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I'm going to throw in my support for Noise Marines here. The ability to pump out an unnecessary number of shots while standing still yet keep up the heat if mobility is required is great. A single squad with sonic blasters and a blastmaster is a good heart to a gunline, though they are expensive and should probably only form the core, not the whole of the line.

Copper8642 wrote:I'm going to throw in my support for Noise Marines here. The ability to pump out an unnecessary number of shots while standing still yet keep up the heat if mobility is required is great. A single squad with sonic blasters and a blastmaster is a good heart to a gunline, though they are expensive and should probably only form the core, not the whole of the line.

old codex they were pure gold. In the current codex they cost too much. If they came with the guns as standard i could understand.

I think they are costed fairly enough. 25ppm isn't all that bad really, the only problem with them is that they are too expensive to form an army out of, after upgrades you could get a 10 man chaos terminator squad for about 15 points less, with TL bolters and power weapons, they are less powerful at range but better in CC, and far more surviveable. A single squad is an excellent addition to your force though, as an objective holder they are unparalleled. able to pump out more firepower at 24" than normal marines can at 12, with better I, so they don't fear assault as much, fearless, so they never run from shooting, and the blastmaster, which is a force to be reckoned with.

They should come with the gun's really a Noise Marine? Name explains it all why must I pay 5pts for a sonic blaster? am I supposed to scream at the enemy?

Shadowbrand wrote:They should come with the gun's really a Noise Marine? Name explains it all why must I pay 5pts for a sonic blaster? am I supposed to scream at the enemy?

I think it's supposed to be there to give you the option of just bolter marines + blastmaster, or noise marines + noise champion for an assault force.

Noise Marines and Grey Knights are about the same points cost. They are so similar in function that I just don't see how Noise Marines are considered good and Grey Nights are considered bad.

Sure, both units are quite capable of killing things, but neither of them are particularly points-efficient.

Canonness Rory wrote:

Shadowbrand wrote:They should come with the gun's really a Noise Marine? Name explains it all why must I pay 5pts for a sonic blaster? am I supposed to scream at the enemy?

I think it's supposed to be there to give you the option of just bolter marines + blastmaster, or noise marines + noise champion for an assault force.

Yes but its like asking berserkers to pay for their axe. If they came with the sonic blaster and could swap it for a bolter.

Tri wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

Shadowbrand wrote:They should come with the gun's really a Noise Marine? Name explains it all why must I pay 5pts for a sonic blaster? am I supposed to scream at the enemy?

I think it's supposed to be there to give you the option of just bolter marines + blastmaster, or noise marines + noise champion for an assault force.

Yes but its like asking berserkers to pay for their axe. If they came with the sonic blaster and could swap it for a bolter.

Well, if noise marines were just 25ppm, and came with the blaster, would that be better?

Canonness Rory wrote:

Tri wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

Shadowbrand wrote:They should come with the gun's really a Noise Marine? Name explains it all why must I pay 5pts for a sonic blaster? am I supposed to scream at the enemy?

I think it's supposed to be there to give you the option of just bolter marines + blastmaster, or noise marines + noise champion for an assault force.

Yes but its like asking berserkers to pay for their axe. If they came with the sonic blaster and could swap it for a bolter.

Well, if noise marines were just 25ppm, and came with the blaster, would that be better?

Khorne Berzerkers get an extra attack, furiouse charge and fearless for 21pts; Thousand Sons get a 4+ inv, fearless, AP3 bolters and a forceweapon (ok and S&P) only 23pts; Plague Marines get +1T and Feel no Pain for 23pts. Are you telling me that I5 and fearless is worth 20pts? before you answer remeber for 20pts CSM can take the mark of slaanesh 19pts for 5men, 17pts for 10men and 16pts for 20men.

... It doesn't add up; the sonic blasters should be standard equipment.

the 20ppm noise marine sucks, but 25 ppm gives you the best shooting squad I can think of off hand, save for 250 points of guardsmen with 5 heavy weapons, and that is less mobile, more vulnerable to close combat and anti-horde weapons, and is much harder to put in cover.

Canonness Rory wrote:the 20ppm noise marine sucks, but 25 ppm gives you the best shooting squad I can think of off hand, save for 250 points of guardsmen with 5 heavy weapons, and that is less mobile, more vulnerable to close combat and anti-horde weapons, and is much harder to put in cover.

They're good but they cost too much. At 20pts they're missing a rule or wargear. Ether the base price should come down to 17-18pts or the gun should come with them. At 25pts they cost the same as sturnguard, who get all the fancy ammo and IMHO are much better.

But Sternguard are not Fearless and do not have I5, and all their other stats are the same. Sonic Blasters are generally better weapons than the special ammunition, given the ammount of fire you can put out at 24" regardless of movement. They are also Assault Weapons, meaning you don't have to give up your weapon's shooting to go into close combat.

The only benefit Sternguard have over Noise Marines is the special ammunition in certain circumstances. For instance, the Sternguard do slightly better when catching MEQs out of cover with Vengeance Rounds. The Hellfire rounds make them invaluable against MCs. The only problem is that you need very specific circumstances, and Sonic Blasters will perform equal or better against almost any target at any range.

The blastmaster definetely needs to be cheaper, and the noise champion needs to come standard. But I think 25ppm is fair, especially compared to sternguard, who aren't troops, don't score without pedro, and take up the best slot in the marine's codex.

Umm, i guess i may be missing something obvious here (especially given Rory's sig) but, why aren't SoB included in your list?

HQ
2 palatines with litanies of faith, just in case you need inv saves.

Troops
Does 20 models with ap1 boltguns, 3+ saves, nigh unbreakable morale and cheap melta not sound good enough for a gunline?

Fast attack
Some seraphim to tie up enemy assault units for a turn, then go on the rampage in your opponents back field. Failing that, flamers/meltas in a TL HF tank should scare people a bit.

Heavy support
How about we throw in some tanks with d6 s8 ap1 shots per turn to knock off your opponents termies/armour?

Forgive me if I've missed something obvious here, but that does sound a decent wall of firepower to me.

Sisters of battle are much better up close, with their focus on special weapons, lack of heavy weapons in troops, etc.

you COULD gunline with them, but it is a bad idea.

IG artillery. Not LRBT, but medusas and basilisks.... Start dropping pie plates like it's going out of style while screaming hysterically "WHO LIKES PIE?!" in between maniacal giggles....

Or that's just me.