and a heart a heart"
and this is the thing i am talking about, now a simple phrase is an issue.
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Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/22 23:52:46
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)
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people these days are starting to get scared to say anything incase it causes offence to someone.
now, due to alot of incidents more and more people are starting to change thier views, in which the BNP are gaining more and more peoples trust as they are the only ones wanting to change things, even if it is to the extreme.
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Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/22 23:57:15
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Major
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JD21290 at the request of the Mods I'm not going to carry on this conversation, which is just as well as your last comment, accusing immigrants of being rapists or serial killers (becuae a native has never killed or raped anyone), really does not deserved to be dignified with a response. Words fail me. Can we please get back on topic now I really dont want this be locked. BTW for the record Spade is a derogitory word for a black person. Im not saying you purposfully used it in this manner its just that given the topic its was rather inapropriate.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2009/02/23 00:55:30
"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 00:02:39
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)
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If that is the wish of the MOD's then ill leave it aswell.
and BTW, i have never used the word "spade" as a shortcut or simple term for a black person.
and before someone decides to dive in here and call me a racist, feel free to, and i will laugh and possibly call you a dick.
my GF is not english for a start, so if i was, why would i get this involved with someone?
im working gate duty atm, and 5 of the people i work with are black (one chinese aswell)
now, if i was a racist im sure i would have said something by now.
i just dislike the whole immagration system at the moment and how its casuing the country to slide.
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Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 00:08:45
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Committed Chaos Cult Marine
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Did he try to push it as a hate crime during the report. Yo have to do that some times. Here in the USA. When a cop goes off on a member of another race, it usually had to take some pushing to get it classed as such. Either way it's a racist attack. being PC is a good thing in my opinion. Illegas are not the main source of rapists or killers, it's unfair to claim they may be. The idea that "you may be letting rapists and killers work as teachers" Implies that somebody Entered the country illegally, worked thier way up to becoming a teacher, just to rape and murder children is at best a bad joke. As for the vid, they make the same arguments i hear when one group blames another. They are taking our jobs, they are dirty, violent, they take more pride in their cars, they want our women, they are going to outnumber us. The funniest part was the "Jews got plastic and dentestry work in concentration camps, They said 6 million died to make the Germans feel guilty."
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And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 00:10:10
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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I don't know much (or anything really), but is Immigration between British Commonwealth nations a right, or are Commonwealth subjects (citizens?) just sent to the front of the line?
How can British Citizenship be earned? If you are born there, are you a British Citizen, or do you have to be born of citizens or take your own naturalization to be a citizen?
I think there are many reasons immigration works better in the US than it would in the UK. We have a lot more room, for starters. We also have more social mobility, and the myth of almost unlimited social mobility. Immigrants in general have a pretty easy time integrating nicely in a generation or two (look at our current president), while IIRC British society is still much more class conscious.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 00:12:03
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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Ahtman wrote:
Orlanth wrote:India and Pakistan hold a semi hostile border
That is a bit of an understatement now isn't it.
Actually no, the shelling 'helps' in fact. Both sides blow of steam this way, and the 'artillery duels are often years apart. it is rather odd but it works. So odd in fact The Onion did a satire on it.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/volatile_india_pakistan_standoff
Ahtman wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Calling an Indian a "Paki" is like calling an Israeli Jew a "rag head".
In the US that term isn't used for Jews but Arabs. We have other exciting names for Jews.
I was explaining to you the irony, and why it was doubly offensive. I could of said Calling an Indian a "Paki" is like calling an Arab a "yid'..
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 00:12:30
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)
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So, its now fine to let people into the country without checking them 1st?
all i was stating is that if they are letting people into the country, check them 1st.
i dont have a problem with immagrants as such, just illegals as they bypass everything, including checks, and it raises the question of why not come into england normally?
