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I wouldn't pay.

I have bought most (like 90%) of my substancial Guard army at my FLGS. It is also the place where i learned to play and meet my gaming budies. Most my purchases were done just before the counter closes for the night while the manager is waiting for us to finish the game. I have already paid for my models, paints etc. If he tried to charge for the table (and the realm of war battleboard) i would have instead organised gaming nights at my table at home. Besides it's nice to have onlookers who are interested in the game. We usually go out of our way to explain things to them or to the new guy who plays w/ proxies from his fantasy army. I doubt if i would be so magnanimus so as to schedule a game and pay for the table just to show the game to someone....

I had a bad experience a month or two back with this. LGS (they lost the F) I had occasionally played at every so often moved to pay-for-play.

They had no signs up. No counter staff mentioned the fee when we set up. Tons of people playing various things just like any other day.
Me and a new player played for about an hour and a half. We are putting our stuff up and then one of 3 clerks walks up.

"Do you have your gaming space tickets?" I look at the guy figuring he's joking. He's always got a clever smart alecky thing to say when you walk past the counter.
"Ticket?"
"Yeah. It costs two dollars to play OR you can buy x amount of stuff ($20 if IIRC) and play for free that day."
"When did that change? I didn't see any signs up."
"It's been like that for a couple of months now. I've seen you in here since we started charging."

Me and the other guy agree that we'll pay for our ticket as the clerk starts badgering a group of teens who are playing CCGs at the nearby tables. He's let everybody get back there and set up for a good while before he starts mentioning anything. Not a single sign in the place. Two bucks per person is the rate but nothing to let you know except a clerk acting like a train conductor on a train that you'd been riding for free for years on and off.

They got my two bucks. They have a nice place to play and it would be worth it IF I knew about it. That ambush stuff lost my business. I had already picked out a vehicle set from Flames of War ($50) before we played that I was going to pick up after gaming that day. I'll play GW only games at GW for free before I support that kind of penny ante practice.

An hourly fee? Yeah that be the last place I'd want to play at. A small nominal fee maybe (under $4-$5) I could deal with for the day perhaps, but an hourly rate would see me never enter the store.

Make it Free as everyone else stated, But add a small snack bar up there. You will make a killing!!


If you have a trustworthy friend / customer pay him minimum wage to man the snack bar, answer rules questions, and play a game with anyone that shows up without a gaming partner.

mikhaila wrote:
QFT. The store owner/employees are now in an adversarial role towards their customers, trying to collect money from them for something most of them consider should be free.

Paying for use of space and materials should never be assumed free, especially in a buisness/service industry environment.

Many LGS allow free use of game space becase they are afraid not to or are bullied into it, not because it "should" be free. Big difference.

I think all resturants should give me free refills because my local favorite does...

I think the local paintball range should let me use their fields for free because after all I support them by buying my gear form them...

I think the mall parking garage should be free, afetr all I buy my stuff there...

etc., etc.

What we want as consumers and what we deserve or have a right to demand are too different things. Unfortunatly the average LGS is so held hostage by it's customers that it is often forced to go along with all manner of things that make no buisness sense whatsoever in a attempt to appease whatever narrow revenue stream it has...

CT GAMER wrote:

mikhaila wrote:
QFT. The store owner/employees are now in an adversarial role towards their customers, trying to collect money from them for something most of them consider should be free.

Paying for use of space and materials should never be assumed free, especially in a buisness/service industry environment.

Many LGS allow free use of game space becase they are afraid no to or are bullied into it, not because it "should" be free. Big difference.

I think all resturants should give me free refills because my local favorite does...

I think the local paintball range should let me use their fields for free because after all I support them by buying my gear form them...

etc., etc.

What we want as consumers and what we deserve or have a right to demand are too different things. Unfortunatly the average LGS is so held hostage by it's customers that it is often forced to go along with all manner of things that make no buisness sense whatsoever in a attempt to appease the mob...

