Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm not as sold on the melta-cannon as a lot of you seem to be. Even if it hits more often than a multimelta, it will still miss quite frequently - 4 inch scatter is a lot when you are trying to get a vehicle. Melta suicide squads with 4 melta guns (or 3 and BiD) still seem like more of a sure thing to me.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Cerberus is really just another way of saying Hellhound, and both sound better than 'Devil-fething-Dog'.

Personally I'm surprised we didn't get one called "Hades Canine". More fitting with the theme than Bane Wolf.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Shuma:

Huh?

Even a Demolisher is faster at taking out tanks - 6" move + 24" shot = 30" range.

Hellhound w/ Multimelta is 12" move + half 24" range = 24" range.

And your "rocketing" is only 6" more maximum move (18" vs 12").

Don't forget that the russ can only 6+D6", not 12" for it's maximum move.

Hm. Just reread the Ork Codex after a while. Looks like Weaken Resolve is useless against Orks, because they can always use Mob Rule to ignore having Ld 2.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Hm. Just reread the Ork Codex after a while. Looks like Weaken Resolve is useless against Orks, because they can always use Mob Rule to ignore having Ld 2.

Weaken Resolve is useless against the mobs that are 11+ or larger at the time they take the morale or pinning check but it's very valuable against Biker Nobz and Trukk mounted units that reach your front line on Turn 1 or 2. The footslogging mobs shouldn't reach you until Turns 3 or 4, but yes we will have to kill a lot of them in the usual fashion. On the plus side, the Psyker Battle Squad can drop a Soulstorm pie plate on Fearless troops so the squad is not useless.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And Target Number One for any opponent who has an IQ higher than Alessio's. Pask makes tanks too expensive to be worth taking. A fully kitted out Executioner with Pask clocks in at 300 points. That's a few points shy of your base level Superheavies. And it's no Land Raider, and no Macharius.

I wouldn't take pask. His only true benefit is not giving up a KP, unlike Chronus.

I tried it out the other night, worked quite well. Not sure what "fully kitted out" means, but mine only cost 220 for Pask , Vanquisher and hull lascannon. Survived numerous Bright Lance hits with nary a single damage result, knocked down wave serpents in spite of the strength and penetration reductions. And while he was shooting at it, the Executioiner and the chimera full of psychic choir had a field day. Sure, I got lucky in that he couldn't roll what he needed. Maybe next time it won't do as well. Don't know yet if it will make the final cut or not. But as of right now, it's competing quite well for a spot as a ranged anti-armor asset in my IG army. And I'm one of those guys that hasn't been using tanks for the last several years, except for a couple of hellhounds since 5th.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Hm. Just reread the Ork Codex after a while. Looks like Weaken Resolve is useless against Orks, because they can always use Mob Rule to ignore having Ld 2.

Wouldn't quite say that. Assuming they live long enough, I'll be using them in conjunction with the Callidus whenever she shows up. Can you imagine hitting a Nob Biker squad with the Neural Shredder after reducing their LD to a 2. Ignores cover, Instant Death (ST 8 vs LD 2) so no FNP, just mean and nasty.

I see that Hardened Veteran squads are now a seperate Troops choice (unless I missed something). This is a mixed blessing IMO.

George Spiggott wrote: This is a mixed blessing IMO.

Indeed ?

Cryptic posting FTW though !

I don't mind the hellhound range nerf that much. I still plan to run 3 in my 2000 list (as all 3 FA slots so it's not a squadron). I just bought my 3rd. I'll see how it goes though, I might decide to swap one for a vendetta later and save the 3 for Apocalypse.

I will probably add a russ with Pask too, but I think if I do that I will make it a Punisher since all those bazillion bullets will probably benefit a lot from BS4.

reds8n wrote: Indeed? Cryptic posting FTW though!

My Hardened Veterans have lost half their options, off the top of my head Deep Strike, Close Combat weapons and Stormbolters have gone. Of the three I have I can only field two and one of them (Shotguns and Meltaguns) near useless and the other (Shotguns, Plasmaguns and Missile Launcher) took a swift one to the points cost. Bizarrely Carapace Armour has gone up in points.

All my Stormtroopers must now be Elites which along with their new (dumb) anti MEQ role means that they'll be sidelined.

I could rework my 4th edition Stormtrooper/Veterans platoon rules and just ignore whole sections of the codex out of hand.

Overall my Imperial Guard Army went up by a couple of hundred points over the 11,000 or so that I own dispite having to write off a whole squad and about 15-20 missing wargear options (stormbolters bolt pistols and lasguns for the most part).

Perversely my Squats lost only a couple of bolt pistols so making them work in 5th edition will be pretty easy.

George's instant review? Piece of !

Oh wow, the above posts just made me realize how devastating the psychic choir would be to bike nob armies. -7 LD then a tank shock or a pin test.

Could this be an actual honest and simple way to no contest defeat nob bikers?

