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JohnHwangDD wrote:Exactly - it's been like this for about a decade, so why SM Codices are a shock to people is beyond imagination...

Agreed. How anyone thinks that comments like 'GW are trying to milk Space Marines' and (even worse) 'GW just want to make money' are still worth even typing is very hard to understand.

Incidentally, who did the model of the despairing BA Marine in the first post? I think it's wonderful It says more than a hundred whiney posts.

JD21290 wrote:How are they dull Fetterkey?
they have plenty of options structure wise, it just seems to be wargear that lets them down. (and only 1 unit of DC per army lol)

But it's always been 1 DC unit per army..

OH you mean it as joke aha ha... ha!

Tailgunner wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Exactly - it's been like this for about a decade, so why SM Codices are a shock to people is beyond imagination...

Incidentally, who did the model of the despairing BA Marine in the first post? I think it's wonderful It says more than a hundred whiney posts.

I have no idea I got it off of 4chan's /tg/ awhile back

The BA codex needs to have the same 3+ invul as regular space marines, how do you explain that BA shields are not as good as regular marines?

All they have to do is update points cost and make scout cheaper and a troop choice. Make a BA upgrade box and redo the 5 or so special characters. I also agree that dante and mephiston should get eternal warrior.

Or, they give the regular space marines 1+ to their WS, a five man tact squad cost 115 points in the BA codex and 90 in c:SM. Thats 5 points per model. Another option is giving them a chainsword in their wargear for 2 CCW.

Also it would be nice to give their assault squads alittle pizzaz, give them some different options like buying furios charge or something, maybe fleet?

Also add the new landspeeder, thunderfire, ironclad, and land raider reedemer and give termies the dedicated landraider option.

JD21290 wrote:How are they dull Fetterkey?
they have plenty of options structure wise, it just seems to be wargear that lets them down. (and only 1 unit of DC per army lol)

I dunno. I'm not really interested in the Blood Angels Codex in the same way that I'm interested in the Space Marines, Space Wolves, or even Dark Angels Codices.

But it's always been 1 DC unit per army..

OH you mean it as joke aha ha... ha!

I know, but they had options for weapons
they dont now lol.
allthough, making them a 0-2 choice (1 per chappy in the army) would be nice


Fetterkey, all up to you mate
everyone has thier own taste in armies.


anyways, 3:10am, im off

Eh. 1 DC is fine. Just make it a unit that doesn't take a FOC slot.

Well with the wolves done now it's about time BA got an update. Just wish they'd fix DA too, the codex is dire.

Vulkan wrote:GW has stopped shipping out Blood Angel stuff.

Where'd you get this? I can still order everything from them.

puma713 wrote:

Vulkan wrote:GW has stopped shipping out Blood Angel stuff.

Where'd you get this? I can still order everything from them.

STARSCREAM!

Actually I should had been more specific and stated that it's shops that arnt able to orders these anymore
and I got this information from Miniwargamming and /tg/

I really hope that they get something to kind of set them apart. As it is they only have the death company and Furiosos that make them any different from anyone else (and especially with the most recent marine dex they are LESS of a special chapter than Ultramarines) I hope that they bring back the black rage rule and give them some special close combat bonuses/ items (i.e. new lighting claws like space wolves) I know that people say that they are a close combat army, but they are so not. Maybe rending on the charge or something like that would work out.

I'm no fan of the current dex for BA, but I have to disagree. Assault Marines as Troops in either JP's or Fast Rhinos? That right there gives you the opportunity to field some forces that are pretty distinctive in their appearance and operation.

That does a lot to set them apart. Making htem some kind of FWOAR broke up army that's the pick up and win beat stick like the flavor of the month codexes seem to be these days is a different topic.

Hell, Id be happy just to get some more options, some parallel rules, and lowered points costs.

blood angels = assault
tyranids = assualt
???
PROFIT!

grizgrin wrote:I'm no fan of the current dex for BA, but I have to disagree. Assault Marines as Troops in either JP's or Fast Rhinos? That right there gives you the opportunity to field some forces that are pretty distinctive in their appearance and operation.

That does a lot to set them apart. Making htem some kind of FWOAR broke up army that's the pick up and win beat stick like the flavor of the month codexes seem to be these days is a different topic.

Hell, Id be happy just to get some more options, some parallel rules, and lowered points costs.

Assault Marines as troops, sure, the others can't do it...but...Assault Marines suck. They are way overpriced for a group of five marines that can move fast but other than that aren't set up for close combat. 2 attacks (3 on the charge) from 5 guys is not such a serious threat...

Let's not forget the Blood Angels have to pay for much more for their Assault Squads I believe even with including the DC they pay like another 30 points or some thing.

Now I love the DC because of the fact they are scary and probably have Khornate any thing crying but the fact is you have to build your entire army around them and only use full squads to get your points worth

T_T I liked the chaos of it all way back when

New BA dex?
Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please!

Gutteridge wrote:blood angels = assault
tyranids = assualt
???
PROFIT!

QFT

whitestagg wrote:

grizgrin wrote:Assault Marines as troops, sure, the others can't do it...but...Assault Marines suck. They are way overpriced for a group of five marines that can move fast but other than that aren't set up for close combat. 2 attacks (3 on the charge) from 5 guys is not such a serious threat...

