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It's a simple set of logical steps:


A). Raise the prices. Move to B.
B). Have you raised prices? If not, go to A.

Easy.

Simple set your own inflation rate yearly and put everything up in price

kinghammer wrote:At the end of the day GW needs not to explain or justify their prices. You are either going to buy or not.

Does Chevy explain the price of their cars?
Does Dell explain the price of their computers?
Does Apple explain way so songs are now $1.29 and others are $.99?

I want to know why hobbyist have to feel they need justification on: prices, biz plans, Games Days, and so on. Either buy the product and play or don't.

By the way does GW get credit when they drop prices or have good deals like:

Chaos Knights
Chaos Marauders
Cold One Knights
DE Corsairs
SM Devastators
The New Clan Rats
and so on

Cheers

Do you happen to be a redshirt? Or are you just a huge GW fanboy? You will not get many fans here with an attitude like this.

I want justification because its my hard earned money they are expecting me to spend on their products.

As for the good deals didnt the Chaos Knights recently go up in price? And yes the Clannrats are a good price (although they seem smaller than the older ones). I cant comment on the other items as I dont collect them.

Mick

Hi all,
As others have said minature companies that do not have thier own rule set, simply price on material and production costs+ profit.
Eg Perry Minatures (28mm ) appx £1 per cavalry figure, and appx £0.5 per infantry.

GW bought expencive plastic manufacturing equipment, to 'eventualy have all plastic armies, to lower the start up costs to new players..'

But the corperate managment reviewed this to put plastic prices the same as metal prices to increase profit short term.

GW charge alot because not many people can afford the higher prices they charge!

It escapes them that lower prices =higher turnover= economies of scale = more profit AND more customers!

GW simply put prices as high as they think they can get away with.

I'm lucky enough to have 3 LFGS in the area that give between 20-25% off GWS prices...plus alot of them have a used section.

Lanrak wrote:Hi all,
As others have said minature companies that do not have thier own rule set, simply price on material and production costs+ profit.
Eg Perry Minatures (28mm ) appx £1 per cavalry figure, and appx £0.5 per infantry.

GW bought expencive plastic manufacturing equipment, to 'eventualy have all plastic armies, to lower the start up costs to new players..'

But the corperate managment reviewed this to put plastic prices the same as metal prices to increase profit short term.

GW charge alot because not many people can afford the higher prices they charge!

It escapes them that lower prices =higher turnover= economies of scale = more profit AND more customers!

GW simply put prices as high as they think they can get away with.

Way, way off again matey.

Plastic Regiments in Fantasy are roughly 50% cheaper than their metal incarnations. This is a price cut (cue someone explaining how it's not because plastic isn't metal and they can't possibly be wrong about anything ever so shut up Grotsnik etc).

GW charge a lot due to their high overheads. Whats PPs excuse?

GW simply put their prices as high as they think they can get away with. Yes, and no. Like any company that wishes to see it's next financial year GW want to maximise profits. Why is this only a crime when it comes to GW?

Cutting prices needs a massive lift in sales to increase profit. Any price cut tends to be coming out of your profit margin. Sure, you will sell more units, but there is no guarantee you'll take more money. Example.

I currently sell boxes for £5. These cost me £2, leaving me £3 profit per unit. Sales are sluggish. To follow your example, I cut the price by say, 20%. This cuts my profit by 33%.

Most of my customers spend £20 per visit, or 4 boxes. They now continue to spend the same amount, thus picking up 5 boxes.

Before the price cut, I'd be making £12 profit. After the price cut, I'd be making £10 profit....

This is because my overheads remain static. In order to make more profit, I'd be needing to increase the amount of money people spend, rather than the amount I sell.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Way, way off again matey.

Plastic Regiments in Fantasy are roughly 50% cheaper than their metal incarnations. This is a price cut (cue someone explaining how it's not because plastic isn't metal and they can't possibly be wrong about anything ever so shut up Grotsnik etc).

GW charge a lot due to their high overheads. Whats PPs excuse?

GW simply put their prices as high as they think they can get away with. Yes, and no. Like any company that wishes to see it's next financial year GW want to maximise profits. Why is this only a crime when it comes to GW?

Cutting prices needs a massive lift in sales to increase profit. Any price cut tends to be coming out of your profit margin. Sure, you will sell more units, but there is no guarantee you'll take more money. Example.

I currently sell boxes for £5. These cost me £2, leaving me £3 profit per unit. Sales are sluggish. To follow your example, I cut the price by say, 20%. This cuts my profit by 33%.

