Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:Proposed Chaos Codex: See Chaos Codex V3.5

So true.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Go for some Sacred Number stuff on the GD's - GUO should be T7 W7!!!

Aye aye cap'n.

@MarvinGaye- Yes, yes I know. But the problem is that, well, I just wanted to try and make a new Chaos codex. I am pretty much swiping everything in that codex, though.

Arleucs wrote:

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:Proposed Chaos Codex: See Chaos Codex V3.5

So true.

On top of that,

roll for each model

See Lost and the Damned and Slaves to Darkness. Randomly generating gifts for each model might sounds like a neat idea but it was a horrible horrible horrible idea in practice. You're either stuck with having to WYSIWYG the occasional gimp model with four left feet or give up entirely and have to resort to a ten page chart and numbers on your figures to keep track of which figure has what.

Arleucs wrote:

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:Proposed Chaos Codex: See Chaos Codex V3.5

So true.

Not really. The book was better in many regards but also had its flaws ... the lengths people would go through to get Siren, the confusion of explaining all 15 upgrades on your DP, and the people who assumed they had all the upgrades but "gasp" it looks like they forgot to pay the points for them, combined them in illegal ways, put too many upgrades on the LT, etc. Though in reflection in the current environment of 3+ invuls, multiple model wound sharing through different equipment, psyker squads that can drop your leadership, etc. it probobly wouldn't be all that bad now(still would be a pain building your Lord and Lt though) ... It definitly stood on the fluff better and utilized units in more distinct ways and only had a few flop units.

Anyway, envisioning your own version of how things could be is a fun excercise. Just don't expect to do anything more than play a few local games with your buddies with it.

Meph

solkan wrote:
See Lost and the Damned and Slaves to Darkness. Randomly generating gifts for each model might sounds like a neat idea but it was a horrible horrible horrible idea in practice. You're either stuck with having to WYSIWYG the occasional gimp model with four left feet or give up entirely and have to resort to a ten page chart and numbers on your figures to keep track of which figure has what.

Are you referring to Focusedfire? Because I don't think I've had anything with roll for each model... Maybe Tentacles, but that was supposed to be a blanket +D3 attacks, not for each individual model.

I actually lifted a few things from Slaves to Darkness, namely the Chaotic Attributes. Of course I actually fixed it a bit (d4-1 was a bit much, D3-2 is the most balanced, but I have given Chaos Lords the option to make the mutations D4-2 for a rather hefty points cost of course!).

I've done my best to simplify everything. There are a lot of options for individual characters and models of course, but for squads you can't arm each guy individually. Too much confusion.

@ Mephistoles1-

I don't have the 3.5 Chaos codex, and it's almost for the better as I'm starting from a (mostly) clean slate. Daemon Princes are still an option.

However I'm thinking of creating a rule where you MUST show your opponent every single mutation that you have taken for your lords. I might enforce WYSIWYG too. Like, if it's not WYSIWYG (ignoring things like Frightening, but for things like Gigantic and DP) you get minuses to stats.

I don't mind the current CSM codex. The shame isn't that they took away the legion rules, the shame is that they ever made them. And while I think it's a good codex, it isn't very 'chaos mariney' either. It is a pretty good codex, but pretty bland too.

As a SW player, I still say, loyalists should only have two codexes: Codex: Codex Marines and minor variants (DA, BA) and Codex: Nonconformist Marines (BT, SW). The differences between BT and Ultramarines are a lot less than the differences between SM and Tau, and I'd much rather GW work on other non-Marine projects like Tau, Lost and the Damned, and Genestealer Cults. So, I don't mind there being one CSM book to rule them all. Ok, after that rant.....

I see the CSM Legions breaking into three categories.
1. The Cult Legions
2. Black Legion and Word Bearers
3. All the rest (IW, NL, AL).

The Cult Legions are a bit of their own animal. They have certain strengths and weaknesses, and just using CSM Havocs with the Mark of Nurgle isn't the same as having Death Guard Havocs. One of the problems with the Cult Legions is that they have fairly few choices - Terminators, Cult Troops, maybe some Fast Attack (World Eater with Jump Packs), maybe some Heavy Support (which isn't always heavy weapon based).