Fair enough. I'll pay for play but there needs to be signs so that folks know it's a cost to use the facilities (see my notes above). Also if the place goes to that model of making money, I won't feel at all bad about buying on-line discount for the same products they sell at full retail plus tax.

privateer4hire wrote: Also if the place goes to that model of making money, I won't feel at all bad about buying on-line discount for the same products they sell at full retail plus tax.

This is the standard cop-out passive aggressive stance that most spoiled gamers take. Congrats...

You should do this though. Stick it to the man and all that...

CT GAMER wrote:
...All of these things have happened and happen regularly in stores that are free to play in as well, and I have seen a fair number of stores in my 28 years of wargaming, inclusing the one I owned and ran...

True. But when something like that happens in a 'free' store, the management has a lot of leeway in dealing with it. "I provide a free gaming space as a benefit to my customers. Your behavior, sir, is damaging the collegial atmosphere. Please leave my store."
When someone pays to play, the management has a more difficult time reigning in bad behavior. For most people, money replaces shame. "Your behavior, sir, is unaccept-" "I PAID to game here! You can't do anything until my time is up!"

I'm not going to argue about the unrealistic expectations of consumers, or what should be 'free' and what we should have no problem paying a fee for. The simple fact of the matter is, a well-managed & friendly store will develop a loyal customer base. Providing free gaming space is one way to offer the customer more than the competition. Charging for gaming space may eventually erode customer loyalty, especially if some stores practice ambush tactics like those mentioned in the post above. I know that if I were treated that way, I would never patronize that store again, even if they went back to having free gaming.

Actually...there's plenty they can do.

1)Post a list of acceptable behaviors, alongside of requiring parents AND minors AND adults to sign a waiver agreeing to abide by that list of behaviors.
2) Right to refuse service or revoke service would be in effect, in that case. If I could get tossed out of a laser tag place when I was 14 for swearing(after having paid for a whole day and only getting to play only an hour)--I'm pretty sure a hobby shop would be well within their rights to toss someone out for being a douchemonkey.

Yep. And then you go from managing a store and making sales, to policing behavior and enforcing rules. (Did you sign the waiver? Is it on file? Why can't I find it?) So how much of a headache do you want?

Not saying that you won't have headaches with free gaming space too, just that on the one hand you will probably develop a community of regular customers who will support your decisions, while on the other hand you have a bunch of renters who are more concerned about getting what they paid for.

And the right to refuse service is always in effect, even if the gaming is free.

CT GAMER wrote:

privateer4hire wrote: Also if the place goes to that model of making money, I won't feel at all bad about buying on-line discount for the same products they sell at full retail plus tax.

This is the standard cop-out passive aggressive stance that most spoiled gamers take. Congrats...

You should do this though. Stick it to the man and all that...

One FGS has it about right to appeal to gamers in a world where on-line is realistically very difficult to compete with. They offer free gaming space, have sales, offer discounts and actively encourage their community gaming. Their website is professionally done and maintained, realizing it's a full time business they're running. It's about an hour drive but I go out of my way to give them my business in addition to the store that's 6 miles from my house.

Congrats to you, too. Many business experts owning and/or operating LGSs are spoiled gamers. Your defense of brick and mortar 1970s tactics is also a standard cop-out of many owner/operators.

Charging just creates a negative attitude in the customers. Sell canned drinks, chocolate bars, crisps (chips to you americans) and you'll turn a good profit on the space.

Don't bother with vending machines - you'll never turn a profit with them unless you have huge footfall, more than a gaming area will ever have. Even workplace vending machines with 40-odd employees barely pay for the rental of the machine. Just get down the cash-and-carry for some crates of coke and boxes of crisps and mars bars.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I've passed this thread on to him and told him to have a look at it, theres plenty of arguments for and against, so its nice to have something to weigh up the options.

To be honest, I was somewhat worried that there would be a 'nationality divide' showing up where for instance the whole issue of tipping would come up... I know its been argued to death elsewhere on the internet, but theres always the view that the english are bad tippers because its just not custom and practice over here... same with free fill ups for drinks, there arent many places I know of in the UK that offer that, in fact the drinks are where most eateries make their money.

