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I am wondering if podding wolves would be effective??

Right now, I am thinking about a bunch of Grey Hunters in pods with some supporting characters.

Thoughts??

Andilus Greatsword wrote:My big question - how many months are we going to have to wait for GW to release Thunderwolf Calvary models? Are we going to have to convert our own from Canis?


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jp400 wrote:Yeah,
That isnt broken at all.....

5 Thunderwolf Calvary cost 250pts, and that's BASE. No upgrades, nothing. It's a huge, and risky, point sink, but it can pay in dividends. Much like any of the other "broken" Space Wolf units.

Probably ages to wait for GW ones, but I've been told FW have some being released soon, probably as soon as Games Day England.

Your point of the expense of this unit outweighs it's "Borkeness". This codex is actually very balanced. I own every 40K book since Rogue Trader and from what I've read it is one of my favourite ones.

Gobstomp420 wrote:Hey radio, thanks for the summary. I was tired of wading through everything. SOme of that stuff seems strong. The Njal's stom and the last laugh, but a lot of it seem pretty cool. I am actually looking forward to this book and I don't even play puppies.

No probs mate, thats why I did it.

The book is easily the most detailed and well put together books since the 2nd Ed books.

yeah it actually looks really good and unique

Blackmoor wrote:As I say whenever a new codex comes out: It is way too early to say if this codex is over powered or not. Talk to me 6 months after the codex is released.

There are a lot of things that are slowing down this army. They really have no long range fire power, and they are almost a pure assault army. Good luck playing a mech Eldar player.

Remember all the nerd rage when psyker battle squads were first talked about? Now you never see them because they are just not worth it.

So people, settle down.

In principle, I agree with you. But it does not take much creativity to put two guys with the "all your skimmers test dangerous every turn" power on the table, along with the mobile autocannon power, and royally bone mech eldar. The wolf player does not make any real sacrifices to do this, either. Toss in the fact that there can be a ton of double melta pod squads that can come in from any angle and mech-anything is in some serious trouble, but the addition of the psycher powers make it especially bad for mech eldar who now face 50% of their powers failing, rather than the normal 33%. These are things that will be effective and used frequently, theory hammer or not.

Now, there are some flaws with the book. Bloodclaws, once the staple troop of the army, are now pretty much backseat to Grey Hunters against anything not horde. The Russ is gone. If a Wolf player for some reason does not feel like fielding any drop pods, LRCs, Melta Speeders, or Rhinos he will still have issues dealing with distant mobile vehicles, though I have not seen a Wolf army without all of those things in abundance in years. The characters can be point sinks if you don't keep them cheap. The Sagas should have been free with the Oaths as mandatory drawbacks (why bother puting the oaths in the rules section if they have no game impact?). The rear attacking scouts were nerfed into the turf. The Venerable Dreadnaught is an overpriced piece of crap now, especially stacked against a standard issue siege dread. There is still no real point in taking the Wolf Captain equivalent. Some of the rules are shoddily written. The overall fist spamming has been greatly reduced. The special characters are so powerful that there is no reason not to take them, further entrenching us in SpecialCharacterHammer mode. On the plus side, the fluff section is nice and the book is better organized than most of the rescent codexes.

I just hate the way every SM book has been getting magic bullets for dealing with Xenos armies without having to actually adapt their lists. Even the most rescent Xenos lists (Orks and Eldar) have to make fairly massive sacrifices to have the capability to effectively deal with non-MEQ armies. The Wolves are more heinous, but the loyalists also have units with variable abilities that make sure they are useful no matter what is across the table from them, picking the perfect Thunderfire Round/Psychic Power setup/Combat Squad setup to address the (supposedly) more specialist xenos forces. Maybe my view is more jaded, since I hang out at the Battle Bunker (aka buy our models day care center for ADD kids), but its hard not to look at this book and think about how out of control the MEQ power creep has gotten in the last two books (and 5th edition) and see it as a mechanism to sell more MEQ models.

How is this codex bad at all? Exspensive hqs? Not all of them are exspensive - simply take one or dont take the sp. character ones.

This codex pretty much beasts on CSM codex and Gav thorpe = fail now.

His excuse can't hold this behind.


155 10 man Grey Huter Squads with 2x meltas >> a lot of basic marine squads out there lol.