Black Legion is the 'bit of everything' and is probably pretty close the current CSM: Renegades idea. Word Bearers don't tend to have Cult Troops in their ranks, but they're pretty 'chaosy' and not too far from Black Legion. Although, Word Bearers tend not to go for possesion and just summoning daemons as shock troops.

The undivided Legions are pretty unique. They're mostly based on CSM on foot (which in the CSM codex aren't as good as the cult troops) and all have their 'niche'. Night Lords, Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion really aren't that 'chaosy'. Sadly, all three of these Legions are better using the loyalist SM codex to 'count as'. But, as shown in Lord of the Night and Storm of Iron, while the Legion may not be real 'chaosy' there are chaosy parts of the Legion, and they probably are pretty close the BL/WB archtype.

So, to me, if you want to get the Legions feel into the game, you're looking at least at 6 army lists - 4 Cults, Black Legion and Word Bearers, and the three 'non-chaosy' Legions.

I think one of the problems in the current codex is that when you compare a Cult Troop to a CSM with a Mark, for not that many more points, the Cult Troops are a lot better. So, I'd like to see the lowly CSM given a boost in some fashion (even if it's just a points reduction).

Mephistoles1 wrote:The book was better in many regards but also had its flaws

As opposed to just being flawed, like the current 'Chaos' Codex. I'll take fun and flawed over dull and perfect any day (and the current 'Dex ain't perfect either...).

Mephistoles1 wrote:the lengths people would go through to get Siren

I'd hazard that more people played non Siren armies than people who did, so this is a wild exaggeration. Besides, you can't lay the blame only on the players - GW wrote the damned rule. And now, with Lash, they've written something that's worse and you simply pay for it.

Mephistoles1 wrote:the confusion of explaining all 15 upgrades on your DP, and the people who assumed they had all the upgrades but "gasp" it looks like they forgot to pay the points for them, combined them in illegal ways, put too many upgrades on the LT, etc.

I'm going to come right out and say it, and I'm sorry if this annoys you, but if anyone who couldn't figure out the Daemonic Wargear limits and how they worked is an idiot. Anyone who can count to 150 can do it, and I'm pretty sure that if pressed we could all do that. Besides, most people have access to:

1. A Calculator.
2. A spreadsheet tool.
3. Army Builder (which did it for you).

That and Daemonic Mutations were flavoursome and made Chaos Chaos. Now the only options a Lord is what weapon he takes. Whoop-de-fething-do.

Mephistoles1 wrote:Anyway, envisioning your own version of how things could be is a fun excercise. Just don't expect to do anything more than play a few local games with your buddies with it.

And that's a bad thing? We've spent over 5 years developing our own ruleset for 40K. Just becuase they won't be adopting it at the next Adepticon hasn't stopped us.

Hi, back again.

I was thinking, what about LD bubbles?

I.E., if a Chaos Lord is within 6" of some cultists, then they are assumed to pass any morale or pinning test, but are subject to 'No Retreat!' or something of that sort.

Because heck, I'd be probably more scared of the Lord than I would be of the enemy. Plus, something like a Chaos Lord would probably inspire one to fight harder (if only to save their own hide, but still). And 'No Retreat!' would emphasize that kind of quality.

By the way, I'm adding in Enforcers are the pseudo Commissars of the humans. He'll be pretty much like the IG Commissar, except with access to different stuff, and also better priced.

Damn this is going to take a while...

There's enough Fearless in Chaos. If anything there should be less Fearless units. In our Codex we made it so MoK and MoT grant Fearlessness, but the MoN and MoS only grant Stubborn.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Damn this is going to take a while...

Chaos does take a while. Our Codex - which is only at V0.2 mind you - is sitting at 21 hours for just V0.2. That's not 'I wrote it in one go on a very long day', that's '21 full hours of editing'. Not all at once, but it gives you an idea of just how complex Chaos can be when you don't Jervis the life out of it.

Yes, I just made Jervis into a verb. I verbed him. Heheheh.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:Damn this is going to take a while...

Chaos does take a while. Our Codex - which is only at V0.2 mind you - is sitting at 21 hours for just V0.2. That's not 'I wrote it in one go on a very long day', that's '21 full hours of editing'. Not all at once, but it gives you an idea of just how complex Chaos can be when you don't Jervis the life out of it.