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Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 00:26:29
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Major
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I don't think anyone is denying that Illegal immigration is an issue however it's effects have been vastly exadurated by a right wing media with an axe to grind and cheap points to score. I'm often reminded of that fantastic Simpsons episode where mayor Quimby launches a Proposition against illegal immigrants in order to distract the people from high taxes caused by his own incompetance. They are cheap target and going after them panders to the base instincts of the mob. An Illegal immigrant cannot be definition claim benefits or secure legal employment so the idea that they are draining the economy just doesn’t hold up. If they are coming her with the purpose of committing crime then yes we should do all we can to stop them. My objection it the way that the issue of illegal immigrants has been lumped in with immigration in general when they are totally separate issues. We are not just letting anyone in as the Rags would have us believe. The process of becoming a British citizen or even gaining a temp work permit is long, complex and expensive. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying, ill-informed or a combination of the 2. The revolting campaign against refugees that the Daily mail has been engaging in for some time is beyond contempt.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/02/23 01:01:48
"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 01:15:56
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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It's sad, but the economic downturn is inevitably going to lead to more people turning to extremism of various kinds- extreme right or left wing policies, extreme religious views, extreme stances against immigration...
We're all middle of the road until the gak hits the fan.
I'm not a big fan of the BNP, but I can easily see how they could gain power. A lot of it, to me, has to do with the class divides in the UK. I think the closest we have to them is Sinn Féin, but even they aren't as extreme any more, in the South at least.
On immigration in Europe: One thing Ireland has going for it is that we didn't do much slaving back in the day. There's a lot less baggage. That said, we're so overexposed to american culture that people over here are inheriting attitudes based on american history rather than irish. It's interesting.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 01:21:28
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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On the subject of 'immygrunts done take all our jobs innit'..
Well, sadly, Britain appeals as a country to settle in because it is rich (Well, it was until a few months ago  ) and we got those Riches via the Empire....
One could say the boot is simply on the other foot, and the pendulum has now swung our way.
THe thing that makes me grin though is when our craftsmen complain about Polish labour 'undercutting' them.
Not being funny, but if he can do it for £10 less an hour, and be finished 3 days earlier, why the hell can't a Brit do it? Oh, of course, because you're a greedy little chancer!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 01:56:21
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Major
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
THe thing that makes me grin though is when our craftsmen complain about Polish labour 'undercutting' them.
Not being funny, but if he can do it for £10 less an hour, and be finished 3 days earlier, why the hell can't a Brit do it? Oh, of course, because you're a greedy little chancer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSZdb2buU_c
Sorry it appears that embedding has been disabled on the vid above but its well worth watching. Somes it all up quite nicley.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/23 02:00:17
"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 02:05:52
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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The real problem is being missed. discrimination in the public sector.
Because of government quotas encourageing "equality" it can be difficult for some to find work because of their race.
In fact I have seen this first hand, persons prevented from being policemen repeartedly, eventually he was quietly told that at the time they were 'not recruiting whites to encourage more diversity'.
I have similar reports from persons who wanted to join the armed services and the ambulance service. Though in the case of the armed service discrimination is handled differently. Because selection is handled over several criteria it is possible to fail a soldier from an unwanted background (read white) if they fail any criteria while accepting a soldier from another if he passed only some.
You might not want to see this and scream hysteria, but 'positive discrimination' (sic) is alive and well. It is because of this being done by the front door some businesses feel confident in recruiting exclusively from abroad.
Anyway many businesses are now steering away from hiring eastern Europeans, particularly in industries working offsite with expensive equipment. The number of 'I turned around and it was gone' stories got so frequent all but the wooly liberals could see the trend.
Stereotyping, yes sadly it is, but after several transport company managers (some I know personally, others from second hand experience) swear blind that the statistical risk of theft of stock rises severalfold when the driver is eastern European they start to be hesitant of the risks, accusations of discrimination notwithstanding.
I should not have to add the caveat that it is a minority of eastern European gangs tarnishing the good name of others, but I will do so anyway to nip any hysterical accusations of racism in the bud.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/02/23 02:15:59
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 02:54:56
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Committed Chaos Cult Marine
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The number of 'I turned around and it was gone' stories got so frequent all but the wooly liberals could see the trend. Add eastern europeans to the list of "Others" that take Our jobs and steal everything. I found this little tid bit on the net "Cheshire Police force has more than 2,200 officers and 21 are minorities or from another country"
"In fact I have seen this first hand, persons prevented from being policemen repeartedly, eventually he was quietly told that at the time they were 'not recruiting whites to encourage more diversity'.
I have similar reports from persons who wanted to join the armed services and the ambulance service." It seem's that the nummer of non white cops in England is 10 out of 1000. If your friend was one of the few who didn't get hired out of the may that did, i'm sure it had more to do than with his color. your making it sound like it is 10 native born white males tp 1000 others.