ShumaGorath wrote:Oh wow, the above posts just made me realize how devastating the psychic choir would be to bike nob armies. -7 LD then a tank shock or a pin test.

Could this be an actual honest and simple way to no contest defeat nob bikers?

You can't tank shock a unit after using Weaken Resolve on them for what should be an obvious reason.

Oh yeah. Well pin tests are still pretty viable.

Aren't Nob Bikers Fearless? Kinda pointless to tank shock them if they are. Personally, I think the Weaken Resolve and Callidus Neural Shredder is the way to go.................

Aren't Nob Bikers Fearless? Kinda pointless to tank shock them if they are. Personally, I think the Weaken Resolve and Callidus Neural Shredder is the way to go.................

Nothing says that you cannot take 2 CCS and each would then be able to take advisors. RAW seem to implicate that their abilities would then stack. -2 to enemy reserve rolls? Yes please! What do you think?

Agreed. However lots of people seem to think otherwise..

The thought process behind that being that if you take two advisors, as soon as -1 was reached it would meet the requirements for both Advisors.

In other words:

-1 + -1 = -1

don_mondo wrote:Aren't Nob Bikers Fearless? Kinda pointless to tank shock them if they are. Personally, I think the Weaken Resolve and Callidus Neural Shredder is the way to go.................

No just a rerollable LD 10 as far as I know. Their leadership is actually their big weakness.

Maybe I'm thinking of regular Ork Bikers then.

All orks are only fearless if they number 11+ in their mob ( MDG aside perhaps ? From memory he's the only fearless ork in the book).

Bikers cap out at 12 for a squadron so a few casualties and their LD drops pretty quick.

ShumaGorath wrote:

No just a rerollable LD 10 as far as I know. Their leadership is actually their big weakness.

Um that's a joke right? Cause rerollable Ld10 + mob roll is pretty damn good.

don_mondo wrote:Maybe I'm thinking of regular Ork Bikers then.

That was the 3rd edition codex. Ork Bikers and anything related to them (Wazzdakka, Koptas, Bikanobs) were fearless because they're all crazy.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

No just a rerollable LD 10 as far as I know. Their leadership is actually their big weakness.

Um that's a joke right? Cause rerollable Ld10 + mob roll is pretty damn good.

Yeah, but not when its on a 700+ point squad of pure death. Their leadership is their big weakness because with a few tank shocks you can run them off the board (assuming you were able to remove the warboss in some way).

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

No just a rerollable LD 10 as far as I know. Their leadership is actually their big weakness.

Um that's a joke right? Cause rerollable Ld10 + mob roll is pretty damn good.

They would be a maximum of LD9 by the time they have to take a morale check for 25% casualties though that takes quite a bit of shooting. On the plus side, a 8 model Psyker Battle Squad would drop that LD down to 2. Even with the Bosspole granting the re-roll in exchange for a wound, the Nobz will probably fall back.

Ubik Lives wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:your "rocketing" is only 6" more maximum move (18" vs 12").

Don't forget that the russ can only 6+D6", not 12" for it's maximum move.

Damn, I missed that in my download.

And for this we gain the amazing ability to fire the hull HB or an overpriced sponson gun alongside the Demolisher Cannon?

Wow.

It is amazing how little mobility Guard are going to have in 5E once this Codex goes official.
___

George Spiggott wrote:I see that Hardened Veteran squads are now a seperate Troops choice (unless I missed something). This is a mixed blessing IMO.

With fixed size of 10 models for higher minimum cost, along with less options, to gain Scoring, "mixed" is indeed the word.

JB wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

No just a rerollable LD 10 as far as I know. Their leadership is actually their big weakness.

Um that's a joke right? Cause rerollable Ld10 + mob roll is pretty damn good.

They would be a maximum of LD9 by the time they have to take a morale check for 25% casualties though that takes quite a bit of shooting. On the plus side, a 8 model Psyker Battle Squad would drop that LD down to 2. Even with the Bosspole granting the re-roll in exchange for a wound, the Nobz will probably fall back.

Dropping their Ld to 2 won't matter, they'll just use the mob count instead.

Wouldn't the Psykers also reduce the mob count Ld as well

Agamemnon2 wrote:

JB wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

No just a rerollable LD 10 as far as I know. Their leadership is actually their big weakness.

Um that's a joke right? Cause rerollable Ld10 + mob roll is pretty damn good.

They would be a maximum of LD9 by the time they have to take a morale check for 25% casualties though that takes quite a bit of shooting. On the plus side, a 8 model Psyker Battle Squad would drop that LD down to 2. Even with the Bosspole granting the re-roll in exchange for a wound, the Nobz will probably fall back.

Dropping their Ld to 2 won't matter, they'll just use the mob count instead.

Mob Rule just makes the squad size into the LD value instead of their base LD. It is still affected by LD modifiers. If it didn't work that way, Orks would count as Stubborn for morale checks when they lose an Assault. If you let opponents pull that canard on you, you will not win many battles versus Orks.

PASK?

huh