Cuz they have CSM wargear + counter attack + wolf guard attachment + 2 cheap as hell meltas.




normal SM Sergant with a powerfist = 51 pts

CSM Champion w/ powerfist = 55 pts

SW Wolf guard with power fist = 38 pts




I'm not saying - SW is BROKEN.

I will say that it will cancel a lot of current codex's now.

Like why even play Blood Angels anymore too?!

haha

I've been trying to find an army that will pwn the SW and TBH, I'm having trouble finding one.
The SW appear to have an answer to everything and that answer appears to be very one sided and very powerful.
If you face Eldar and Tau, the SW players take Njal and cripple their skimmers. They also take a mech based force and take Blood Claws by the dozen.
Against Guard, I'd take a Cavalry based force as they can close in quickly and rip the poor Guardsmen to pieces.
MEQs are the problem as their armour is kinda hard to deal with, but SW have a lot more PW than them.

This power codex creep could be bad as at the moment this codex is sitting on top with the nids next.
I'm not looking fwd to the nod dex as it might be incredibly OTT.


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Btw I totally agree with rogue market.
From further reading the power gap between this and any other codex is huge. Saying that tho, the average SW army is a ton smaller than most other armies as a lot of players will want to take the unique SW units.

Some people claim that SW have no anti tank.


215 pts can buy me a 6-man 5x lascannon Long Fang Team.


A normal SM devastator squad can't - due to the built in SGT squad.


heh insane in the cranium!

A Space Marine Devastator squad can only take four Lascannons, but they also have a Signum, can combat squad to replicate the Long Fang's ability to split fire, and split incoming fire amongst themselves. They can also take bullet-catchers, so that the squad doesn't lose a Heavy Weapon with every wound. A bit of a dead heat that.

So, models riding wolves have Str10 fists and Str6 Frost weapon things? That's kind of interesting...

Also, how does one determine which model kills Lukas if he falls to a bunch of tac marines or something by taking 4 wounds? Is there a little more clarity on what that means?

Some people claim that SW have no anti tank.

It's not that the SW don't have anti-tank, it's that they lack long ranged fire support, for the most part.


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Wehrkind wrote:So, models riding wolves have Str10 fists and Str6 Frost weapon things? That's kind of interesting...

Also, how does one determine which model kills Lukas if he falls to a bunch of tac marines or something by taking 4 wounds? Is there a little more clarity on what that means?

If they're all the same model in base contact, I'd just pick one. Doesn't really matter which.

But you'd have to be an idiot to charge Lukas, just shoot the er.

Seems to be the answer to the army. Shoot them before they reach you. It'd be fun to send the Rhinos forward while everyone hangs back and shoots the tank-shocked Space Wolves.

Nurglitch wrote:Seems to be the answer to the army. Shoot them before they reach you. It'd be fun to send the Rhinos forward while everyone hangs back and shoots the tank-shocked Space Wolves.

That's pretty much how Space Wolves have always operated, from my experience anyway. Survive the first couple shooting phases and then rip your enemy to shreds in CQC.

Ok I will try asking this here as the thread is not as huge or off topic as the others.

Is the wording you used about troop payloads correct to your knowledge? I ask this because there has been talk like "Either you take a WGL and one special weapon, or you take two specials and no leader". In the SM codex you start with 4 tac marines and 1 sargeant and may add 5 tac marines, which totals 10 and you get both special weapons correct? The wording you used said if the GH squad numbers 10 "MODELS" then you get the extra weapon. Is the WGL counted in that 10 models? You also said under their entry that they may be "added" to units, but this still does not answer my question about counting towards the total.

Basically asking if someone with access to a book can verify the wording. If it is as the standard codex we would get 2 specials AND the WGL. If it is adding the leader after the fact and the wording does not read "10 models" then I would conceed that we do not get the weapon. I would also understand due to our leaders being alot more versatile than a SM tac squad leader, but I am just looking for some more confirmation before I go model/paint the 6 guys to replace all my extra special weapons I will soon have.

I think it would be Str 9 fists like fists and furious charge, but yeah Str 6 frost weapons.

Kaotik wrote:Ok I will try asking this here as the thread is not as huge or off topic as the others.

Is the wording you used about troop payloads correct to your knowledge? I ask this because there has been talk like "Either you take a WGL and one special weapon, or you take two specials and no leader". In the SM codex you start with 4 tac marines and 1 sargeant and may add 5 tac marines, which totals 10 and you get both special weapons correct? The wording you used said if the GH squad numbers 10 "MODELS" then you get the extra weapon. Is the WGL counted in that 10 models? You also said under their entry that they may be "added" to units, but this still does not answer my question about counting towards the total.