Yes, I just made Jervis into a verb. I verbed him. Heheheh.

Wow! That's definitely a long time.

I figure that today I'll be spending most of my time fixing up LatD, in between College visits of course. (Ah, the joys of modern high school... )

It shouldn't be too bad.

Here's my proposed list for LatD units that are going in:

HQ:
Human Champion of Chaos
Human Lieutenant
(Both come with a retinue, and are NOT independent characters. These will have LD bubbles so that if you want to play LatD you're not screwed for LD, though sometimes I feel they should all be running away, but I want them to be able to stand on their own a bit.)

Elites:
Big Mutants (These will be pretty much like Ogryns, except with more/different options and costed better! )

Renegade Psykers (This squad will include an Enforcer)

Chaos Spawn

Troops:
Traitors (This squad will be able to include Enforcers as upgrades)

Mutants (My favorite! )

Fast Attack:
Chaos Hounds

Crude Machine of Chaos (This will be a catch-all in a sense for weird machines like Stalk Tanks and other stuff.)

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ
Leman Russ Demolisher
Basilisk

The heavy support is likely going to be my biggest problem. Are the Leman Russes separate entries, or is it just, you get a Leman Russ, and then for +X points you have a Demolisher?

Also, should I try and make it so that you need Traitors to take Leman Russes and Basilisks?

Or should I just make it so that even Daemons (if they wanted to) could take a Basilisk? Because either it's really no restriction, or there is some restriction.

Oops, I totally forgot about Traitor recon! (Hellhounds, Rough Riders, and Sentinels)

Made up a couple new Psychic Powers for those who like Psychic Powers!

Imbue Power- In Close Combat, the model's CCW is considered a Force Weapon.

Slow Time- R:24". Nominate one unit or Independent character not in Close Combat, it is considered to have -1 I and counts as moving through difficult terrain, even in assaults.

Okay, for some LatD goodness. Keep in mind that point costs are still a bit, well, arbitrary.

Also, changed Extra Limbs so that it just allows one to shoot as a Monstrous Creature.

Tentacles has been deleted, and replaced with Daemonic Mutations as per the 3.5 Codex, meaning that it gives +1 A.

Breathes Fire has been downgraded to a Hand Flamer, that being R:Template Str3 Ap6.

I made a generic weapon called Firearms as per the LatD sheet.
It is R24" Str 4 Ap - Assault 2, Gets Hot!

Human Champion of Chaos
Pts: 30
WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3 W:3 I:4 A:3 LD:10 SV:5+

Human Lieutenant of Chaos
Pts: 15
WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3 W:2 I:3 A:2 LD:9 SV:5+

Weapons: Las/Autogun, Las/Autopistol and Close Combat Weapon

Options:
May take one of the Marks at the following cost: Khorne+8, Tzeentch+9, Nurgle+8, Slaanesh+8, Undivided+8, Malal+7

One of these 1 handed weapons: (Replaces CCW)
Power Weapon+7
Power Fist+17
Khornate Chainaxe+3

One of these 1 Handed Guns: (Replaces Las/Autopistol)
Hand Flamer+4
Needle Pistol+3
Plasma Pistol+10
Bolt Pistol+3

One of these 2 Handed Guns: (Replaces Las/Autogun)
Plasma Gun+10
Firearm+1
Bolter+3
Tzeentchian Arquebus+3
Assault Bolter+6

Armor: (1 of these)
Carapace+5
Power Armor+12
Daemon Armor+25

Equipment: (1 of these)
Bike+15
Jump Pack+8

Other:
Bionics+2
Servo Harness+15
Daemon Runes+15 (Attach to a weapon, may buy Daemon Runes for every weapon if you wish)
Combat Drugs+20