I was trying to figure out if there was something of the same with regards to the room rental issue as a uk/america divide (sorry for all other nationalities out there that I've not included in that statement) where for instance the brits, who are used to seeing prices creep gradually upwards as things such as additonal warranties and services were added to the advertised cost would stomach the cost a bit more than the americans, who were used to paying more for service type situations (i.e. tipping waiters) but physical things, such as for instance fillups and 'added extras' would always presume it was free.

(of course, the analogy of the brits and extended warranties is pretty much irrelevant as well, as im sure that happens in america too, and you're more often than not a mug if you pay for it... but lets not get too far off topic)

Well, you probably have seen this, but something I've read a fair amount on is the gaming model. Many American gamers (with access to LGS) accept in-store play as a kind of norm. Brits seem to be more club-oriented, holding games at each other's houses or meeting halls that folks band together and pay for----again, based solely on what I've read and seen.

The sale of non-prep foods that don't require food handlers licenses/certs (like cooking things would require in US) is something I've seen commonly done. Easier and cheaper to buy a box of candy bars and some bulk cartons of canned soda that you sell individually at the counter than the expensive vending machine.

CT GAMER wrote:

mikhaila wrote:
QFT. The store owner/employees are now in an adversarial role towards their customers, trying to collect money from them for something most of them consider should be free.

Paying for use of space and materials should never be assumed free, especially in a buisness/service industry environment.

Many LGS allow free use of game space becase they are afraid not to or are bullied into it, not because it "should" be free. Big difference.

I think all resturants should give me free refills because my local favorite does...

I think the local paintball range should let me use their fields for free because after all I support them by buying my gear form them...

I think the mall parking garage should be free, afetr all I buy my stuff there...

etc., etc.

What we want as consumers and what we deserve or have a right to demand are too different things. Unfortunatly the average LGS is so held hostage by it's customers that it is often forced to go along with all manner of things that make no buisness sense whatsoever in a attempt to appease whatever narrow revenue stream it has...

Difference is.... I can, as many folks, just as easily play at home and shop in my fuzzy slippers on the net for models.

What advantage does a store have that shopping online doesnt? What would actually bring me into YOUR store, to pay full pop(or perhaps even witha 10% discount)?

Playing space. Its really the ONLY advantage a store has. If you take that away from the LGS, there is no reason to ever enter a gaming store. I can get advice on biulding and playing online. I can get painting advice....online. Tutorials, online. I can even meet and set up playing online(its how I got together with my RPG group). I can travel places to tournments.

Why should I go to your store, CT GAMER? What possible reason is there to draw me in, if your going to charge me for playing time? I already belong to a wargaming group who doesnt play at a store, as our dues cover rental of space monthly thats strickly playing- wall to wall tables, painting station, etc.....

Attitudes like yours, and other crappy games LGS have played lead to it.


So tell me CT GAMER, how will you get people in? Whats the advantage to charging to play? Whats your advantage over just shopping online?

CT GAMER wrote:

mikhaila wrote:
QFT. The store owner/employees are now in an adversarial role towards their customers, trying to collect money from them for something most of them consider should be free.

Paying for use of space and materials should never be assumed free, especially in a buisness/service industry environment.

Many LGS allow free use of game space becase they are afraid not to or are bullied into it, not because it "should" be free. Big difference.

I think all resturants should give me free refills because my local favorite does...

I think the local paintball range should let me use their fields for free because after all I support them by buying my gear form them...

I think the mall parking garage should be free, afetr all I buy my stuff there...

etc., etc.

What we want as consumers and what we deserve or have a right to demand are too different things. Unfortunatly the average LGS is so held hostage by it's customers that it is often forced to go along with all manner of things that make no buisness sense whatsoever in a attempt to appease whatever narrow revenue stream it has...

I think you are missing the fundamental point I try to make:

"If you are a store, and trying to make a profit, then you will make more money, buy having a great gaming store, and providing the service to your customers of free gaming space."

It's that simple. A store will make more money doing this simple stategy. Think of it as a game. Would you do things in a game to annoy your opponent, and lose?

The game that I play is: Have such a great store that I can suck every last quarter out of your pocket, drain your credit card, piss off your wife, and then have you thank me.