Basically asking if someone with access to a book can verify the wording. If it is as the standard codex we would get 2 specials AND the WGL. If it is adding the leader after the fact and the wording does not read "10 models" then I would conceed that we do not get the weapon. I would also understand due to our leaders being alot more versatile than a SM tac squad leader, but I am just looking for some more confirmation before I go model/paint the 6 guys to replace all my extra special weapons I will soon have.

WGL is NOT an option entry in the GHunter's entry.


Its under the WGuard listing in elites - as a mock up termie squad potentially.

Says you can divide it into certain squads.

You can have have an 11 man squad with a WGL leader.

Howver yo cannot rhino it up.

But you do get that free 2nd melta.

It's not that the SW don't have anti-tank, it's that they lack long ranged fire support, for the most part.

I don't quite exactly follow up with this only because of a few things...


What made up SM long ranged fire support? Tactical squad with a heavy weapon? GHunters dont have that.. but htey got two sp. weps very cheap.

But the long fangs make up far for it.


1. Less pts cuz they dont need a sgt mandatory built in
2. Split fire
3. Can take 5 weapons instead of 4 in the traditional SM codex.
4. You can toss in a Wolf guard with the Long fangs with cylcone missiles. hahaha.

SW also has the good old other vehicles as welll.

Dunno if anyone else has posted this, so here goes.

Started work at my local GW today, and my first task was to assemble a legal squad of 10 Grey Hunters from half a Wolf Pack box, and a Tactical Box.

Grabbed book, pored over it, and settled on the squad having 1 x Power Fist, 1 x Plasma Gun, 1 x Flamer* 1 x Plasma Pistol and 1 x Wolf Banner, with an attached Wolf Guard wielding a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield.

From half the Wolf Pack, I was able to successfully construct all 11 models looking distinctly Space Wolf. You'll have to be careful with some of the heads though, as the flow of the hair restricts them to certain facings, which can be a pain. Overall pretty impressed with the flexibility of the set, though I was slightly suspect about the heads fitting into their sockets properly. Might have just been the way I was constructing them. Nothing major to worry about, as at worst a little blob of Greenstuff or even Blu-Tak will sort this.

RogueMarket wrote:

Kaotik wrote:Ok I will try asking this here as the thread is not as huge or off topic as the others.

Is the wording you used about troop payloads correct to your knowledge? I ask this because there has been talk like "Either you take a WGL and one special weapon, or you take two specials and no leader". In the SM codex you start with 4 tac marines and 1 sargeant and may add 5 tac marines, which totals 10 and you get both special weapons correct? The wording you used said if the GH squad numbers 10 "MODELS" then you get the extra weapon. Is the WGL counted in that 10 models? You also said under their entry that they may be "added" to units, but this still does not answer my question about counting towards the total.

Basically asking if someone with access to a book can verify the wording. If it is as the standard codex we would get 2 specials AND the WGL. If it is adding the leader after the fact and the wording does not read "10 models" then I would conceed that we do not get the weapon. I would also understand due to our leaders being alot more versatile than a SM tac squad leader, but I am just looking for some more confirmation before I go model/paint the 6 guys to replace all my extra special weapons I will soon have.

WGL is NOT an option entry in the GHunter's entry.


Its under the WGuard listing in elites - as a mock up termie squad potentially.

Says you can divide it into certain squads.

You can have have an 11 man squad with a WGL leader.

Howver yo cannot rhino it up.

But you do get that free 2nd melta.

Thanks for the info, I assumed it was that way since a WGL >>> Standard Sargeant. Oh well I guess I just have to replace those guys when I build my new units of Skyclaws.


I also thought of sticking the WGL in with the Long Fangs for the Cyclone.

radiohazard wrote:I think it would be Str 9 fists like fists and furious charge, but yeah Str 6 frost weapons.

Well, it looks like the Wolf Riders unit are all Str 5 base, so they definitely are Str10 with fists. I would think with the IC's that the wolf would make them Str5 first, then doubled with the fists, but I don't really know. It will probably end up being an argument in YMDC soon enough.

With Lukas and who killed him it will be an issue when your opponant throws dice for 5 marines, one with melta, and ends up with 4 unsaved wounds. Whoops... didn't seperate attacks, so was it the melta that killed him? What if each had 1 attack, and so each "killed" him? Do only three get pulled, since the first wound wasn't enough to kill him?