Mutations:
Wings+8 (move as Jump Pack)
Extra Limbs+8 (shoot as Monstrous Creature)
Daemonic Mutations+10 (+1A)
Frightening+10 (-1LD to enemies within 6")
Aura of the Warp+15 (5+ invulnerable)
Increased Strength+10 (Model becomes S3(4))
Talons+15 (Rending)
Increased Toughness+10 (Model becomes T3(4))
Breathes Fire+5 (See Hand Flamer, doesn't count as a CCW though)
Protection of the gods+15 (Eternal Warrior)
Subduing Gaze+13 (-1I to enemy in assault)
Daemonic Constitution+17 (+1 Wound)
Blessing of the Dark gods+40 (For Chaotic Attributes, instead of D3-2, roll D3-1 instead.)
Increased Speed+10 (Moves as Cavalry. Can't be used on a Bike or Jump Pack, or with Wings)

May be a Sorceror for +10 points

Models that are Sorcerors must take at least 1 these following powers:
Doombolt+20 (R18" Str 5 Ap4 Assault 3)

Gift of Chaos+25 (R:2", Choose a model, and roll a d6. If the d6 roll is higher than the model's Toughness, or a 6, the model becomes a Chaos Spawn. This power may be used in Close Combat if the chosen model is within 2")

Slow Time+25 (R:24". Nominate one unit or Independent character not in Close Combat, it is considered to have -1 I and counts as moving through difficult terrain, even in assaults.)

Wind of Chaos+30 (R:Template Str X Ap 2)

Warptime+40 (Reroll any failed to hit and to wound rolls, but must use the second result. May be used in either the shooting phase or the assault phase.)

Imbue Power+10 (Model counts as using a Force Weapon in Close Combat, can't be used on Khornate Chainaxes)

Sorcerors may also take any of these:
Warp Focus+15 (Doesn't work on Gift of Chaos. Add +d6" to any Psychic Power used)
Familiar+25 (May use an additional Psychic power.)
Talisman+10 (May reroll a failed Psychic Power test once per game)

Special Rules:
Chaotic Attributes (Optional, add D3-2 of any of these: S, T, W, I, A. This does add to (or subtract from) base stats)
Independent Character
Champion (may take up to 4 mutations)
Inspiring (Models with the Special Rule Minion that are within 6" of this model use this model's LD for any morale and pinning test)
Essence of the Warp


Whew...that's a lot of stuff. Please critique. As constructively as possible. The point costs make me worthy of the nickname Arby. But that's why this is a rough draft, right?

Hey H.M.B.C. you don't happen to have a preview of that codex of yours floating around do you?

Vlad, did you remember the Plauge Sword for Nurgle armies? That retardedly cheesy but awesome power sword you could give to every AC in the Army.

BrotherStynier wrote:
Vlad, did you remember the Plauge Sword for Nurgle armies? That retardedly cheesy but awesome power sword you could give to every AC in the Army.

I'm going to be honest and say that I don't. I don't have the 3.5 codex (though I am getting it from a friend for free), so I'll be able to look though all of the stuff.

What did it do, though, now I'm very interested! <-My favorite smiley it seems.

Also I feel that, though I'm trying to take a lot of stuff from the 3.5 dex, it also kind of helps to have new/fresh ideas.

:edit: Also try and find the cheesiest combos possible with the above statline I just posted. I made the statline about 20 or so minutes before I posted it, so some other takes on it are very welcome.

The Plauge Sword, if I remember correctly of the top of my head, was a sword where if a model took an unsaved wound from the sword roll a d6 on a 4 plus the model dies, regardless of how many wounds it has remaining. Also its a power sword.

BrotherStynier wrote:The Plauge Sword, if I remember correctly of the top of my head, was a sword where if a model took an unsaved wound from the sword roll a d6 on a 4 plus the model dies, regardless of how many wounds it has remaining. Also its a power sword.

Crimony, that's good.

Perhaps this could be the Nurgle daemon weapon? (With some changes, of course)

Yeah I liked the idea of too.

I was sad when I bought the 3.5 dex and read that. I switched fully to chaos ofter 5ed SM, 4ed Chaos has more flavor than the SM do now, unless you count Heros granting abilities.

But yeah that sword could be taken on any Hero unit and Aspiring Champ, I don't think there was a limit on numbers taken.

I do think it would make a great Daemon Weapon for this though, as it is a bit over powered to put on a squad level.

Very cool stuff.

Do you happen to remember the other weapons for the other 3 gods of Chaos?

