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SM pay 75 pts for a Sergeant and 4 WS3 BS3 Scouts as Troops.

BA pay 80 pts for a Sergeant an 4 WS4 BS4 Scouts as Elites. +1 pt/model for +1 WS and +1 BS isn't so bad.

John, in retrospect it doesent look all that bad, but its still the killer of them being an elite choice and having to pay for rifles :(

allthough, i see them becomming the same as vanilla scouts in a new dex.
Atleast with thier little boost they can be taken as an assault unit.
under 200 points for a 10 man unit with pistol + CC wep in a pod isnt too bad looking at it this way, but BA rely on eltes mainly for tank hunting

By this i mean VAS with melta spam lol, about the most effective anti-tank unit in the game, allthough, throw storms on them all and they survive for a good while.

JD21290 wrote:
I got no problem working with metal mate, and it by far wouldnt be a 1st time thing
but mephiston would be impossible to get into a charging pose with the current mini, i may have to break out the GS lol
I think him charging forward, plasma pointed infront of him and sword drawn back would look good, maybe have the cape flowing behind him aswell for a bit more realism and looks.

Really that's more of a miniature posing design issue than materials. He would be a fething pain in the tits to mod like that in plastic as well. But that's a kick ass idea, either way.

JD21290 wrote:
Griz, GW fethed themselve sover mate

This is many things, including "true", "unfortunate", and "obvious". However, it is neither "new", "unexpected", or "a depature from SOP". I'm not tryin to be a jack ass here, I really could not agree more with that statement you made.

JD21290 wrote:
...and mephiston gaining the ability to control them like a chappy does.
Being the lord of death and the oldest (slightly?) BA ever (still alive) i think he would have fought by thier side enough to know how to lead them better than a chappy.

Point of order. There is no mention that I am aware of of either an absolute age for Methiston, or of an age for him relative ot anything else. But I DO get the feelin he IS indeed one old dude. Seond point of order: Methiston's claim to fame is his control of the Red Thirst. Keeping yourself from descending into rage for eternity is one thing; leadin a pack of wild animal killing machines in battle, and keeping control over them, is another kettle of fish. I'd LOVE to see the rule, but I think if they continue to keep it out, they would still be keeping with the fluff.

Really that's more of a miniature posing design issue than materials. He would be a fething pain in the tits to mod like that in plastic as well. But that's a kick ass idea, either way.

Meph is far too much of a solid construction model to even think about converting as ive said
the amount of damage you would do just cutting parts away would ruin it and take weeks
i think the best way is start off with a set of DA running legs and the back part of the body from the commander box.
From there sculpt on the front section of the body (not a big or hard job to do)
The head is simple, the screaming khorne zerker head will look great with sculpted hair (note, the head has fangs allready )

The shoulder pads are once again simple jobs, 1st is just sculpting a skull onto the pad, or you can use the WoC marauder skull pad with some trimming and filling.
The BA icon pad can be ordered lol.

Other than that, its simply using basic marine arms with chaos hands since they have the glove sections on them.

Force weapon made from a relic blade from AoBR with a little cutting around the edges to shape it more.
Basic plasma pistol.

Maybe add a small amount of guitar string for added cable in places like on the origional model.

But yea, simple job
and yes, i have thought this all through and planned it heavily allready XD



Agreed on the statement comment, after this long GW just copy thier own books (turn of phrase, allthough the BA book is a tad C&P ish lol)



Note on meph:

1: Mephiston is over 1,500 years old, making him one of the oldest marines (not including the pri's) to ever live

2: He was origionally known as Calistarius before he gained control over the thirst, after doing so he gained the title Mephiston - Lord of death.
His unique ability that lets him not only keep control of the thirst, but also to use it to make him stronger while still being controlled is 1 of a kind.
Chappies teach and talk the death company into battle, comforting thier sorrows and visions to keep them in check.
Mephiston has managed to overcome this to the highest degree, meaning he would actually have not only more knowledge, but a much better ability to help others control it.
He is also noted as one of the most powerfull libbies in the SM force, along with tiggie
Meaning that his powers should be a reflection onto himself, showing his capabilities.


and yes, im a BA nut

JD21290 wrote:
Meph is far too much of a solid construction model to even think about converting as ive said ...and yes, i have thought this all through and planned it heavily allready XD

I don't disagree at all. He's a solid block with a plasma pistol and a sword sticking off. You might as well try and re-carve him out of a wooden block ass convert that thing. I'm just saying it's got nothing to do with his materials; just the anciet=>monolithic pose.

JD21290 wrote:
Note on meph:...yes, im a BA nut

Knew all that except that he is 1,500. Never saw that, but actually I could see me having poss. glossed over it.

Griz, true enough
Even if it was plastic it would be impossible, just too many details too close together to make cuts even with a jewlers saw.

got his age from a book a while back, ill dig through and find it
shows just how memorable that book was if i cant remember what one it was lol

Why is anybody crying about the cost of scouts? Who plays Blood Angels for scouts?

