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I prefer melta too. Problem is, in IG they're only useful with vets. And then they need to get to enemy lines....

So I always take a squad with valks, put plas in another squad with a chimera and then another flame vet squad in chimera. Basicly, drop melts behind tanks, drive plas towards MCs. But melts still work well against infantry, since basicly at 12" range they still kill 2 in a vet squad, which is quite a bit better than lasguns

Dav_venneto wrote:Plasma vets love plasma guns, especially when their melta vets freinds got crushed by those carnifexes with 1 wound left...

You need a source to reliable drop MC's before they reach you so use Rapidfiring weapons while ignoring the nearby swarms coming for you. They're also good for killing TEQs with Stormshields, who usually have an attached T4 IC to soak wounds.

Vendettas do all this. And have range. And don't kill themselves when firing...and instadeath toughness 4 so Vulkan doesn't take a wound for the Termies...

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, but can your plasma kill tanks

That depends. Is the melta gun within 6"? What is the AV you are hitting? Are there special rules?

Shooting at a eldar war walker with a melta gun is less effective than shooting with 2 plasma gun shots. Assuming all shots hit, the plasma gun has 2 chances to penetrate (50% per shot) while the melta gun only has one 2/3 shot to penetrate. While the melta gun does get +1 on the damage chart, does the advantage go tot he extra shots or the +1 damage?

Melta guns are great vs heavy armor up close. Melta guns are great for the instant kill on nob bikers.
The question should not be melta vs. plasma, but how many melta vs. plasma guns will I bring?

The Space Wolves can take 2 Plasma Guns
Take a Pack with 2 PG, put them in a Rhino with an extra Storm Bolter and it gives you a M113 ACAV

MagicJuggler wrote:

Dav_venneto wrote:Plasma vets love plasma guns, especially when their melta vets freinds got crushed by those carnifexes with 1 wound left...

You need a source to reliable drop MC's before they reach you so use Rapidfiring weapons while ignoring the nearby swarms coming for you. They're also good for killing TEQs with Stormshields, who usually have an attached T4 IC to soak wounds.

Vendettas do all this. And have range. And don't kill themselves when firing...and instadeath toughness 4 so Vulkan doesn't take a wound for the Termies...

And, of course, are scoring, get easy cover, can take 7 wounds(hits) before stop shooting Ap 2 death, receive orders, get to ground... And they arent an S7 fire magnet!!

I'm a fan of Plasma because of the people I play with (Tau, Crons, Nids and Chaos) none of them run a lot of armor so melta shots are wasted (unless it's spikey, the plague marine rhino...damn thing...). I know the risks but I pack plasma into my squads. Take my "Tetra Squad" for example. Sargent has 1 PP, Combi Plasma. PG and PC. backed up by squad Helios (Same load out) they are able to remove those pesky death guard.

But is plasma gun worth 5 points more than melta? I've seldom found the 50% increase in cost worth it.

depends on the army

if your special weapons are limited, then the extra points are worth it

if you get special weapons by the handful, maybe not.

"twice as expensive" isnt really an argument, because you can't give every single guy a melta unless you are running a death company army. To do the most with the options you have sometimes you have to pony up for a more expensive upgrade than a cheaper more efficient one.

also for any of you guys, I need some SM dev plasma cannons+multimeltas with the backpacks if you want to trade

Will wrote:But is plasma gun worth 5 points more than melta? I've seldom found the 50% increase in cost worth it.

Then you have never had a "Leaf-Blower" shoot-out at 18" becouse you are packing Melta's and Flamaers only.
With my Space Puppies I tend to run a Hybrid Gunline [Grey Hunters]/Assualty [Blood Claws]
The Plasma Gun GH Packs create a 24" bubble that only the hardiest vehicles will enter.
You put them in the center and you control the center.
Now I am not talking overall tactics or what is suporting what.

I also think of Plasma Guns like a .50 Sniper Rifle: They are Anti-Material with exelent Anti-Personal potential. You get a bunch ot them covering open ground most infantry units will think twice before crossing it.