The bullied part makes me laugh. Bullied into doing the correct thing for their business? Bullied into not making decisions that would hurt their business? HA. Bully me some more, please.

mikhaila wrote:

I think you are missing the fundamental point I try to make:

"If you are a store, and trying to make a profit, then you will make more money, buy having a great gaming store, and providing the service to your customers of free gaming space."

It's that simple. A store will make more money doing this simple stategy. Think of it as a game. Would you do things in a game to annoy your opponent, and lose?

The game that I play is: Have such a great store that I can suck every last quarter out of your pocket, drain your credit card, piss off your wife, and then have you thank me.

The bullied part makes me laugh. Bullied into doing the correct thing for their business? Bullied into not making decisions that would hurt their business? HA. Bully me some more, please.

Actually no, I completely understand your point. I really didnt mean to quote you in CT Gamers's nonsese. I understand your point completely. I'd go ever further to say if YOUR store were the one locally, I'd probably not be so hostile to LGS in general. But alas, I have had enough of Game store's nosense, and dont set foot in any anymore.

What I'm trying to do is get CTGamer to tell me what and why I would ever enter HIS type of store. Whats the advantage to going somewhere that charges full price for models AND charges for game space. WHy would I go there? He pisses and moans about "spoiled" gamers/customers, but he really represents the "spoiled" mentality of many game stores I've run into.

If you want me to support your store, ultimately you have to support me , so to speak. When the game store locally was run by, call'em old man Fred, I was definately a supporter, helped out when his staff didnt know stuff or even where stuff was and other items. And he was always willing to cut the tax or stuff when I was dropping $300 on stuff(thats $300 in GW stuff back in '98, when you got more for your money).

But alas, he broke up with his partner or sold out and the place isnt worth crossing the street to piss on if it was on fire now.

Carmachu, no worries, understood what you were saying. That was all aimed at CT Gamer, not you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I totally agree with your point of 'why go to CT gamers store?'. The simple act of making your regulars pay for space, turns them off so much they aren't your regulars anymore.

mikhaila wrote:Carmachu, no worries, understood what you were saying. That was all aimed at CT Gamer, not you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I totally agree with your point of 'why go to CT gamers store?'. The simple act of making your regulars pay for space, turns them off so much they aren't your regulars anymore.

Ah I see. Your doing the same thing I did.

I'm still waiting for CT's logic on why and what advantage he has for making a customer pay for playing space/privilages. At the old Neutral Ground in NYC, space was at an extreme premiuim. So paying a small fee to play all day, as there was no chance to play in one's apartment. But thats an extreme example.

Your average game store in a non-NYC setting, most people can play somewhere. SO I'm trying to understand WHY I would go to CT Gamer's game store, or what the hook is to entice me to walk in the door.

Howard A Treesong wrote:How about you fit a vending machine in there? Then the room is free, and they don't have to go far to get a drink/snack.

How about he buy a small fridge and stock sodas?

I'd pay to play here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_kZ9nhEYgc


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Make's me wish I was an aussie

Scott-S6 wrote:Charging just creates a negative attitude in the customers. Sell canned drinks, chocolate bars, crisps (chips to you americans) and you'll turn a good profit on the space.

Don't bother with vending machines - you'll never turn a profit with them unless you have huge footfall, more than a gaming area will ever have. Even workplace vending machines with 40-odd employees barely pay for the rental of the machine. Just get down the cash-and-carry for some crates of coke and boxes of crisps and mars bars.

Most major vendors don't charge you any rental fee for the machine. I made more monthly on Soda sales then any other single product in he store except GW.

And they deliver it to your door.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Two separate discussion going on here.

First: The LGS is a failed buisness model. Those that survive in this day and age are the exception to the rule.

They are trying to cater to a niche market that can find more for less on-line and who use this advantage to bully and threaten store owners into maintainign personal clubhouses for them.

The owner is in a catch-22 because he is trying to maintain a buisness that is flawed in concept to begin with and who can't afford to do much of anythign that challenges the status quo (despite that status quo leading to a failed buisness far more times then not) becasue of threats and fears of customer reprisals. Not a healthy situation to be in from a buisness perspective, but sadly is usually the case when it comes to game stores.