As for the Military thing, one could argue that they are quicker to accept minorities to fill up the front lines, as was done in the USA's past. I doubt this is the case either. From what I've seen first hand, The british military is pretty fair in the way it works. (The number of foreign and Commonwealth citizens joining the British army total about 6,700. 7% of the total.)
(Note I did not accuse you of being a racist at all). 7% military and 10 out of 1000 is in no way a bias towards whites.
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And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 03:17:04
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Kilkrazy wrote:This line of discussion is so going to get some alerts going.
JD21290's grandmother can be left out of the discussion about the BNP without risk of affecting the basic direction of argument.
I'm not sure that's true. Maybe because it's more likely to lead to a flame war she could be left out of the discussion, but I think it's a pretty good insight into the bizarre kinds of rationalisations that go on to justify racist thought.
His grandmother doesn't want a black nurse. He says that's because she's old and shouldn't be expected to change. I don't really expect her to change, I doubt many would, but that doesn't mean she isn't racist. So you've got JD worried about his nan being told she's racist, and having no concern at all for the nurse who was just trying to do her job before this lady told her she didn't want to be around her because she's black.
Later on LuciusAR makes a joke about using the spade is a spade phrase, because of the obvious racial history of the term. JD, ignoring the very obvious context and humour, then complains about the oppression of not being able to use the name of a playing card.
And that's what the BNP is all about. Bizarre hyper-sensitivity about any possible concession, while maintaining absolute ignorance about any harm inflicted on ethnic minorities. Why? Probably a lot reasons. Because if it's their fault then it isn't my fault. Because family is right and that's what my family has always said. Because xenophobia is always around. Because the latest version of the collapsing society seems to draw from old racialist arguments. And to a small extent, because immigration has not been well handled in the UK.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 03:19:52
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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That's a good post, sebster.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 03:50:45
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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First thing, please use the quote system.
sexiest_hero wrote:I found this little tid bit on the net "Cheshire Police force has more than 2,200 officers and 21 are minorities or from another country"
Yes, I see the statistical excuses for positive discrimination, but the hard reality is that in order to offset this recruits are being rejected outright on the basis of colour. It is certainly not a 'whites out policy', but a well meaning but nonetheless discriminatory approach to police recruitment based upon equality dogmas. Equal opportunity should mean if you are good enough for the job your race, gender, age, religion or sexual preferences should not be factored into your application. However it has instead come to mean if we feel minorities are underrepresented we will discriminate against white male applicants and lower the entry bar on other applicants until the quotas are levelled.
This is what is happening, and it is by no means fair.
sexiest_hero wrote:It seem's that the nummer of non white cops in England is 10 out of 1000. If your friend was one of the few who didn't get hired out of the may that did, i'm sure it had more to do than with his color. your making it sound like it is 10 native born white males tp 1000 others.
The case I know of was in the West Midlands not Cheshire. The West Midlands has a different demographic, both for ethnicity in the general populace and in the police force, it is certainly not 1% but far higher. Also UK gov statistics are largely suspect especially the discredited Home Office statistics on immigration. EU and UN are far better sources for Uk demographics, our government lies through its teeth.
sexiest_hero wrote:As for the Military thing, one could argue that they are quicker to accept minorities to fill up the front lines, as was done in the USA's past. I doubt this is the case either. From what I've seen first hand, The british military is pretty fair in the way it works. (The number of foreign and Commonwealth citizens joining the British army total about 6,700. 7% of the total.)
I cannot repeat even half of what I hear, but it is less rosy than it looks. Positive discrimination is rife, many suspect out of MoD policy, this is as much as I am prepared to say. Feel free to reserve judgement until you hear something more solid, but you might be waiting a while.
Besides the idea that ethnic soldier = cannon fodder doesnt really wash, if this is what you mean. It would be chronically bad for morale. Also the more realistic idea of ethnic soldier = unified front doesnt wash either, because of the un-anglicised nature of many ethnic groups in the UK, and the proliferation of multi-cultural dogma many have concerns that some ethnic soldiery may have more in common with the enemy than with their fellows. This leads to unfounded mistrust of loyal ethinic soldiers alongside known cases of ethnic soldiers refusing to fight those they consider 'brothers'.
sexiest_hero wrote:(Note I did not accuse you of being a racist at all). 7% military and 10 out of 1000 is in no way a bias towards whites.
