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Here is large portion of the trade conversation.

I proposed.....
Your (FOW&40KFAN)
vindicator on sprue
Marneus w/honor guard box

for my (oldmanultramarine)
10 burna boyz
aobr nobs x10
bits for tank busta boyz and 5 lootas
*****
FOW&40KFAN sent......
That deal sounds really good to me So as far as I'm concerned its a done deal on my end. I will get them together for you and can send them out the same day you plan to send the Ork stuff to me. All I need is your address and confirmation from you that the deal is good for you. So thanks and let me know when you are going to ship yours out and what service we should use :
(priority mail,standard usps first class, etc) and I will do the same. So like I said I just need your address.....I can ship out as soon as monday, I will just wait on you to let me know. My address is:
Chris Jensen
PO Box 209
Rushville,NY 14544
Thanks CJ
******
Oldmanultramarine sent....
Deal is fine by me.

I request that you send first, due to us not knowing each other. This deal goes through without any problems I will have no problem same time sending in future. In my swaps post I have a list of people I have traded with (Dakka members). You can PM them to get any references that I'm legit. Not meant to offend, but I need to built trust. Been ripped off many a time on different forum sites.
******
FOW&40KFAN sent......
I don't know if I'm comfortable sending $80 worth of stuff and then waiting to see if you send mine. Let me think about it.
(followed by)
I can understand your concern....but it was mildly rude the way you worded it, But no worries. Everyone has to start somewhers and yes I'm new to the whole forum trading. Maybe in a week or two when a few of my trades are complete, I will have some good references too. The way Ive been doing it is to send stuff out and both parties provide tracking and delivery confirmation as well. I have some other ways to go, so thanks and I will keep you in mind. Thanks
*******

If you look at the deal it seemed kind of fishy as my side was pretty good and he wanted Ork stuff. I had gut feeling this might be bad. When I requested he send first he pussyfooted and backed out. I sell on ebay and have a flawless record trading online. I keep track within my swap post my trades and the Dakka I traded with. Maybe everyone should start doing that.

Mail fraud is a federal offense and felony. These guys don't realize what they are doing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
He goes to say I was mildly rude with my request. WTF, I sniffed out a scammer and he is offended.

That my friends is the nut low.

Damn I have dealt with FOW&40kfan, i have pm'ed you, SOB's is all i cna say.


Wolf

I have found Chris Jensen's number -and attempting to make contact.

If all fails - we begin step 2.

I always use my B-Town (578), E-bay (237) and soon Rogue Market References, whenever I am going to trade with someone. I always found it funny, how some people get offended whenever I ask them to send first due to my established reference scores.

I'm glad these References do exist. How else can we protect ourselves from these scammers. When I first started the Trading Online thing, I got scammed a few times. Thankfully either did not cost me much, except a little pride.

I strongly suggest everyone to build their references slowly. Do a bunch of small trades, until you have garnered enough of a reference score. And by all means, always leave a reference when the Trade is done.

References are good for you.

I wish DakkaDakka had a reference scoring system.

J

joshuafalcon wrote:

I wish DakkaDakka had a reference scoring system.

Me too. Aside from BT I do most of my trading here. Luckily I haven't had any problems but I remember seeing FOW&40KFan's post and almost PMed him about a trade. I'm really glad I didn't. It's good to know some folks are getting their stuff back from that other guy, though.

Is anyone planning to prosecute these guys or are they just trying to get your stuff back? If they don't actually get punished for this they may just try it again somewhere else.

joshuafalcon wrote:
I wish DakkaDakka had a reference scoring system.
J

Take a peek at my post

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/230675.page

How I'm keeping my ref's compiled.

Attn everybody -

I got a hold of Chris Jensen - he told me he is going to get back at me.

I will be voicing those parties who have been having nothing but trouble with dealing with him.




Clay Williams:
"He offered me 1 off sprue leman russ and a primed chimera for a battle wagon"

Wolf

unconfirmed lost items yet.


Uriel Flames

Sent Trukk + money (money recieved back)
was suppose to get 3 killa kans.

Thanks for all your hard work RM, its helps to have people like you in the community.

This was not done by a solo individual but a team of our staff who have various backgrounds and ways of gathering information and contact.