I guess it's a case of YMMV but vs MC I'll take the 2 S7 shots then the 1 S8

If i am fighting an army that I know will run lots of MC, yes, i agree. However, when forming tourney armies, or just tossing some premade lists for speed, I usually go melta, they are more reliable in most cases, make most people thing twice about bringing their important vehicles close by, and don't blow up the user.

Meltaguns are anti-vehicle weapons. Plasmaguns are anti-infantry weapons. The OP is basically asking "why take heavy bolters when you can take lascannons?" it's kind of silly given that they fill different roles.

Really, the question shouldn't be plasma v. melta, but should be plasma v. flamers. Plasma are much easier to use and are better against low-model-count units (like MCs, ogryn, and stragglers of larger units), but are worse against high-model-count units and are much more expensive.

Talking about things like vehicles (except perhaps AV10) and "gets hot" are red herrings, in my opinion.

Ailaros wrote:Meltaguns are anti-vehicle weapons. Plasmaguns are anti-infantry weapons. The OP is basically asking "why take heavy bolters when you can take lascannons?" it's kind of silly given that they fill different roles.

Really, the question shouldn't be plasma v. melta, but should be plasma v. flamers. Plasma are much easier to use and are better against low-model-count units (like MCs, ogryn, and stragglers of larger units), but are worse against high-model-count units and are much more expensive.

Talking about things like vehicles (except perhaps AV10) and "gets hot" are red herrings, in my opinion.

This.

There is no comparrison between the two. You have three options for special weapons in a SM squad, four in an IG Squad:

Melta - Designed for a squad that will get within 6" of a vehicle and then try and kill it should be used in multiples since the likelihood of missing is significant enough that you have just commited a squad to go into a kill zone and if the melta misses you have failed to achieve you objective.

Flamer/Grenade Launcher - Only good against lightly armed troops in large squads against MEQ and TEQ they will be lucky to cause a wound.

Plasma: designed to kill MEQ/TEQ forget the light armour killer that is a job for other units and should only be considered if you really have nothing else to shoot at. Plasma guns reliably kill one model per turn which in itself is not much but it means that when firing them on mass of in conjunction with bolters/lasguns your chances of causing 25% casualties on another squad is significantly increased.

This is what the weapons do but you shouldn't compare the weapons you should decide the role of your squad and choose the weapon that fits the role not choose one for all comers because you will invaribly loose out. Weapons should complement each other and the role of the squad.

Yeah, but you can't be quite so quick to dismiss flamers against non-light-infantry.

A 3x flamer special weapons squad, assuming it hits all 10 marines, kills 5 marines, while a 3x plasma squad only kills 2.5. Likewise, against a 5x terminator squad, a batch of flamers and a batch of plasma kill the same amount.

Flamers can do more damage, and are much cheaper, but plasma guns are much easier to use (thus do much more reliable damage), but are much more expensive.

The real difference in damage comes not from T4 infantry but clouds of T3 infantry (flamers) and individual T6 infantry (plasma).

What sort of an idiot would position his 10 man marine squad in such a position that all three flamer templates can hit ten marines. I can guarantee that if a company command squad or vet squad with flamers ort plasmas is that close to a bunched up tac squad then the marine general is an idiot.

not really. often I put my librarian RIGHT next to an enemy rhino, maybe 3" away, then pump it full of missiles from my typhoons untill it dies. Hopefully, I get a pen 6, so they have to disembark directly in front of my librarian, in the crater of the rhino (a small, compact area) and his squad... who then blasts them with avenger.

The other thing to think about that most forget about is ease of use.
-Flamer: This is a Point Blank Assualt Weapon. You have to get Real Close to make it Effective and then if you don't finish off the bad guys, you are in real trouble if you fired your Rapid Fire Weapon
-Melta Gun: This is a Close Range Anti-Tank Weapon. You have to get Real Close to make it Effective and then if you don't finish off the bad guys, you are in real trouble if you fired your Rapid Fire Weapon
-Plasma Guns: Are just a S-7 AP-2 Bolt Gun/Las Gun, so thier nis no "Do I fire or Assuatl?" Question.