Most of my customers spend £20 per visit, or 4 boxes. They now continue to spend the same amount, thus picking up 5 boxes.

Before the price cut, I'd be making £12 profit. After the price cut, I'd be making £10 profit....

This is because my overheads remain static. In order to make more profit, I'd be needing to increase the amount of money people spend, rather than the amount I sell.

This is what our benevolent overlord had to say on the statement within the 09 GW financial report that not only had GW hiked the price of the metals but that having gotten away with it, they were now giving serious credence to bringing the plastic models to that same elevation.

yakface wrote:
I too found the statement about raising plastic prices to charge 'what they're worth' (meaning 'what people will pay for them' not 'a fair price based on what they cost to make') both disheartening and unsurprising.

Also unsurprising but disheartening was the admittance that they need to keep the price of metal figures high just in case the price of tin spikes again. The truth is, tin probably will rise rapidly once the world's economy recovers, but the fact that the price of metal figures is being kept high for this eventuality is, well, just disheartening, *especially* if they're then using this exorbitant price point to match their plastics back to.

I mean, right now their metal mini prices are pretty much insane, but you can always say to yourself "Well I know the price of tin has been high and plus I can get most of this army in plastic". But if all of GW's mini prices are based around the same level of the current metal models, well, that will just be a crazy level of insanity IMHO.

And I concur with every bloody word of it. I admire your loyalty to your employer Doc, but there are far smaller companies producing plastics for far less, if your masters were to lower their prices I'd buy a multitude of armies and most here would as well, I don't put the full amount of money with the company that I could because I cannot equate the product to the price. I cannot justify that much money for so few minis.

What stops me from paying the incredibly high prices is the terrible rules support.
If I could believe that my army was going to be updated regularly, that the company was thinking along the same wavelength of me regarding rules, and that they valued my custom at all, I'd happily have started a Chaos Daemons army by now, and would be expanding my other 40K armies. Since they obviously don't care about me (tournament gamer) don't agree with my basic ideas about the rules (tight rules help everyone and hurt no one) and don't support rules well at all (no Deffrolla FAQ (one example), poor support for Dark Eldar, Necrons- will CD be next? Will they even exist later on?) I don't want to waste my money.

It's nothing to do with my employment status I'm afraid. You can either pay the price, buy at a discount, or go without, as with every single other potential purchase you will ever make.

Yes, other companies do offer cheaper plastics. But then, they don't have anywhere near the running costs of GW. From takings of £113,000,000, they made £5,500,000 profit. The myth that they somehow make huge profits is so ridiculous it's not funny.

GW is a totally different beast to any other Wargames Company out there. Larger, better equipped etc, so to compare pricing strategies is largely pointless. As far as I know, the Company Formerly Known As Rackham were the only other PLC in the industry (anyone know what is happening with Rackham? I never seem to keep up).

And how do they not care about you Da Boss? Or are the Tournaments they run illusions?

The have actually stated that they see tournament gamers as a tiny and insignificant proportion of the gaming population and that they don't write rules with them in mind.
Also, tournaments run by GW in the Republic of Ireland? Which ones would these be? AFAIK the GT is being run by someone not associated with GW, and the Fantasy GT is similar. (Edit: Not 100% on the Fantasy GT, but someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong)

Nearly ten years with an incomplete ork range and and no updates also don't seem much like good support to me. It'd be worse if I'd the misfortune to think DE were cool.
Do you want to answer the point about terrible FAQ and errata support while you're at it? No?

Mick A wrote:

kinghammer wrote:At the end of the day GW needs not to explain or justify their prices. You are either going to buy or not.

Does Chevy explain the price of their cars?
Does Dell explain the price of their computers?
Does Apple explain way so songs are now $1.29 and others are $.99?

I want to know why hobbyist have to feel they need justification on: prices, biz plans, Games Days, and so on. Either buy the product and play or don't.

By the way does GW get credit when they drop prices or have good deals like:

Chaos Knights
Chaos Marauders
Cold One Knights
DE Corsairs
SM Devastators
The New Clan Rats
and so on

Cheers

Do you happen to be a redshirt? Or are you just a huge GW fanboy? You will not get many fans here with an attitude like this.

I want justification because its my hard earned money they are expecting me to spend on their products.

As for the good deals didnt the Chaos Knights recently go up in price? And yes the Clannrats are a good price (although they seem smaller than the older ones). I cant comment on the other items as I dont collect them.

Mick

No Im not a redshirt and I didn't know it was a contest to win fans.

As far as the Chaos Knights go they have gone up a couple of bucks, but that is still less than $50 for 5. As far as your "hard earned money", you are a big boy and can make the choice of what you want to spend your money on. Unless you need other people to tell you how to spend your money. Maybe you buy a little of the army at a time.

Being a "Fanboy", sure I like their products(GW has the best out there) unlike most I have the income to not worry about their prices.

Cheers

Sorry guys. I've tried wishing him out of existence, but I think we're stuck with him.

kinghammer wrote: unlike most I have the income to not worry about their prices.

Cheers

Ah, you attended the Jevis Johnson Finishing School for Girls. What a clever thing to say.

Welcome to my gak list.

unlike most I have the income to not worry about their prices.

Wow...fething good for you then I guess.

As far as your "hard earned money"

...why the quotation marks? Are you implying that he doesn't work hard?

kinghammer wrote:unlike most I have the income to not worry about their prices. Cheers

Would you buy my $1 coins for $100 each? I mean if you have the income to not worry about the price?

I dont think income is issue here , its whats "worth" it.

Would you buy LunaHound? She's housebroken!

Move to Autraila where you pay 30% retail more than the US and UK... then you will know GW pricing pain (if you don't buy from a US or UK online retailer that is)

Chaos knights were priced insanely low compared to the rest of the range and they sold bucket loads of them. Every WOC army I play against has 2 units of them....

kinghammer wrote:
As far as your "hard earned money",

Being a "Fanboy", sure I like their products(GW has the best out there) unlike most I have the income to not worry about their prices.

Cheers

Yes my money is hard earned (I work with adults with challenging and aggressive behaviour) and dont like you implying its not mate...

Good for you not having to worry about the cost of things, I wish we could all be in that boat but unfortunately we cant.

Mick

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

kinghammer wrote: unlike most I have the income to not worry about their prices.

Cheers

Ah, you attended the Jevis Johnson Finishing School for Girls. What a clever thing to say.

Welcome to my gak list.

People like that are quite literally why all of us can't have nice things, and I definitely agree with your sentiments MGS.

I dont buy as much any more due to the prices (and ive got a massive unpainted pile of plastic now), but I find it hard to criticise GW for raising prices. They are a profit making organisation with shareholders, and if I owned shares, i would be expecting returns.

GW has a product with a lot of brand loyalty, and a huge following. It can and does charge a premium as people are willing to pay it - If they werent willing to pay, they would reduce the prices until the market met equilibrium.

Its like designer handbags or shoes - they are made at the same sweatshops as the knockoffs, but people are willing to pay thousands of dollars for one, as its got a 'label' on it.

darkkt wrote:I dont buy as much any more due to the prices (and ive got a massive unpainted pile of plastic now), but I find it hard to criticise GW for raising prices. They are a profit making organisation with shareholders, and if I owned shares, i would be expecting returns.

GW has a product with a lot of brand loyalty, and a huge following. It can and does charge a premium as people are willing to pay it - If they werent willing to pay, they would reduce the prices until the market met equilibrium.

Its like designer handbags or shoes - they are made at the same sweatshops as the knockoffs, but people are willing to pay thousands of dollars for one, as its got a 'label' on it.

They haven't given anything (dividends) back to the shareholders for a few years now..But you're right, companies are around to make profit and as GW is in a niche market, they have to sacrifice lower costs because of lower volume. If, somehow, GWs games became huge and as many people played as watch "reality" TV, I would expect lower prices.

My budget remains the same, and my spending remains about the same. GW can cut
prices all they want, but I won't buy more than I already am. I'd just use the money saved
on something else.

Whereas I could afford to spend considerably more per month on miniatures but the current cost vs my perception of the miniatures value is prohibiting me making many purchases.

On the plus side I have, through searching around, discovered some amazing miniatures from other companies.

Explanation of GW's pricing structure:

People pay the prices they charge. They have no reason to change their pricing structure.


If you don't like the costs, organize others to speak with their wallets, stop purchasing anything, and make it clear to GW why they're doing so. Otherwise, it's not really worth discussing. It is what it is, either pay the prices or stop buying anything. That's all you can do.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Whereas I could afford to spend considerably more per month on miniatures but the current cost vs my perception of the miniatures value is prohibiting me making many purchases.

On the plus side I have, through searching around, discovered some amazing miniatures from other companies.