I already pm'd all people - but for those who haven't are still waiting, I have a message:

"Ok...I definetly get the point. If possible, can you get me a list of the names of the people affected and PM them to me as well as contact info. Emails, amounts owed, addresses, and which site they are from and I will come up with a resolution by weeks end to satisfy everyone. I have made as many positive transactions as negative ones and some of the negative ones have recieved a good amount of the payments back in return. As I said I definetly get the point and am asking until weeks end to come up with solutions to these trades. The contact info and amounts owed would be very nice. Some members do not get back to me when I contact them and go straight to you guys. Thanks"


We are stepping it up - and wanted to help Dakka out.

Granted - we aren't always guaranteed and will never promise such but we can definetly help you out a bit at least.

There are people who are trying to take advantage of it - and time to stamp down some.

Am i being thick here, but the police are in on this arnt they?

No - it didn't reach that point.

As Randy rohring - has sent back all people items before that step has been made.

Furthermore - i finally got in contact with Chris Jensen and he is complying.

If they both return trades, and items and what not, we can't do anything after than that.

How I got them to comply?
I do not make any killing,death, harassment, or abuse threats. None of that at all.
I simply show individuals that they are caught red handed and that I have all but too much information about them, that can be built up against them.
I make them crap their pants with how much information I have gathered and even found from them.

Information Tech education pays off ;P.


The police was the next step as an ultimatum as I have outlined to the scamming individuals.

perhaps im wrong to say this but surely you should involve them? even if theyve paid back what they owe, whats to stop them just doing this somewhere else?
if i mugged old ladies, but when caught said "im terribly sorry- i never thought id get caught, il give it all back" it wouldnt cut it would it.

from reading the thread i have nothing but good to say as to what youve done-ebay wouldnt give a stuff. Ive only heard good things about RM and this just cements it even further.

I just think as seeing as were talking about a serious amount of cash (i may be wrong, just going on what ive seen on the thread) why exactly are they escaping police involvement?

RogueMarket wrote:If they both return trades, and items and what not, we can't do anything after than that.

You've collected a lot of evidence that seems to indicate that these guys are engaged in a significant amount of mail fraud. On behalf of all future people who will have to deal with these guys, please involve the police.

As one who is involved, I'm fine with getting my stuff back.

Had I not been able to, police would have been fine.

Stop back seat driving and be thankful someone is willing to go the extra mile.

No - i think they are fine - no need for anyone to get offensive.

Lets keep it civil.

Thats fine - we will inform the police of hte happenings. And compile information which we have.

I also wanted to note - the Postal office has already been notified - thats how we were able to hold on some packages from preventing shipment to Randy.

And how we saved half of the packages to randy.

I then instructed randy to go to postal and deny those packages. He tampered with about 4 out of the 8. We also hit up ebay to inform about the theft ebay account but they haven't done much.

As we see in the ebay link, hes still selling stuff.

Awareness is what

I know there is only one gaming store within the proximity and i will be sending a letter with information - hopefully to keep things and the community aware.

Now - we will see if they comply with their message they sent to me.

Tesla, which store did you inform? There's Boldo's, Millennium Games and (I think) Coyote's Den near the three.

Remember how I'm 30 minutes away from them both?

I just wanted to post a tip or two. Going through paypal, is a awesome buffer just in case you get screwed, as you can contest the payment made. Second use a credit card instead of a debit card, attached to the paypal account, as this is yet another buffer because should your sender not send the item and it not arrive at the appropriate time, you can call the company up and refuse payment (obviously, if the item does arrive, just at a late date, send the money again OR they'll come after you, works both ways). All of which needs to be back up by tracking codes or there lack of, with the print out of email/private messages exchanges should that person refuse to reply.

My father has done this plenty of times, with items that never came, items not being the specified item (box of confetti) or if the item was demolished (better take pictures for proof obviously, if its a legitmate company and refuse to send a replacement, might try to contest it). The unspecific item or there lack of, is even worse then not sending something, as its lying about the contents. USPS takes this very seriously and that will only compounded on top of the fraud. I hope you get the bastards.

Personally for me, I would avoid big trades in the excess of 150 dollars. Also, I do this for everyone, once a trade or transaction occurs, have that person as a reference for you. Frankly, I don't know why Dakka Dakka doesnt have a swap shop reference page in the profile section, just like eBay does. This would slash fraud in half.