10 Vanilla Assault Marines = 190 pts

10 Blood Angel Assault Marines = 250 pts

Cry about that.

Mike, why take 10 assault marines for 250 when i can take 10 assault vets for 275?

I was using scouts as an example at kicked up prices.
and im not crying, im just pissed off

No one plays BA for scouts, but in some games they make life alot fething easier.
Against nidzilla lists sniper scouts put most dev squads to shame with ease.

also, 145 for 10 scouts fitted out for assault isnt bad, its a cheap option to get a more numerous force on the table, while still being effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: However, i do laugh at people who take Dante
since a stray las round kills him lol, hence why i take a basic libby and chappy, or chappy and meph instead.

Mike Leon wrote:Why is anybody crying about the cost of scouts? Who plays Blood Angels for scouts?

10 Vanilla Assault Marines = 190 pts

10 Blood Angel Assault Marines = 250 pts

Cry about that.

Sorry I forgot to mention that
But sadly any one else will respond with "Durr hurr but get them as troops" or claim it's the deaths company were paying 60 points for T_T I love DC but at this point I'm sick of them

Vulkan, if anything making them troop should drop thier price a bit since they then become the mainstay units for the army.

On the subject of DC: They are worth thier weight in gold and i would happily include them at 350 points for 10 with packs
When used right they can seriously break games open.
Ive managed to play a nidzilla list and kill half thier MC's with just DC and a chappy

True, they suffer from options, or atleast, lack of them, but still a great unit.

You'll get no argument from me that AM are overpriced, even as Troops.

John, while i wont argue about them being stupidly overpriced, i will comment that they are damn effective

However, i rather run MSU tac squads in razors as troop, then let the vets, DC and guards take the packs.

Lets face it.

250 points for 10 models that have a total of 31 attacks on the charge

275 points for 10 models that have 40 attacks on the charge and tons of options

No problems making a choice here.

allthough, if they dropped the AS to 200-220 points each and game them special wep options (melt, flam or plas) then i would think about basing an army around them.

but for now, you need 10 man AS or they die quickly, you need atleast 2 units for a slight punch, 3 for a real kick.
You have then spent 750 points on 3 units that have no real anti-tank to start with.

170 points for 5 vets with 2 meltas is great though for tanks

Troops arnt as over priced as you think!
If you take a tactical squad of ten it is 180 points, equal to the space marine codex, you also gain the points back if you take a ten man assault squad so really you get an advantage points wise. Do the math and investigate! All you have to do is take 10 man squads.


The basis behind the models being alot more expensive was because each squad gives you a 30 point death company unit. As deeling with the assault squad, you have to pay some points because they have the deepstrike ability scoring deep striking is bueno.

Also saying that you shouldn't buy a box because its metal is stupid, buy some green stuff and pin, its alot for rewarding when you do it. I don't want new characters for BA, but i just want them to redo the models, lamertes is horrific, and dante should be a way better looking model.

JD21290 wrote:...
Edit: However, i do laugh at people who take Dante
...

Only if you leave his ass hanging in the breeze without a squad around him. In THAT case, I agree. Stupid is as stupid does.

Edited because I evidently need help ascertaining the difference between "with" and "without". Prole that I am.

How about giving tactical squads the option to replace thier bolters with pistol and CCW, and also the option of buy Jump Packs?

They should also take off the 1-unit limit for DC.

Dante with Corbulo in a 10 man death company is sooo awesome. Just keep ur assault squads near. If you also have extra points make an honor guard with a chapter banner (+1 to everyones attack withing 12" Corbulo keeps dante pretty safe with the ignore 1 failed armor save per turn. So i laugh at any1 who says dante is a joke.

Blood Angels assault Marines are nothing special. They can only take plasma pistols and those cost 15 points apiece. Even when they are boosted by both Dante and Corbulo they are not that great in close combat. At best they are a shock troop. Tactical Marines are a much better choice in my opinion. They can carry a meltagun and are much better for holding objectives.

Blood Angels as they stand now have many unique choices to choose from:

Dante, Corbulo, Lemartes
Death Company
Honorguard (special squad characters tech adept, sanguinary priest)
Veteran assault squads
Furisio dreadnaught with the Death Company upgrade
Baal predator

Both their rhinos and Baal predators have overcharged engines. These are a lot of unique units that only Blood Angels have access to and the majority are great choices. All of these units were available in third edition. If they only had access to their special characters, Death Company and assault squads as troop choices then I would agree this army could have easily included in the vanilla SM codex. But seeing that they do indeed have such a plethora of unique units to choose from they deserve their own codex. I think the PDF codex was well written and they are a very unique army.

The vast majority of BA armies I have seen in person are always well painted and the players who have stuck with this army should be rewarded for their loyalty. I think most people posting in this thread do not have much if any firsthand experience with the army. While it is not an army with a big red EZ button bolted on they are still very competitive in the hands of the right players who know how to tactically take advantage of what they have to offer. Personally I favor armies that take a bit of thinking to play well.