Yeah, I almost wish I had gone IG instead of Tau; there are a great deal of fantastic looking miniatures out there that would look nice in an IG army.

Shaman wrote:You silly fools theres no logic, all problems at GW are solved with a D6.

Which army to release after hurr marines? roll a d6

Price of models? roll d6 X 10 + day of month

Now you know

I have an insider that emailed me their chart for doing just that:

We just released more Space Marines! Hurr! What's next?

1) Black Templars! Hurr!
2) Blud Angles! Hurr!
3) Dark Angl... Marines in Dresses Hurr!
4) MOAR MARIENS HURRR!
5) something else that Jervis won't care if we botch it.
6) something else that Jervis won't care if we botch it.

if it sells alot, it costs more... if its metal double the usual price

HI all.
If I may reply to MDG.

MDG 'Yes, other companies do offer cheaper plastics. But then, they don't have anywhere near the running costs of GW. From takings of £113,000,000, they made £5,500,000 profit. The myth that they somehow make huge profits is so ridiculous it's not funny.'

The reason GW PLC makes such pitiful profits is because they are using inapropriate buisness model.
Increasing RRP when your customer base is shrinking is madness.(Actual turn over has dropped by 30% since 2004)
The fact a multimillion pound multinational company has NO defined buisness directives, is appauling!

Corperate managment & shareholders see GW as 'selling toy sodiers to kiddies'.
The studio and stores staff see the 'GW Hobby' 'where '..the games are just the icing on the cake..'
The customers and some store staff belive GWPLC care about gamers and game play,GW PLC go to great lenghts not to disalusion them untill they have got as much money as possible off them!


MDG 'GW is a totally different beast to any other Wargames Company out there. Larger, better equipped etc, so to compare pricing strategies is largely pointless. As far as I know, the Company Formerly Known As Rackham were the only other PLC in the industry (anyone know what is happening with Rackham? I never seem to keep up). '

GW PLC is different to ALL other 'Wargames Companies' becuase its a 'MINATURES COMPANY',unless you dont belive your company chairman?
Comparing GW pricing strategy to other SANE buisnesses, is NOT pointless!

There are 2 options for long term growth at GW , (rather than short term profits.)

1/Simply sell minatures online at a much reduced price to undercut the opposition.
Without the stores and hobby related support overheads, GW could make more profit from selling at 25% of the current prices.
Plasctic manufacture is set up to maximise the economies of scale.Current GW pricing strategy is in line with the metal moulding process! Why bother spending millions on new machenery if you are NOT going to maximise its potential?

2/ Use quality game play to drive sales , attract 'gamers of all ages', not just the 'easiest to please'.
As retaining customers has been proven to cost 80% less on average than trying to gain new customers.Attacting those most likely to be long term customers is better for long term growth than 'optimising return off the vunerable demographic' irrespective of ther suitability.

MDG you appear to be a good hobiest, and a decent bloke.But you seem to have 'GW rose coloured glasses 'tm on.
Yes you work for the company,but you dont have to try to defend thier poor buisness descisions.
(I blame the corperate suits for messing up GW ).

TTFN
Lanrak.

olympia wrote:The operations of the corporate entity known as Games Workshop are inscrutable. Perhaps this graph will help you understand the pricing structure.

Yup. I understand it perfectly now! Thanks!

Secret leaked memo RE: GW Pricing Structure

1. Entice consumer into picking up strategically placed shiney plastic miniature on the ground
2. Purge area of an friction-inhibiting materials
3. ???
4. Profit!

Actually, I don't know how GW or any other game industry makes a profit. Such a small, finicky market with a pretty significant barrier to play.

I'm also not sure how they can manage to justify charging what they do for molded plastic.

I do know almost every shop in SW Michigan has stopped carrying GW merchandise (or closed). The few places that remain have an anemic selection at best.

I can't help but think they need to push out some more inexensively priced product to entice more folks into the hobby. AoBR is a pretty good start, although $75 retail is hardly an impulse purchase. Maybe give out free promo-mini's for everybody who bought one of the warhammer video games or something. Pimp it hard at college campuses and gaming clubs - I know Wizards of the Coast has some programs they put in place to provide tournament support for casual gaming clubs (Not just stores).

Hmm...I bet $20-$25 box sets, $30 vehicles, and try to milk the hell out of $8-$10 blister packs w/ special minis/characters and bitz packs for customization would be about right...(This is just me projecting what I wish crap cost).