"EDIT" PM ya Roguemarket, passing along some thoughts.

Backdraft005 wrote: Frankly, I don't know why Dakka Dakka doesnt have a swap shop reference page in the profile section, just like eBay does. This would slash fraud in half.

Dakka is predominantly a 40k community focused on discussion of the game and hobby. The Swap Shop (as it is now) is not a focus of the site and is merely a forum section used to facilitate trading between forum members. Dakka is NOT dedicated to being a trading site, and as such, explains why the traffic in this section is relatively light and why Dakka for the most part holds a "Caveat Emptor" Policy here.

Having said this, if you've suggestions for improving this section, I recommend posting your suggestions in the Nuts & Bolts section of Dakka and maybe you can talk with Legoburner about potential features that could be added.

RogueMarket wrote:Attn everybody -

I got a hold of Chris Jensen - he told me he is going to get back at me.

At you or too you? ?

haha i meant, he was going to get back in touch with me.

Not going to GET BACK and attack me.

lol.

Would be scary... RAWR.

Now I am a little creeped out... On Bartertown.com, there are warnings NOT to deal with anyone named or FROM Rogue Market. Specifically 'Chobo' and a few other people/aliases who I see making deals CONSTANTLY on other sites and sending me unsolicited adds and offers.

Here's the link through Bartertown:

http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=86791

I'm confused.

Well, unless they're all the same person and he has an incredible amount of time on his hands to scam people playing miniature war game's - I'll run with this.

Backdraft005 wrote: Going through paypal, is a awesome buffer just in case you get screwed

they dont care unless your item is under a certain amount- i belive its £150.

my gf bought me an ipod-bnib as the listing- payed 200 odd quid for it, so when they turned up with scratches to the back,damage no earphones and a flat battery (in the picture it was full) we were as you would imagine, annoyed. seller said "very sorry, very sorry....dont do refunds" had to open a dispute and then go to paypal who said that they would only pay a proportion and we had to wait till 2 weeks ago (the item was bought last october) to get the rest. paypal is just another way for ebay to get theyre pound of flesh. but i agree completely with paying by credit card. frineds of mine bought a bed from MFI and found out it went bust on news, but as theyd paid by credit card they were covered.

lictors_lovemachine wrote: Now I am a little creeped out... On Bartertown.com, there are warnings NOT to deal with anyone named or FROM Rogue Market. Specifically 'Chobo' and a few other people/aliases who I see making deals CONSTANTLY on other sites and sending me unsolicited adds and offers.

Here's the link through Bartertown:

http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=86791

I'm confused.

Whoah.

Hold on.

Bartertown does not have a beef with traders on Rogue Market. We've never said not to join the site (though, we have said to deal carefully with people who do not have confirmed or "generic" ratings), and we have never sid anything negative (or remotely close to negative) about traders there.
We believe that there is room for WAY more than two online gaming trade sites (with BT and RM being the 2 I'm referring to) and think that everyone should deal with caution.

We do NOT speak against the SITE "Rogue-Market," nor (most of) its' staff.
We have an issue with ONE individual on that site. Period. That is as far as it goes.

Heck, on BTown, I myself have dealt RECENTLY with one of Rogue Market's staff members in a VERY pleasant manner.

If someone sends you an unsolicited and/or suspicious ad or offer on BTown, please contact an Administrator there (preferably myself or Porkuslime). Please, do not take it up publicly on other sites.

For the record, anyone following that link will discover that it supports what I reiterate here... We do NOT hold any grudge against the members of Rogue-Market and we do not (and will not) advise anyone NOT to join the site or trade there.

Anyone with questions, please PM me here or on BTown.


Eric

dirkthe1 wrote:

Backdraft005 wrote: Going through paypal, is a awesome buffer just in case you get screwed

they dont care unless your item is under a certain amount- i belive its £150.

my gf bought me an ipod-bnib as the listing- payed 200 odd quid for it, so when they turned up with scratches to the back,damage no earphones and a flat battery (in the picture it was full) we were as you would imagine, annoyed. seller said "very sorry, very sorry....dont do refunds" had to open a dispute and then go to paypal who said that they would only pay a proportion and we had to wait till 2 weeks ago (the item was bought last october) to get the rest. paypal is just another way for ebay to get theyre pound of flesh. but i agree completely with paying by credit card. frineds of mine bought a bed from MFI and found out it went bust on news, but as theyd paid by credit card they were covered.

paypal has its goods and bads as you noted.