Honersstodnt wrote:not really. often I put my librarian RIGHT next to an enemy rhino, maybe 3" away, then pump it full of missiles from my typhoons untill it dies. Hopefully, I get a pen 6, so they have to disembark directly in front of my librarian, in the crater of the rhino (a small, compact area) and his squad... who then blasts them with avenger.

So nothing to do with my point whatsoever that is a librarian not a flamer

Ed_Bodger wrote:What sort of an idiot would position his 10 man marine squad in such a position that all three flamer templates can hit ten marines. I can guarantee that if a company command squad or vet squad with flamers ort plasmas is that close to a bunched up tac squad then the marine general is an idiot.

The new BA codex has created the temptation to deep strike 10 assault marines in and fire 2 melta guns instead of running them.

Other than that there are ways to maximize template hits.

Infantry don't get a consolidate after they assault a non WS vehicle.

A good tank shock with a Chimera can force the other player to cluster his infantry.

It's possible to cluster infantry like crazy if they IG player tank shocks a squad after they assault a vehicle.

'nuff said.

Nah, plasma cannons are awesome.. probably my favorite weapon

The executioner plasma cannon.. three plasma cannon shots without gets hot, meaning it will always be firing.. and when you shove plasma can sponsons on with a lascannon, it can kill virtually everything.. unfortunately it comes in at almost as much as a naked land raider.. 5pts more than a redeemer.. eh, if that las kills a tank and then the plasma kills a squad or two, I'm happy.

As a BA player I now get Command Squad/Honor Guard with any HQ choice---I spam plasma as a way of life!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286158.page

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
'nuff said.

Nah, plasma cannons are awesome.. probably my favorite weapon

The executioner plasma cannon.. three plasma cannon shots without gets hot, meaning it will always be firing.. and when you shove plasma can sponsons on with a lascannon, it can kill virtually everything.. unfortunately it comes in at almost as much as a naked land raider.. 5pts more than a redeemer.. eh, if that las kills a tank and then the plasma kills a squad or two, I'm happy.

It's not as if you're getting robbed. Say you equip it with 100% plasma cannons, you're getting 6 PC templates. CSM pay 450 points for 6 Oblits putting out that many PC templates.

For pure bang for your buck, that thing is well worth it.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
'nuff said.

Nah, plasma cannons are awesome.. probably my favorite weapon

The executioner plasma cannon.. three plasma cannon shots without gets hot, meaning it will always be firing.. and when you shove plasma can sponsons on with a lascannon, it can kill virtually everything.. unfortunately it comes in at almost as much as a naked land raider.. 5pts more than a redeemer.. eh, if that las kills a tank and then the plasma kills a squad or two, I'm happy.

It's not as if you're getting robbed. Say you equip it with 100% plasma cannons, you're getting 6 PC templates. CSM pay 450 points for 6 Oblits putting out that many PC templates.

For pure bang for your buck, that thing is well worth it.

Oh yeah, any day! It's just very annoying if it gets popped first turn by drop podding sternguard or a lucky lascannon or something.. cause it is a helluva lot less durable

Thats why you make sure you have your Inq and mystic near by

Ailaros wrote:Meltaguns are anti-vehicle weapons. Plasmaguns are anti-infantry weapons. The OP is basically asking "why take heavy bolters when you can take lascannons?" it's kind of silly given that they fill different roles.

Really, the question shouldn't be plasma v. melta, but should be plasma v. flamers. Plasma are much easier to use and are better against low-model-count units (like MCs, ogryn, and stragglers of larger units), but are worse against high-model-count units and are much more expensive.

Talking about things like vehicles (except perhaps AV10) and "gets hot" are red herrings, in my opinion.

This.

You can say you prefer melta all you want, but let me see your melta/multimelta take out as many Terminators as my Plasma cannon. Two different tools. