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The poor Dark Eldar need to be redone SO badly it's not even funny. Poor Dark Eldar Warriors...

-J.

I think LatD is a more interesting army as well. I played DE for the first time the other week, and it was a very fun match, but that was that. A fun match with two old codexes (I play WH).
Lost and the Damned are, as has been stated, the Imperium's main enemy, tie in remarkably well with both the chaos and daemon codexes (leading perhaps to a DH/WH allies system, if GW decided they liked complexity again.) Plus, with all the fluff out there, a WD codex list would almost be sufficient, though I would like a full book.

Dark Eldar, I just don't see the point of them being more than a WD variant list if they want an update for them. They are ok sorta nifty and different, but not so much that they are exciting. They also are not major players in the galactic war, as has been stated, so it just seems wierd to devote a lot of energy to them.

Still, if I had my way, both codexes would be on my shelf today!

If I was revising Dark Eldar...

I'd keel the same background that they're essentially pursuing another route of staving off Slaanesh by throwing souls at it while going to heonistic depths even the pre-fall Eldar would frown at.

Vehicles would be redesigned to show more of a common ancestry with the mainline Eldar, but different from just being spiky Wave Serpents. The mental idea I have for a raider is to merge elements of a Wave Serpent and the new IG Valkyrie: forward cockpit with large side hatches to a troop/slave compartment under wings with a large thruster-module in the back. Maybe add some of the overlapping plate armor from the current Raiders to make them stand out a bit more.

Basic troopers lose a lot of the spikes (although keeping the guns with spiked attachments might be cool).

Can't you allready do a "kind" of LATD army by playing traitor guard? I realize that you can't do plague zombies, and can't have a defiler, but you could fairly close to that I think.

I voted Dark Eldar. I think if they do Dark eldar right they would be the next Tyranids(3rd edition explosion), in that they would go from trash to platinum over night.


GG

I've stayed out of this until now. I've long said my peace on LatD (and those of you that haven't need to send a letter to GW and then sign the petition).

I've come to the conclusion that the problem is mostly one of schizophrenic behavior on GW's part.

On one hand, GW has talked lately about how 40K isn't meant for serious gaming. On the other hand, they've worked to constrict army variants, choices within army lists and the total number of armies available. While that's probably mostly an attempt to reduce SKUs, game balance almost has to be to be part of their motivation too.

Likewise, they say that we're hung up too much on "officialdom" and should experiment more. They don't want to be the arbiters on what is and isn't acceptable, they say. They're not even that interested in doing FAQs and errata. On the other hand, they're the company that introduced a lot of these ideas about universal rulesets, official army lists, official miniatures, etc. to miniatures wargaming...and got their customers hung up on these notions.

Why not stop all the schizo behavior, accept the situation and establish two levels of "officiality"? The first could be codex armies, which would be legal for all levels of play, including tournament play. The next level could receive their blessing (and this is very important) for all normal gaming other than tournament play. The latter category could include LatD, Mechanicus, Genestealer Cults, etc..."fun" armies that add variety and color to the game but aren't due to receive a miniatures line.

Yes, I know they've done variant lists before. But the problem was always that they stamped them "unofficial", which made people avoid them. Which I get -- if finding opponents is a problem, why even bother with the army? IMO, they just need to accept that their customer base wants stamps of approval -- again, an attitude they helped create -- and develop a second level of stamp.

If FW is to be the outlet for variant armies (and in that case actual miniatures too), then fine. Great. But FW stuff still has the odor of "unofficial" for too many gamers, whether that's right or wrong. I can't believe that FW wouldn't benefit saleswise from a secondary stamp.

I'm sure that design time is a challenge for even creating a short variant list. But I find it hard to believe that the designers wouldn't like the opportunity to explore old and new areas of the 40K universe. Those guys are writers, and writers want opportunities like that.

generalgrog wrote:Can't you allready do a "kind" of LATD army by playing traitor guard? I realize that you can't do plague zombies, and can't have a defiler, but you could fairly close to that I think.

And no CSMs, no Deamon Princes, no Daemons, no Chaos Hounds, no Chaos Spawn...the list goes on.

IG works okay with a Traitor-heavy army. But not everyone did that. And that's not cheesy or an incorrect usage of the LatD list. The beauty of LatD was their extreme flexibility.

I picked LatD lol. I think that it would be easy to honestly do a WD LatD codex for now and give some love to the emo eldar. Let people go crazy and let IG platoons be elites, have mutants/rebels as troops, and some mutants all around, let some daemons get in there, maybe CSM leading the thing, and you got a nice codex set!

Could combine em, call it the Fallen codex,have LATD, Dark Eldar, 13th company and Fallen Angels..

gorgon wrote:I've stayed out of this until now. I've long said my peace on LatD (and those of you that haven't need to send a letter to GW and then sign the petition).

Give me the link and I'll sign it.

Lost and the Damned are miiiiiiiles more interesting. Last thing we need is more bluddy elves.

That said, poor Dark Eldar players should get an update.

I still own a DE Codex and some models, but I vote for LatD.

Per my 3 wishes :
40k Codex: Lost and the Damned
- Traitor Guard
- Mutants
- Cultists & Daemons
models:
- Traitor Guardsmen (compatible with Cadians & Catachans)
- Mutants (compatible with Cadians & Catachans)
- Cultists (semi-compatible with Cadians)

'nuff said!

gorgon wrote:I've come to the conclusion that the problem is mostly one of schizophrenic behavior on GW's part.

Why not stop all the schizo behavior, accept the situation and establish two levels of "officiality"?

GW wants to do this, but it's really a player issue, with players expecting ongoing support for non-official stuff.

Don't blame GW for the stupidity of its players!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

gorgon wrote:I've come to the conclusion that the problem is mostly one of schizophrenic behavior on GW's part.

Why not stop all the schizo behavior, accept the situation and establish two levels of "officiality"?

GW wants to do this, but it's really a player issue, with players expecting ongoing support for non-official stuff.

Don't blame GW for the stupidity of its players!

I certainly won't blame you for yours, if you don't blame me for mine!