I would beg to differ. I ran a Jumpwing for a while. Before the meta in my shop swung toward Rate of Fire as a cure for marines on foot, I hammered many opponents with nothing more than jump troops. Then the Rate of Fire builds came in and I got shot off the board. So no, it's not an optimal build but it CAN be a massive pain for your enemy. 5th edition, which finally let you DO a full jumpwing in conjunction with the current dex (admittedly released during 4th), killed the Jumpwing wiht the LOS rules. The ability to see into and then out of terrain did it. Yeah, if the terrain is right you can still pull it off, but it takes some luck these days.

But even so, people gak themselves when they see this red "horde" of marines doing wind sprints to get across the board at them! The intimidation factor, even when the army was getting trounced, made for very fun games. People would work them selves up into a froth!

Vulkan wrote:Let's not forget the Blood Angels have to pay for much more for their Assault Squads I believe even with including the DC they pay like another 30 points or some thing.

Now I love the DC because of the fact they are scary and probably have Khornate any thing crying but the fact is you have to build your entire army around them and only use full squads to get your points worth

T_T I liked the chaos of it all way back when

While Assault Squads are more expensive and have fewer options (tryin real hard not to just list a bunch of bitches here, folks), you don't have to build around the DC. The DC can serve as a flack magnet, a secret weapon, or a "human" shield to benefit the rest of your army; depending on what you think your opponent is going to do wiht them. They don't need maxing for this.

GW turned the store that i've been going to since 1996 into a gak infested rat hole with a manager that needs to be murdered, shot, stabbed whatever, it really does depress me that i cant go into the store anymore without getting seriously angry at the way this guy speaks to me and other customers that arent children.

Oh yeh they made me hate 40k so much with the crappy new dex's and 5th edition that I now exclusively player Warhammer Fantasy.

Yeh thanks GW.

Regardless of everything said here the SW codex has proved to us just how unique GW can make a marine codex now, so if/when BA roll around GW had better not pull a dark angels on them. Speaking of everyones favourite marines in dresses, I doubt they'll get an update any time soon, templars will slot in there first as the only marine chapter to refuse thier troops grenades as standard. Working on a marine dex a year, BA will be 2010, BT will be 2011, so DA will have to wait until at least 2012, maybe longer if GW decide to space power armour out a bit or include chaos marines in that list.

(UNLESS.... we get a nex codex angels of death)

I actually was in a GW a couple weeks ago in Houston, and got great treatment. I was treated as (gasp) an adult. I got a hardsell on SpHulk, but hey everyone's baby needs a new pair of shoes, eh?

Sorry yours thinks it a pre-k. That's not uncommon.

It's folk like you 99 that should run stores my GW had 2 fantastic managers some of our models were featured in White Dwarf and the GW website

Oh Commandant Krill where ever you may be let those who who defy you burst into flames

The only problem with BA AM is that the AM pay a smidgen hair too many points for their JPs. If AM were 130 for the first 5 (DC included) and 90 for the 2nd 5, they'd be fine. Then VAS would be 145 for the first 5 and 105 for the 2nd.

AM? Sorry it's been over a year since my last Warhammer game

Assault Marines.

Anticipating the next question, VAS = Veteran Assault Squad...

assume you can figure out DC in a BA context.

Sadistikk wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Marinehammer 40'k. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only space marines.

LOL QTF so true ....

sadly so

Don't forget the BA Psyker problem... Ld9? I'd happily give up unlimited range psychic hoodies for an Ld10 base. No jump pack option for an army that can otherwise be all JP equippped? A psychic power that's a "counts as jump pack"? No thanks.

Plus Mephiston's powers hardly are equatable to one of the most powerful psykers in the Adeptus Astartes. Sure he's a bear in assualt (although less so in v5), most of his powers are, at best, meh...

Just compare the C:SW or C:SM psychic powers to those in C:BA. Sad really.

But fix that, bring the wargear into equivalence, and give the BA a few of the "new style" marine toys/rules (like the Baby Baal Razorback, VAS assaulting on the DS, and Scouts to Troops, for instance), and I'd be pretty happy.

Oh, and can someone please get Dante a new Power Axe!

Vale,

JohnS

You know, i would'nt hate them for doing a Baal land raider (3 AC or 2 ac 1 hb)

I want a BA kit so I can buy lots of them and do up a company or 4.

Hurry up GW, I'm onto the 6th incarnation of my BAs and I don't want to do more until I get a chapter specific kit.

I think BA will have enough to be unique with this. Space Wolves have shown how unique a non-codex chapter can be and this is a very good thing. Unlike earlier codices for other chapter Space Wolves actually justified its own existence through its distinctiveness, something I hope Blood Angels can do as well. I'm not just talking Death Company, Troop Assault Marines, Furioso, and Baal Predators; these things are superficial differences. I think the Blood Angels downloadable codex lay the ground work for their codex well.

To be unique I really believe that their needs to be some over arching themes and threads that run through the army. How the Death Company squad is formed, could be that if done well, having more implication than model being plucked out of squads. Maybe a kind of inverse to the space wolves sagas... where its not the presence of a hero in the squad that alters it but the absence of those who are now Death Company. Their insanity could be contagious and by virtue of close proximity previous to a brother marine joining the Death Company, could have had a bit of it rub off; granting squads donating marines to the the death company a lesser and temporary blood lust. If death company didn't cause an effect like this, why else would the segregate them?

Other than that, it'd be cool if Baal Predators went from Twin linked ass-cannons to a Punisher.

mephiston is I: 6 with 4 base attacks, so wyen you charge you get 6 then the d3, so on average you will get 8 S:5 force weapon hits. And he can fly..