Because I really, really like the Plaguesword. Character (and MC) killer extraordinaire. I would love to translate the others over.

I'm kind of afraid of this codex being looked upon as "oh he just took the 3.5 codex and changed stuff" so that's also why I'm very cautious of using some things, but the Daemon Weapons I'm stuck with so any ideas are helpful.

By the way BrotherStynier, I'm wondering, what do you think of what I've proposed so far? Obviously it has a long way to go before I can call it a codex but any and all comments are helpful!

Off the top of my head no I do not remember any off the top of my head, other than the Plague Bringer or what ever it was called back then which granted you more attacks depending on how many enemies where near by. Due to it being a scythe and there for difficult to use in single combat.



So far it seems ok, it looks like it has alot of V 3.5 in it mixed with 4th and the other things like The lost and the Damned. Personally I would rather see the Book split up into two or three books rather than just being thrown into one. I believe that the Chaos Legionaries should have there own dex and not be thrown in with the Renegade Chapters and the Lost and the Damned.

I'm not entirely sure how you could make that work with out ending up like the SM having a Codex for every chapter that has a slight difference between it and the main one. Currently 4th Ed to me seems great for Renegade Marines, not the Legions. So you could have one book be pretty much 4th Ed, compiling the Black Legion, the Renegade Chapters, World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard and Emperor's Children. The legions going there because, fluff wise currently they are scattered war bands that will work for any Warlord that grants them what they need at the time.

The other Legions that tend to have more of a specific way of doing things, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, they could all be rolled into one book that is divided into separate sections for each army much like how they were in 3.5.


EDIT: Oh and through the night I will go back and re-read the current list you have to offer more (Hopefully) helpful advice.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Very cool stuff.

Do you happen to remember the other weapons for the other 3 gods of Chaos?

Because I really, really like the Plaguesword. Character (and MC) killer extraordinaire. I would love to translate the others over.

I'm kind of afraid of this codex being looked upon as "oh he just took the 3.5 codex and changed stuff" so that's also why I'm very cautious of using some things, but the Daemon Weapons I'm stuck with so any ideas are helpful.

Ask and ye shall receive!

Generic Daemon Weapons
Dread Axe: poison 4+, no invulns allowed
Dark blade: power, +2 str
Etherlance: power, template S4 AP3
Kai Gun: 24" S6 AP3 A2

"Undivided"
Accursed Crozious: Daemon. Power, 4+ invuln, personal icon
Daemon Sword Drach'nyen: (not technically daemon, but...) 1 attack, no reroll. Hit kills, or pens (invuln save?)

Khorne:
Axe of Khorne: Non-Daemon. power, rolls of 6 to hit grant extra attacks.
Berserker Glaive: Daemon. Power. 4+ invuln, double base attacks, always blood frenzy (doubt that last one means anything now. Or convert to Rage)

Nurgle:
Manreaper: Daemon. power. +1 attack if targeting single character, (like an IC) +d6 attacks if attacking unit.
Pandemic Staff: Daemon. target unit within 12", every model 4+ hit, str 3, save as normal.
Plague sword: Non-Daemon. power. for every wound that didn't kill, roll. 4+, model dies.

Slaanesh:
Lash of Torment: power. enemy morale at -1 if they lose combat and need to test. may be used 'at full effect' if model within 2" of enemy. (suspect this is a 3e rule that mght need to change.)
Needle of Desire: Daemon. wounds on 2+. model wounded must pass Ld or take +d3 wounds, no save. Cannot be power.(ie, wielded by monstrous creature.)
blastmaster: 24" S4 AP5 A2/H3
Doomsiren: frag grenade, template S4 AP5

Tzeentch:
Bedlam Staff: Daemon. power. Model wounded cannot attack until end of NEXT assault phase.
Warp Blade: Daemon. Power. psykers within 12" must roll d6 when using powers, 1-3 perils of the warp.

Note that the old balance for daemon was if they killed a model, the owner had to make a Ld test or suffer perils.
(My apologies for not posting recently, I had some exams this week.)

EDIT: spaces so that my daemon weapons weren't )

one additional note: on your champion of chaos, why 8 points for the mark of undivided? Undivided, as far as I'm aware has always been the cheapest mark.