Nothing is ever fully fullproof or protected - but i've learned that if you make dealings with people - always get their contact information.

MagickalMemories wrote:

lictors_lovemachine wrote: Now I am a little creeped out... On Bartertown.com, there are warnings NOT to deal with anyone named or FROM Rogue Market. (...edit...)

(...edit...)

We do NOT speak against the SITE "Rogue-Market," nor (most of) its' staff.
We have an issue with ONE individual on that site. Period. That is as far as it goes.

Heck, on BTown, I myself have dealt RECENTLY with one of Rogue Market's staff members in a VERY pleasant manner.

(...edit...)

Anyone with questions, please PM me here or on BTown.

Eric

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/242419.page

above thread: MagickalMemories wrote:
I find it hilarious, being that they are a site that refers to another trade site as "Nazi's" for their rule enforcement (on the "Nazi's" forum, you'd have gotten a brief suspension and nothing more).

Shows how some sites don't walk the walk and talk the talk as they claim.

You're not missing anything there , really, anyway.

Eric

Yes, clearly. No issues.

Now back to our originally posted topic - how are these people using a PO Box to accept mail and then return it saying "it's damaged"? Are the clerks there that oblivious or do they not have to sign for mail at theirs?

Want to keep things clean - and a clear thread for this heh. So won't comment on the above, leave it as be.



-----------------
@ iron fist

I don't quite know - but as seen its been working.

Some people thing its a hoax and that i'm lieing.

But clearly - you'll see here there are at least 4 people affected by these individuals.

Chris J - is using po box.

While Randy, isn't.

I will also note this - that they HAVe been paying for postage back. They aren't doing traditional RTS return to sender without paying for postage.

But also note.. these guys live in a town with like 10k people or less...

This is why when I had the Crypt of Crap, I wrote down the agreed models and monies in my little book of evil ideas, as well as username.

More for my own peace of mind, to make sure I was definitely sending the right thing to the right person at the right address for the right price.

Should something go awry, even something like me being a lazy sod and not sending it out for a couple of days, I could keep track. Once receipt was confirmed for goods, I scored it out. Sorted!

........ But also note.. these guys live in a town with like 10k people or less.....

I love this hunt down the bad guys stuff, makes me feel good that nice people are using their own time to try and make everything better for us all - however prevention must be the key in future.

So Roguemarket - what will you reveal next about these two??

MagickalMemories wrote:

Whoah.

Hold on.

Bartertown does not have a beef with traders on Rogue Market. We've never said not to join the site (though, we have said to deal carefully with people who do not have confirmed or "generic" ratings), and we have never sid anything negative (or remotely close to negative) about traders there.
We believe that there is room for WAY more than two online gaming trade sites (with BT and RM being the 2 I'm referring to) and think that everyone should deal with caution.

We do NOT speak against the SITE "Rogue-Market," nor (most of) its' staff.
We have an issue with ONE individual on that site. Period. That is as far as it goes.

Heck, on BTown, I myself have dealt RECENTLY with one of Rogue Market's staff members in a VERY pleasant manner.

If someone sends you an unsolicited and/or suspicious ad or offer on BTown, please contact an Administrator there (preferably myself or Porkuslime). Please, do not take it up publicly on other sites.

For the record, anyone following that link will discover that it supports what I reiterate here... We do NOT hold any grudge against the members of Rogue-Market and we do not (and will not) advise anyone NOT to join the site or trade there.

Anyone with questions, please PM me here or on BTown.


Eric

Wasn't attacking you directly Eric. Just an FYI.

I jump in to help a few members who get ripped off on B-Town and then I have a personal issue on my end, messing up a couple trades, and you come after me like a felon. Wonder why I don't go to Mods for help anymore?

There's my beef, and what I read, does sound like what I posted. I could be wrong.

*Edit* I see my mistake...
Sorry 'Rogue Market'. I meant to say: Trading with that [Chobo] person on Rogue Market. Not NAMED 'Rogue Market'. Sorry.

Lictor...