With Lukas, if memory serves (and assuming I read it right!) it's anyone and everyone in Base to Base that becomes a fellow casualty, thus the question of who precisely nobbled him shouldn't come up.

And it does pose a rather amusing possibility of deliberately getting him stomped on off a Titan in Apocalypse....or indeed anything big and gribbly in Apocalypse for that matter.

am I the only one who sees a potential rules lawyer abuse? I'm praying that this isn't quoted verbatim because "The Last Laugh" rule as written here doesn't stipulate whether the killer has to be in CC or not:

"Lukas the Trickster - WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A3 Ld8 Sv3+
Blood Claw upgrade. Plasma Pistol, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman, Wolf Claw.
Pelt of the Doppegangrel - Forces the enemy to re-roll successful to-hit rolls.
Rebellious - Causes his Squad to be capped at his Ld8 regardless of other upgrades.
The Last Laugh - On his death Lukas and the model that killed him are removed then both players roll a D6. If the SW player rolls equal to or higher than their opponent, all models within Base to Base contact with Lukas (friend or foe) are removed. "

Read the bold and pray to whatever god you want that this is just a misquote on the part of the OP

Paraphrasing from the OP I think.

Will check the book tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure it stipulates it has to be in HTH combat for that to work.

am I the only one who sees a potential rules lawyer abuse? I'm praying that this isn't quoted verbatim because "The Last Laugh" rule as written here doesn't stipulate whether the killer has to be in CC or not:

"Lukas the Trickster - WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A3 Ld8 Sv3+
Blood Claw upgrade. Plasma Pistol, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman, Wolf Claw.
Pelt of the Doppegangrel - Forces the enemy to re-roll successful to-hit rolls.
Rebellious - Causes his Squad to be capped at his Ld8 regardless of other upgrades.
The Last Laugh - On his death Lukas and the model that killed him are removed then both players roll a D6. If the SW player rolls equal to or higher than their opponent, all models within Base to Base contact with Lukas (friend or foe) are removed. "

Read the bold and pray to whatever god you want that this is just a misquote on the part of the OP

The book states:

"Should lukas EVER be removed from play"

Shooting included.



However, it seems to be fully intended to be straight for CC, hoever it never states that it HAS to be. heh.

Not being rude skip, but have you just read that from the book, or is it from memory/Interweb rumours?

ignore - double post.

Read it from the actual book

No offense taken at all.



"Should Lukas ever be removed from play, both player rolls dice"

Don't want to copy more exact verbatim but those are the exact words in the sp. rule entry ;P


iPhone FTW...

you're missing my point, if I use eldrad and mindwar him to death then eldrad is gone........period

There is no way in hell that stasis grenade is going to help at range.

The trick is to just not get in combat with him.

I believe a fair quote would be:

"If the pikey, Turkish or his Girlfriend come out before us... shoot the b******s."

LucasLAD wrote:am I the only one who sees a potential rules lawyer abuse? I'm praying that this isn't quoted verbatim because "The Last Laugh" rule as written here doesn't stipulate whether the killer has to be in CC or not:

"Lukas the Trickster - WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A3 Ld8 Sv3+
Blood Claw upgrade. Plasma Pistol, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman, Wolf Claw.
Pelt of the Doppegangrel - Forces the enemy to re-roll successful to-hit rolls.
Rebellious - Causes his Squad to be capped at his Ld8 regardless of other upgrades.
The Last Laugh - On his death Lukas and the model that killed him are removed then both players roll a D6. If the SW player rolls equal to or higher than their opponent, all models within Base to Base contact with Lukas (friend or foe) are removed. "

Read the bold and pray to whatever god you want that this is just a misquote on the part of the OP

Wow, that's actually really stupid, I'll admit. But it doesn't affect vehicles, right?

LucasLAD wrote:you're missing my point, if I use eldrad and mindwar him to death then eldrad is gone........period

No.

Sorry to finish up the sp. rule entry - it'll clarify your concern.


"If SW player rolls equal or higher than opponent, all models in base contact are removed"

Not the attacker, unless he is base contact.



The paraphrased version is not exactly worded right.

The one I just quoted above - is exactly verbatim from the SW dex.

It reads model unfortunately. Omg the rulings at GTs on this are gonna be tricky.