Most people utilise an LGS for impulse buying and becaue of the free gaming space not any true loyalty to said buisness on owners. That is evident by the attitudes expressed here.


So in short I wouldn't expect you to come to my store if you had one, and in this day and age I wouldn't choose to have one.

Heck I have a private club and a private game room that is far better stocked with terrain and tables then any LGS in my state. I felt I could build and mainatin a better game room then any local lgs and so have no need to travel to play I also prefer to not waste my time slumming it with the internet tough guys and cliques that form at most LGS. Product arrives from my on-line retailer of choice quickly and at discount to boot. So yes, why ever play at an LGS indeed...

All that being said the OP asked about charging for game space, and my stance is still that it is perfectly in an owners right to do so. And if I had an LGS that I frequented, respected, and whose terrain and space I utilized I would be more then happy to do so. Anyone who cops an attitude like those expresse din this thread about having a "right" to free gaming space is a grade a d-bag as far as I'm concerned. Just don't be surprised when the last of the LGS are gone...

CT GAMER wrote:
They are trying to cater to a niche market that can find more for less on-line and who use this advantage to bully and threaten store owners into maintainign personal clubhouses for them.

.......

Most people utilise an LGS for impulse buying and becaue of the free gaming space not any true loyalty to said buisness on owners. That is evident by the attitudes expressed here.

When I was living in UT I played at a FLGS with free gaming space. Every time I played there, if I didn't buy any models I'd be sure to buy paint or sodas or something. When I started playing a new game, I could have bought everything online for a discount, but I bought it at the FLGS instead. The reason I did this was because the owner provided a place for me to play for free, and went out of his way to make the store a place I wanted to be. Yeah, I was loyal to that store, as were a lot of his customers.

Anyway, just saying as a customer I agree with pretty much everything Mikhalia says here as an owner.

CT GAMER wrote:...Anyone who cops an attitude like those expresse din this thread about having a "right" to free gaming space is a grade a d-bag as far as I'm concerned. Just don't be surprised when the last of the LGS are gone...

Nobody said it was a right except you when you're talking about customers' reactions. People have said they wouldn't pay for play and I said I was fine with paying for play IF it was up front. I also said I would have no problems (at a pay-for-play store) with buying online any more because I am paying directly for the benefit of the space. I didn't see anyone saying it was a 'right', directly or indirectly.

It's also not surprising that players who have been granted the privilege of playing at a location and then have to pay-for-play due to LGS economics would be put off. I guarantee if the next time you went to Wal-Mart and they required a ticket for the privilege of parking in their lot or, say, 50 cents to use their pay toilets, you would be annoyed. People get used to things. Doesn't make 'em d'bags.

I personally would rather do the model you discuss where a group goes ala British playing style and just form a club and pitch in that way.

First: The LGS is a failed buisness model. Those that survive in this day and age are the exception to the rule.

They are trying to cater to a niche market that can find more for less on-line and who use this advantage to bully and threaten store owners into maintainign personal clubhouses for them.

The owner is in a catch-22 because he is trying to maintain a buisness that is flawed in concept to begin with and who can't afford to do much of anythign that challenges the status quo (despite that status quo leading to a failed buisness far more times then not) becasue of threats and fears of customer reprisals. Not a healthy situation to be in from a buisness perspective, but sadly is usually the case when it comes to game stores.

So your store failed, and you're bitter, and rather than blame yourself for the failure, it's easier to blame the customers and the 'failed business model'. Got it!

Sorry if I disagree. I've had gaming shops for 22 years. Good times, rough times. Still here. I'll be here 20 years from now. (No choice, somehow have a pair of identical twin girls, and it's 14 years until they even start colledge!)

My 'clubhouse' is 2200 square feet in a mall, with 9k in rent. We also have a 2500 square foot gaming area we also rent from the mall. I have 24 GW tournaments scheduled in the next year, with lots of support from GW. ( I like to 'challenge the status quo' I guess).