On the Greater Deamons maybe You shouldn't try to do it all in the stats. Leave some room for special rules. With the right special rules I could see the GUO with the following profile:

WS6 BS5 S5 T5 W10 I2 A4 Ld 10 Sv-/4+inv

Unit type:Greater Deamon/MC

Special Rules: In addition to any from weapons or being a greater deamon it gets a "Regenerate ability" and "Eternal Warrior"

Just an idea to get that 10 into the stat-line

I'd try and make it to where they are balanced in a HtH fight with the Eldar Avatar of Khaine. The only exception possibly being the Blood thirster and even then it should be very very close.

Corrections in BOLD

AllWillFall2Me wrote:

Ask and ye shall receive!

Generic Daemon Weapons
Dread Axe: always wounds on 4+ not considered poison, no invulns allowed
Dark blade: power, +2 str
Etherlance: power, template S4 AP3
Kai Gun: 24" S6 AP3 A2

"Undivided"
Accursed Crozious: Daemon. Power, 4+ invuln, personal icon Word Bearers Only
Daemon Sword Drach'nyen: (not technically daemon, but...) only 1 attack, no reroll. Hit instant kills, and instantly pens vehicles (invuln saves are not touched on)

Khorne:
Axe of Khorne: Non-Daemon. power, rolls of 6 to hit grant extra attacks.
Berserker Glaive: Daemon. Power. 4+ invuln, double base attacks, always blood frenzy (doubt that last one means anything now. Or convert to Rage)
Khornate Chain Axe (Non-Daemon): CC Weapon that makes it so the best possible sav you can have is a 4+.

Nurgle:
Manreaper: Daemon. power. +1 attack if targeting single character, (like an IC) +d6 attacks if attacking unit.
Pandemic Staff: Daemon. target unit within 12", every model 4+ hit, str 3, save as normal, Normal Close Combat Weapon.
Plague sword: Non-Daemon. power. for every wound that didn't kill, roll. 4+, model dies.

Slaanesh:
Lash of Torment: power. enemy morale at -1 if they lose combat and need to test. may be used 'at full effect' if model within 2" of enemy. (suspect this is a 3e rule that mght need to change.)
Needle of Desire: Daemon. wounds on 2+. model wounded must pass Ld or take +d3 wounds, no save. Cannot be power.(ie, wielded by monstrous creature.)
blastmaster: 24" S4 AP5 A2/H3
Doomsiren: frag grenade, template S4 AP5

Tzeentch:
Bedlam Staff: Daemon. power. Model wounded cannot attack until end of NEXT assault phase. Causes Crew Shaken
Warp Blade: Daemon. Power. psykers within 12" must roll d6 when using powers, 1-3 perils of the warp.

Note that the old balance for daemon was if they killed a model, the owner had to make a Ld test or suffer perils.
(My apologies for not posting recently, I had some exams this week.)

EDIT: spaces so that my daemon weapons weren't )

Also!

Daemonic Gifts-

Daemon Armour: 2+ sv
Daemonic Aura: 5+ Invuln sv
Daemonic Chains; Reroll possesion
Daemonic Essance: +1 wound
Daemonic Fire: Shooting Attack 12 inch range, S
tr 4 Ap 6 Assault 2
Daemonic Flight: Moves as with Jump Pack
Daemonic Mutation: +1 Attack
Daemonic Resilience: +1 toughness
Daemonic Rune: No instant death
Daemonic Stature: +1 Str +1 Toughness, Monstrous Creature
Daemon Steed: Move as Cavalry, Daemonic Resilience
Daemon Spawn: Follower, Model is joined by a Chaos Spawn
Daemonic Speed: Move as Cavalry
Daemonic Strength: +1 str
Daemonic Talons: Addition CC weapon, rolls of 6+ to hit auto wound no Armour Save, rolls to pen on six get bonus dice on a 6+
Daemon Venom: Always wounds on a 4+ unless normally it would be less
Daemonic Visage: Defeated enemies in CC at -1 ld for moral checks.

AllWillFall2Me wrote:one additional note: on your champion of chaos, why 8 points for the mark of undivided? Undivided, as far as I'm aware has always been the cheapest mark.

Hmmm...good point. I'll make it a lot cheaper. Perhaps 5 points?

I was also thinking that the Human Champion and Lieutenant could give the effects of the reroll to units within 6".

@BrotherStynier- Wow....That's a lot of stuff.

The Berserker Glaive is sick...should be at least 50 points if not more. I like the Axe of Khorne, and the pandemic staff. The Needle is sick, so is the Warp Blade.

@Focused Fire-

Personally I like to avoid Special Rules, but in the case of the GD's, trust me, there's lots already so I don't want to add more!

Points!

Generic Daemon Weapons
Dread Axe: 25pts
Dark blade: 25pts
Etherlance: 35pts
Kai Gun: 25pts

"Undivided"
Accursed Crozious: 40pts
Daemon Sword Drach'nyen: N/A See Abbadon

Khorne:
Axe of Khorne: 20/15pts
Berserker Glaive: 40pts
Khornate Chain Axe: 3/1 pts

Nurgle:
Manreaper: 25pts
Pandemic Staff: 25pts
Plague sword: 25/15pts

Slaanesh:
Lash of Torment: 25pts
Needle of Desire: 25pts
Doomsiren: 10pts

Tzeentch:
Bedlam Staff:25pts
Warp Blade:25pts

Daemon Armour: 20/10pts
Daemonic Aura: 15/10pts
Daemonic Chains: 20pts
Daemonic Essence: 15pts/-
Daemonic Fire: 5pts
Daemonic Flight: 20/10pts
Daemonic Mutation: 15/10pts
Daemonic Resilience: 10pts
Daemonic Rune: 35pts
Daemonic Stature (Lord Only): 15pts
Daemon Steed: 25/15 pts
Daemon Spawn: 20pts
Daemonic Speed: 15/10pts
Daemonic Strength: 10/5pts
Daemonic Talons: 10/5pts
Daemon Venom: 5/3pts
Daemonic Visage: 5/2pts

Any other questions ask then ask em, I brought the dex to work.

Okay, this is a big one, but how did Daemon Princes work?

Like, did you have to buy a certain amount of stuff?

And what were the Daemon Prince rules, and did they cost extra?

Thanks again for all of your help!

-Vlad

P.S. Daemonic Stature seems like a kind of no-brainer. 15 points? That's insane.

"Chaos Lord is the term used to describe a commander who is largely still a Space Marine;the more daemonic gifts he has the further he has progressed towards being a Daemon Prince. As a guide line a Chaos Lord with more than 50 points of daemonic abilities can claim to be a daemon prince and should be modeled appropriately."
-Codex Chaos Space Marines 3.5 page 22

So his stats would be, base line plus abilities granted by daemonic gifts.

BrotherStynier:Thanks for clarifying my post, I'm known for using shorthand where I shouldn't. I hadn't mentioned the chainaxe because I thought he already had it.

@vlads: 5 points was the standard for ICs that I saw.
As to demonic stature, I agree, except that for some builds it's unnecessary/unfluffy. For instance, I have a Night Lord Chaos Lord built by the 3.5 rules that, while Stature wouldn't hurt him, I don't see a reason to give him. He's as strong and tough as I feel he needs to be.

No problem, you were pretty much spot on with most of it.

BrotherStynier wrote:"Chaos Lord is the term used to describe a commander who is largely still a Space Marine;the more daemonic gifts he has the further he has progressed towards being a Daemon Prince. As a guide line a Chaos Lord with more than 50 points of daemonic abilities can claim to be a daemon prince and should be modeled appropriately."
-Codex Chaos Space Marines 3.5 page 22

So his stats would be, base line plus abilities granted by daemonic gifts.

Hm, that's quite interesting, and I can see how this could get out of hand.

Comparatively, making a Daemon Prince in some of my proposed stuff is a lot more expensive. Making a Monstrous Creature Daemon Prince is very expensive, about 130 points before anything else, but it's still very worth it.

Again, thank you so much for all of the posts that you have made! : )

@ AllWillFall2Me,

I will now make the Undivided Mark 5 points. Do you have any other suggestions?

Also, thank you also for all of the suggestions that you have made.