As far as changes go I would like to see all of the following:

Dante with Eternal Warrior
Death Company with access to power fists and power weapons
Scouts as a troop choice again
Special character such as Dante allows troop choices to be taken as a troop choice
Wargear, drop pods and landraiders equivalent to what Space Marines have (GW really needs to unify wargear and special rules for landraiders)
Fix overcharged engines as they are not reliable in terms of what they have to offer
Mephiston should have an invulnerable save
Ability to field up to ten models per terminator squad

To me these are all just tweaks. Jervis did a good job with their PDF codex overall

I agree with the above poster, the army is good, but it take alot of practice and skill. Personally i'm about 50/50 against khorne armies and i have a wainning record with the rest. Along with Afrikan's post I'd like to see a furious charge universal rule throughout the codex and keep the points the same.

radiohazard wrote:Thats all we need, another Marine Dex.

Of course. In the Grim darkness of the future there are only marines. I wonder how the hell the Imperium can be losing in the fluff when there are marines popping out of every nook and cranney. Can't throw a squig without hitting the 3rd company of some frikken marine chapter.

Complaining about the number of SM codices out and being released is basically a +1 post.

The only marine codex I could possibly complain about are the Black Templar.. I might sound like a joke but does a second founding chapter really need they're own book and minis? Yes I guess they are so radically different from other chapters but did any one know that before that book was released?

JD21290 wrote:Mike, why take 10 assault marines for 250 when i can take 10 assault vets for 275?

I generally take 10 regular assault marines over ten vets. It isn't simply a case of 250 or 275. 275 is for 10 vets with no gear, and if you don't give them gear then why take them? Vets are also not scoring - and that is a big deal. I used to take vets, but then after I played a hundred or so games with them I started realizing that the regular squads perform just as well.

Even if you don't gear them you're spending 25 points to go from 31 attacks to 40 attacks. What can you kill with 40 attacks that you can't kill with 31? Not a whole lot, and you could take those 25 pts and get a powerfist to go with your 31 attacks - and be a scoring unit.

It's a matter of preference, but vets vs regulars comes out in the wash at best. The vets can take meltaguns for tank hunting, and that is one thing they have going for them, but I have plenty of melta death in my army already.

Also, if you like scouts killing nidzilla, you should see what a 10 man death company does to a carnifex sometime.

I like your attitude Mike

*choughs* Dark Eldar *choughs*

BA are supposed to be a regular codex chapter that has a "secret" that they try to deny/ignore/work around.

They should be codex marines with the red thirst rule.

I'm all for a new BA codex but I think the current codex has captured the BA feel well. I just really hope they don't take out the assault marines as troops or at least allow tactical squads to take jump packs. Codex BAs without jump packs would look horribly like codex SM.

If Blood Angels dont have jump packs then GW need some other way to keep the improved combat ability. Apart from an extra attack I cant think of much they could do that would make sense. I don't think WS5 or S5 marines would work with the fluff.

Also I'm sure I read that BA do have more assault squads than normal marines or if that isn't the case I am sure their attitude to CC could justify them making more.

Really all I can see that needs improving are the points costs for wargear to bring them in line with other SMs.

Liquidice281 wrote:Troops arnt as over priced as you think!
If you take a tactical squad of ten it is 190 points, 20 points more than the space marine codex and without the free options, you also gain the points back if you take a ten man assault squad so really you get an advantage points wise. Do the math and investigate! All you have to do is take 10 man squads.


The basis behind the models being alot more expensive was because each squad gives you a 30 point death company unit. As deeling with the assault squad, you have to pay some points because they have the deepstrike ability scoring deep striking is bueno.

Also saying that you shouldn't buy a box because its metal is stupid, buy some green stuff and pin, its alot for rewarding when you do it. I don't want new characters for BA, but i just want them to redo the models, lamertes is horrific, and dante should be a way better looking model.

Fixed

"u also gain the points back if you take a ten man assault squad so really you get an advantage points wise"
Explain?

JD21290 wrote:WOAH! Woah, woah, woah, hold on there
As a BA player i claim they are not the same as the usual marine scum!
Rather than sitting back hiding and using special characters to structure our armies we charge into anyone (including orks) and crush them through sheer force
Rather than being like those pansy ultrasmurfs and shooting everyone.

Yeah Blood Angels are the Ultramarines of combat woopty doo, don't care, want my new necron dex

Has anybody noticed this bit of silliness?

5 jump marines + 5 jump marines + 2 DC = 280 pts

10 jump marines + 2 DC = 280 pts

It is a myth that you "maximize the death company" by taking 5-man squads.

And that means you pay for another death company guy with the cost of the extra 5 men in a ten man squad, even though you don't get one. You literally pay 30 pts for nothing.

Even though I think Necrons could stand to come first, I'd be happy to have stuff like this fixed.

Yeah, but by taking two 5-man squads you can get 2 sergeants and, when you drop the jump packs, two rhinos.