How do you defeat a Plague Marine army?

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**Liquidwulfe**

As Tau, I focus fire down one squad at a time, with assaulty units taking priority. My railguns remove every vehicle you have from the game rather quickly. After that, its all about being more mobile than you.

**warpcrafter**

ChaosismyAntidrug wrote:Being a long time deathguard player I will tell you what I do with my plague marines to keep them from meeting their demise too soon.

First, protect your transports, with out your rhinos you are a sitting duck for all of the ap2 and str 8+ templates out there. Second, Patience is key. Plague Marines will almost always be out numbered don't attack before you are ready if you don't have an overwhelming force in a specific location back away/ hide until you can get another unit to support you in the attack. Attempting to be strong every where is to be weak everywhere -- Sun Tzu. Third, always have an counter assault unit waiting. Having blight grenades helps you weather the initial charge, but in general plague marines are not going to be winning any drawn out hand to hand. Luckily in the CSM codex we have a lot of units that fill this role splendidly, I have used almost everything for this role Khorne berzerkers work great but are not very fluffy, one of my more effective units for this has been a 14 man squad of normal CSM, they can really throw out a lot of attacks and will make even high toughness/ 2+ save units think twice before charging. Fourth, Prioritize your targets!!!! this may seem like a no brainer but I think it warrants mention. For a Plague heavy list the priorities fall into two categories: Things that ignore FNP and things that don't. Obviously focus on silencing/ killing the units that have a High concentration of Ap2 or Power weapons first, luckily there are not many armies that can have a lot of both.

A tactic I like to use against assaulty armies is, I like to pull a trick from the Conestoga wagon days. Get into position Make a line with your rhinos anchored on the ends with predators or vindicators and jump out into the little fort you just made. If you moved Over six inches with your rhinos you most CC anti-tank will have issues killing the rhino wall leaving your opponent out in the open during the next turn for you to bolter down.

Your wisdom has left me inspired. I will give my Plague Marines a couple more chances. Thanks.

**Pipboy101**

Well, if you want a cheap punch I have used a summoned greater deamon to good use to support my Plauge Marines. He draws alot of fire which allow the marines to move to objects, closer to the enemy or toward cover. Plus only being 100 points he is a great choice.

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

warpcrafter wrote:Of course, their not as worthless as Khorne Berserkers.

Nice to see someone finally say that other than me. Plaguers are sadly the only cult troops who can really justify themselves except Nose Marines standing still for 5 turns of the game.

**GeneralRetreat**

The Space Marine Honor Guard (taken with a chapter master) promises to be Godly against Plague Marines. All powerweapons, some relic blades, a Champion with WS5 and Digital Weapons, and 2+ armor saves, and a hard as nails Chapter Master.

Calgar comes to mind, but of course, there are much cheaper options.

**Raxmei**

Razerous wrote:I think the colossus and the eradicator will have similiar effects on plague marines, although the eradictor will hit more generally & be harder to kill.

But between cover saves & FNP... they will kill comparative amounts.

But as Cover is not constant, unlike FNP & the eradictor will live longer due to its improved armor, the eradictor should win out.

The Eradicator is only Ap4. It'll allow plague marines to take armor saves and FNP. The Collossus denies plague marines both cover and armor saves, leaving just FNP. It's also slightly cheaper, though as you point out it is more vulnerable.

If you meant to say Executioner, for 50 points over the Collossus it had better be more effective. But against plague marines an ordinary battle tank does pretty much the same thing. Neither will allow them an armor save and each denies FNP for different reasons, which leaves 36" heavy 3 blast vs 72" ordnance 1 blast as the only meaningful difference versus this target. And 50 points.

Heh, just noticed that the battle tank and Collossus cost the same. Both wound plague marines on a 2+ and are Ap3 but one denies cover saves while the other denies FNP, which brings us to that stuff you said earlier.

**phillpowell**

wow, some fantastic point and tips there! thanks guys, hopefully i shall start to win more than i draw

My main concern so far has been the truely APPALING terminator lord. if you add up his kills in ALL my games he has not come close to making back his points nor has his termy sqd. they either get shot to death, assaulted with PW weilding SM HQ choices (which have high 'I' values and lower points, meaning that when i get to strike back...there is nothing left) or over run by 40 IG for heavens sake. so I am dumping him quick smart for a CHEAPER DP with MoN, wings and warptime. I know everyone does that, but then there is a reason for it. Its by far the best option we have it seems.
The one massive plus point for me has been the performance of my 2 basic PM squads. 7 PM's (no champs) each with 2 plasma guns (191pts). They have out lived, out fought and out killed every other unit in my army. they either stand and fire or run (first turn) into possition, then if the enemy gets too close they walk backwards firing, often into terrain meaning that even if my opponent can assault me, he has to roll a 5/6 to be able to, when he doesnt i get another 4 plasma shots which usually does for him. If you set up 2 or 3 PM sqds all close to each other, fire supporting each other they destroy everything that tries to get near them. Fantastic way to deal with the SM HQ high'I' value power weapon, storm shields, 2+ save, 4+inv save ubber squads of death that shouldnt be in a 1500pt battle frankly. I mean, 1500pt is a skermish, Calgar isnt gonna be there for heavens sake!

again, many many thanks guys

**DarkHound**

1500 is an actual battle, and that is the minimum points required for Calgar to show up. And the scary squads have 3+ Invuls.