Thankyou, but I need to cover my back. To some any criticism of political correctness leads to a kneejerk reaction of finger pointing, I have seen this before, I remember as part of Hertfordshire County Council community services team undergoing formal equal opportunities training, a mandatory set of courses that must be passed for full certification. There I learned that an ethnic minority could not be racist as racism is only possible if you are part of the political majority, an ethnic could be discriminatory, but this was a lesser offence than racism. Likewise women cannot be sexist, only men. Also as a white male I am likely to be institutionally racist, and I should confess and be forgiven. After the WTF moments passed I felt like challenging all that, but sat and listened to the PC bull while thinking of the scene from Killing Fields where the journalist pretends to be a dumb taxi driver rather than envoke the wrath of the state.
Some of these dogmas have been eventually discarded, some have got worse.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/23 03:55:30
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 05:24:49
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Orlanth wrote:Yes, I see the statistical excuses for positive discrimination, but the hard reality is that in order to offset this recruits are being rejected outright on the basis of colour. It is certainly not a 'whites out policy', but a well meaning but nonetheless discriminatory approach to police recruitment based upon equality dogmas. Equal opportunity should mean if you are good enough for the job your race, gender, age, religion or sexual preferences should not be factored into your application. However it has instead come to mean if we feel minorities are underrepresented we will discriminate against white male applicants and lower the entry bar on other applicants until the quotas are levelled.
This is what is happening, and it is by no means fair.
Okay, should a police applicant be more likely to be hired if he’s bilingual? If an applicant can speak Polish he would be an asset in policing Polish communities.
Now then, when policing Asiatic communities, is any consideration to be given for a friendly face? I’m not saying this should be the only consideration, but by sexiest_hero’s figure only 1% of cops aren’t white. I think if I was policing an area with a strong Indian immigrant community, I’d rather an Indian face or two on my side, than another cop who managed to be in the last 1% that scraped through course admissions.
Thankyou, but I need to cover my back. To some any criticism of political correctness leads to a kneejerk reaction of finger pointing, I have seen this before, I remember as part of Hertfordshire County Council community services team undergoing formal equal opportunities training, a mandatory set of courses that must be passed for full certification. There I learned that an ethnic minority could not be racist as racism is only possible if you are part of the political majority, an ethnic could be discriminatory, but this was a lesser offence than racism. Likewise women cannot be sexist, only men. Also as a white male I am likely to be institutionally racist, and I should confess and be forgiven. After the WTF moments passed I felt like challenging all that, but sat and listened to the PC bull while thinking of the scene from Killing Fields where the journalist pretends to be a dumb taxi driver rather than envoke the wrath of the state.
Some of these dogmas have been eventually discarded, some have got worse.
It’s a complicated issue but racism really is different when it comes from different places. If I’m out at lunch and someone on the side of the street yells out ‘filthy Aussie’ it’s bad and whoever said it still a xenophobic jerk, but at the end of the day I’ll still get served in the restaurant full of other white blokes, I’ll still return to my job full of white blokes, and then I’ll go home and watch tv shows full of white blokes.
Coming from a majority, it can be easy to forgot that all of the above can’t be taken for granted for a lot of minorities.
I’m not saying you don’t have a legitimate case, you do. There are plenty of instances of where authorities have been slow to react or failed to react because the victim was a member of the majority, but that doesn’t mean things aren’t different based on the skin colours of the oppressor and the victim.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 06:23:48
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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Orlanth wrote:Ahtman wrote:Orlanth wrote:Calling an Indian a "Paki" is like calling an Israeli Jew a "rag head".
In the US that term isn't used for Jews but Arabs. We have other exciting names for Jews.
I was explaining to you the irony, and why it was doubly offensive. I could of said Calling an Indian a "Paki" is like calling an Arab a "yid'..
I understood it quite well thank you. I was just pointing out another little difference between there and here, such as the use of Asia there and here. In the US that term is almost never used to describe Israeli's, but apparently over there it is. Just taking notice.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/02/23 06:24:49
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 06:50:19
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Committed Chaos Cult Marine
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"There I learned that an ethnic minority could not be racist as racism is only possible if you are part of the political majority, an ethnic could be discriminatory, but this was a lesser offence than racism"
There are a few african americans who remain in power pecause of racism. Members of the New black panters are as much reviled by blacks as the klan is by whites.