I absolutely do cater to a niche market. But because I do cater to them, they support me, and my stores are still open.

You have an opinion on whether or not to charge for gaming space. The OP can choose to ignore the overwhelming response from gamers, and from someone who runs stores, or take the advice of the bitter guy who doesn't have a store, buys on line, and plays in his basement.

mikhaila wrote:

I absolutely do cater to a niche market. But because I do cater to them, they support me, and my stores are still open.

You have an opinion on whether or not to charge for gaming space. The OP can choose to ignore the overwhelming response from gamers, and from someone who runs stores, or take the advice of the bitter guy who doesn't have a store, buys on line, and plays in his basement.

Ultimately, Milhaila seems to be the one FLGS owner that actually gets it, that I've run across, but sadly dont see around me at all anymore. Whether its GW, PP, RPG's, CCG's.


If you want my support, you have to give me support. Telling me open gaming for 40k is Wensday's from 6-9pm only isnt support. Having no wargmaing on the weekend isnt support. No model selection isnt support. Charging me on top of it to play definately isnt support.

You really sound like an old bitter game store owner CT Gamer.

I think I'll go with Mikhaila on this one. If the FLGS was a failed business model, there wouldn't be any. Simple as that. However, there are many FLGS's across the globe. You tend to find at least one in every major city. There have many people in this thread chipping in with how they support their local store. I'm pretty sure they didn't invent the existence of their flgs for the sole purpose of contradicting your opinion. Not only that, I'm pretty sure they don't 'threaten' the owner.

With an attitude like 'What we want as consumers and what we deserve or have a right to demand are too different things', I can see perfectly well why your store failed. I don't think I'd want to shop there.

Gamers in general DO NOT PAY hourly rates to play, ANYWHERE.

As to special events, tournaments, special battle rates, etc. Hell yes. We pay for things of that nature. But just to walk in to a room with a couple of tables, and think someone is going to pay is not knowing the customer base.

Alternative ideas to genrate cash flow-

Monthly tournys.

Painting contests.

Special planetary campaigns.

War!!!

Club recruiting nights.

Special Events renting.

Introductory Gaming and painting classes.

Modeling and game system classes.

Weekly gaming special events.

Cherity events.

Beginners club.

Veterans Swap Meets.

Gaming Yard/Garage Sales- (Think you guys over the pond call them boot sales.)

Special events such as guest stars, artists, or special appearences.

Basicly you put events together to make customers WANT to come to the store for something special.

A room with a couple of tables and nothing else and you think someone wants to pay?Hmmm...

In all seriousness, I would want to pay if you had a room full of tables with different scenery styles on them, with different adventure hooks to them, with a couplf of different GAme Masters , throughout the game area with a elaborate battle system where each of the tables interrelate, and scenery would have something to do with the adventure.

I saw this system at an undisclosed location. It not only drew serious crowds, it drew a local television station for a bit on the evening news...

Example, ( D Day Invasion of planet X)

Planetery assult on the whole map. The gaming starts at 0900 on a Saturday, and the war will last until Sunday at 1700.
Choosing up sides, introductory briefings, and initial planning stages from 09-1000

Each side needs an overall commander, and force subcommanders. They all have an initial planetary assult on random tables. Maybe some get one tqalbe, makbe others get the same tables, whatever.
The tables have different types of terraign, maybe Table 1- Urban Center, Table 2- Jungle, Table 3, Desert/ wasteland, Table 4-mountain pass, Table 5- Chaosscape

Each table has a game master/ Judge who will throw in different things such as Air strikes, Maybe a random unit, maybe some civilinas, maybe some special events that will give out something like prizes, or some special edge.
The game master serves as a judge and go between for the diferent tables that will interact with each other. ( Maybe the artillery is on one side of the room, then the units on the other side of the room want an artillery berrage. Mayeb you have a titan battle going on and random stray shots are flying all over the room to the different tables.)