What is your Terminators build that lets them kill you before you swing back? You should only have a couple Powerfists in a 5 man squad, and your Lord is I5 for Nurgle's sake.

Without proper target saturation getting a Daemon Prince isn't such a great idea. If you don't have a lot of large tanks, the Daemon Prince is going to the top of the target prioritization for enemy anti-tank.

**Pipboy101**

Running Calgar at 1500 pts seems like alot of points that could be use else where. He might as well use Abby in his list if there is a good chance of Calgar showing up for the party. If your enemy is going to show up with a beat stick make sure you show up with a bigger one.

**Railguns**

I've been thinking about 3 squads in Rhino's advancing in a line, with a Land Raider on each end covering the sides, beng followed by a winged prince and whatever other support units I need getting cover from the formation and the tanks getting cover from smoke for a turn, then hopefully forcing the enemy into a short range confrontation. Hopefully with Berserkers or Noise Marines as cleanup crews sitting in the Raiders. Is this a sounds plan?

**drummerholt1234**

Let me make it simple for y'all....you don't....

haha jp

**kaun666**

Orks: Boomguns and Killikannons, Plus PKs and Killi Kans. Heck even Big Choppas and Rocket Launcha's

Basicly, when the strength is at least 7 and AP is at least 3, then the Plague Marine will die just as easy as a Grot my friend. That's how I kill Ultra Marines too : D

**Pipboy101**

The boomgun still allow FNP save.

There is still one unit that we all have forgotten that can harrass and kill Plague Marine units without being a uber expensive HQ or long range template armor. That is Tau Crisis Suit Teams. I always carry one unit of Anti-Tank and one Anti-Horde Units. Now you can configure these to kill Plague Marines and they are cheep compaired to a space puppy HQ unit I saw that was said to be able to take on a unit of plague marines or even most HQ Units. For alittle over 200 points it is three Crisis Suits with a Tau Sgt. All have multi trackers Fusion Blasters and a Plasma Rifle. Give the Sgt the upgrade to target two units at the same time and you have a Plague Marine Killing unit which will bypass the FNP since all their AP is 2 and 1. So deep strike within 12" of the rhino, allow the Rails to pop the tank and then target the juicy bits that spill out. If the railguns fail then the Tau Sgt can try first with his Fusion Blaster and Plasma Rifle and the squad target something else. Also this unit is great against DPs, Greater Daemons and Oblits since all thier fire which will wound on a 2, 3 or 4 will force them to take their 5+ Inv Save.

The other type of Crisis Suit that will be hell on Plague Marines is the Anit-Horde all with Burst Cannon and Flamer. That is 3 templats and 9 S5 shots into a Plague Marine Squad. Even though they get their FNP it is nothing they can ignore.

If the Plague Marines charge into them the Crisis Suits have a 3+ save, T4 and 2 Wounds apiece. Yes the Plague Champion with PF will wreck shop the damage will be done. Plus, the turn that the suits come in they still get thier jet pack move in the assault phase so they can Deep strike within 12" of the unit, unleash hell and then fall back getting themselves out of that juicy template target.

This is the only low cost unit other than Drop Pod Sternguard with combimelta that would make me flinch with a Plague Marine Army.

**DarkHound**

I think we need to state something at this point. It must be atleast S8 or atleast AP2 for a weapon to ignore a Plague Marines FnP. S7 AP3 doesn't cut it. S7 that doesn't ignore armor is REALLY not going to cut it.

**Pipboy101**

May anti-horde unit forces the Plague Marines to take saves. With three flamers that is alot of hits along with the burst cannons that is alot of possible failed saves.

Lets do the math:
Three flamers in range can hit a possible 6 models each so that it 18 hits.
S4 against T5 the Player needs 5s and 6s so that would be 6 total wounds.
The Plague Marines roll normal saves and 2 fail.
FNP saves and 1 fail that.
So 1 dead.

The burst cannons that is 9 shots. 4 1/2 hits rounding down a 4.
S5 vs T5 the Tau needs 4+. So 2 will hit.
The Plague Marine roll normal saves and 1 fail
FNP save and 50/50 chance of fail
1 Possible fail.

Not as good as the Anti-Tank squad but this is a game of odds and

possible dice rolls.

**phillpowell**

DarkHound, i made the mistake of building my terminators with what came in the box, too many PF a Chain fist, a few combi weapons etc. the lord have a combi melta and PF. so that 'I' 1....sigh. he will just be another grunt soon and not a lord model.

with hind sight i would have kept them ALL with power weapons a combi melta, or two, but i would keep the heavy flamer.
the lord, either twin claws or a DW. hind sight ROCKS!

**DarkHound**

Greenstuff up the Powerfist and call it a Daemon Weapon. My Stricken Lord has a Chainfist and a claw arm from the Daemonic Mutations Sprue (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1080001&prodId=prod1290060). He runs as a Lord of Nurgle with a Daemon Weapon, or a Terminator Champion with a Chainfist guarding my Sorcerer depending on how I feel like running my army.

For the Terminators you can always cut the Powerfist forearm off and replace it with the Power Weapon forearm.

**phillpowell**

your right DarkHound. and i will. once i have finished my sorcerer, 2 winged DP's, 7 bikes with lord/sorcerer, LR,Pred, 14 chosen, 14 havocs, another 70PM's, FW GUO, 42 rt terminators.......... lol