"Likewise women cannot be sexist, only men."
We all agree that new age feminism is sexist. With that whole "Slavery of marrige" thing. Every guy I know got drug up the alter.
Men just don't stand up to it as much as women. I think clubs should have a guys night like they do a ladies night. Where we got in free and the girls had to pay.
A minority May have a skill set that can be used, I.E. able to translate or go under cover. Or People in that part of town may be more willing to trust a member of thier own race more, as sad as that is.
"Also as a white male I am likely to be institutionally racist, and I should confess and be forgiven."
Man I wish the only stereotype I had to deal with was that  . Yes, It is a stereotype, and must be proven wrong like all stereotypes, only you can do that by proving you are not what people think.
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And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 07:17:24
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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Part of the charm of those sorts of events is that they show in stark focus what it feels like to be stereotyped against. As a while male, I pretty much always feel defined by my skills, my personality, etc. and not by my race or sex. That's not as true for women and minorities, and part of a good "Sensitivity training" should be to expose us honkies to what it's like to be prejudiced against because of your race. I'd hate to sit through it as much as anybody, but if you take how you felt during that seminar and realize that's how minorities feel often, it's a bit unsettling.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 07:45:29
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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sebster wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:This line of discussion is so going to get some alerts going.
JD21290's grandmother can be left out of the discussion about the BNP without risk of affecting the basic direction of argument.
I'm not sure that's true. Maybe because it's more likely to lead to a flame war she could be left out of the discussion, but I think it's a pretty good insight into the bizarre kinds of rationalisations that go on to justify racist thought.
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I agree with what you are saying.
My viewpoint as a moderator is that illustrating the argument with close relatives of board members is likely to cause a breach of the peace. I know it was JD who brought his grandmother into the topic, but even so.
Everyone knows someone who says, "I'm not a racists, but..." and those kind of anecdotes can be used to illustrate points without the risk of angering a board member.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 09:08:27
Subject: Re:The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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When stuff like this rears it's ugly head I always take comfort in a comment made by Majot Roy Farren in his book The Winged Dagger. He passes comment on his return to Greece towards the end of WWII, when there was all the troubles and expresses his sorrow about the situation. He ends his description of his visit by saying this could never happen in Britain because the British are too stubborn to be pushed in any one direction. With this I have to agree strongly. We have our pockets of idiots, but as a whole the great British public don't like or support extremes. This is why the facists or communists never realy took hold in the 20's/30's/40's.
It kind of feels like we might, but we seem to reach a peak and then say"we've made our point" and it settles down again.
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Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
www.wulfstandesign.co.uk
http://www.voodoovegas.com/
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 09:10:18
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Skink Chief with Poisoned Javelins
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Speaking of illegal immigrants, John Howard (the previous Aussie PM, FYI) decided:
"I'm not going to let these refugees in MY country! I'll lock them up in a detention centre! Everyone wins!"
and spent 13 years or so in office completely ignoring Australia's Aboriginal community so he could concentrate on locking up refugees from war-torn areas.
ungulateman
PS: This is a slightly exaggerated account, and isn't completely accurate. I try.
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One means the Mechanicum truly loses their gak, and the other means the Eldar realize that Vaul is really a toaster and experience religion fail.
Techmarine Mario and Brother Adept Luigi to the rescue !
I think it is a small fraction of Jesus worshiping Christians who have psychic powers.
Join the Church of the Children of Turtle Pie
<-- Second in Command of the Turtle Pie Guard --> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/23 09:37:43
Subject: The Rise of Hate and of the BNP.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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People are gaks - that means you can have perfectly good policy and it can be ruined by gakky little council workers running it.
Sexism / Racism are totally different. Women make up around 50% of the population, and nearly always get custody, are actually less likely to be attacked by a stranger etc, it's hard to credit.
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http://www.military-sf.com/MilitaryScienceFiction.htm
“Attention citizens! Due to the financial irresponsibility and incompetence of your leaders, Cobra has found it necessary to restructure your nation’s economy. We have begun by eliminating the worthless green paper, which your government has deceived you into believing is valuable. Cobra will come to your rescue and, out of the ashes, will arise a NEW ORDER!” |
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