Basicly FOG OF WAR action throughout the war.
For the battles, the games last two or thre turns, then advance, or not depending on the ebb and flow of the battle. You make the terraign the 3d radnodm player in the battle with the addition of wandering animals, units, deserters, or cultists, maybe you get a couple of objective markerts that react to the battle. ( You get to Objective 273 and find a decimated IG squad, you either save it, or capture it, giving you access to a platoon of reinforcemnts for your next battle, or they have access to a vehicle that will join you in the next turn.

Give a grand prize at the end of the campaign, or give out battlefield commendations to the winners and losers, and make yourself some photos, and hang them up like old school WW2 pictures of the battle, or make collages of the different battles. ( The battle of Ardennes 234, The War for the Urr, Orks Drift, etc.)

Give returning players incentives, such as additional access to special perks.
such as - A guy comes in for his first battle, he gets a basic army. A guy comes in for his sixth, he gets acess to D10 baneblade strikes for the duration of the battle.

ETC ETC ETC.

I played in a gamestore where I had access to running random monsters around on tables in opposition to adventureres. I ended up using a trapped cottage as a honey pit where I would lead random gullible people to thier doom.- Same concept, but the plaers ran small skermish level battles throughout the day.

Necromunda and Mordhiem work excellently for this as well.

"Privledge" does not enter the conversation in a game store. A game store is supposed to be the hub of gaming, when you push the hub as this idea does, it will only end up next door, or down the street at the local library, and you will become the local gaming joke who actually has no idea of your local areas gaming interests.

You WANT costumers. Do stuff that brings them to you.

If not, why even open up a gaming store?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CT GAMER wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:Charging just creates a negative attitude in the customers. Sell canned drinks, chocolate bars, crisps (chips to you americans) and you'll turn a good profit on the space.

Don't bother with vending machines - you'll never turn a profit with them unless you have huge footfall, more than a gaming area will ever have. Even workplace vending machines with 40-odd employees barely pay for the rental of the machine. Just get down the cash-and-carry for some crates of coke and boxes of crisps and mars bars.

Most major vendors don't charge you any rental fee for the machine. I made more monthly on Soda sales then any other single product in he store except GW.

And they deliver it to your door.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Two separate discussion going on here.

First: The LGS is a failed buisness model. Those that survive in this day and age are the exception to the rule.

They are trying to cater to a niche market that can find more for less on-line and who use this advantage to bully and threaten store owners into maintainign personal clubhouses for them.

The owner is in a catch-22 because he is trying to maintain a buisness that is flawed in concept to begin with and who can't afford to do much of anythign that challenges the status quo (despite that status quo leading to a failed buisness far more times then not) becasue of threats and fears of customer reprisals. Not a healthy situation to be in from a buisness perspective, but sadly is usually the case when it comes to game stores.

Most people utilise an LGS for impulse buying and becaue of the free gaming space not any true loyalty to said buisness on owners. That is evident by the attitudes expressed here.


So in short I wouldn't expect you to come to my store if you had one, and in this day and age I wouldn't choose to have one.

Heck I have a private club and a private game room that is far better stocked with terrain and tables then any LGS in my state. I felt I could build and mainatin a better game room then any local lgs and so have no need to travel to play I also prefer to not waste my time slumming it with the internet tough guys and cliques that form at most LGS. Product arrives from my on-line retailer of choice quickly and at discount to boot. So yes, why ever play at an LGS indeed...

All that being said the OP asked about charging for game space, and my stance is still that it is perfectly in an owners right to do so. And if I had an LGS that I frequented, respected, and whose terrain and space I utilized I would be more then happy to do so. Anyone who cops an attitude like those expresse din this thread about having a "right" to free gaming space is a grade a d-bag as far as I'm concerned. Just don't be surprised when the last of the LGS are gone...

I don't think i can agree with this sentiment.

Gamers who bully the store?

Where is this happening at?

It isn't about rights, its about developing an atmosphere that caters to a clientel. The clientel then WANTS to spend money on hobby and gaming.
They will do it willingly, as well, as long as you cultivate a common interest.

Alienate them at your own and your stores peril.

Have you ever been to a game store like the one you are describing? How long did it stay in buisness, before it caved in?

Grot 6 wrote:
said lots of stuff

But that sounds like WORK!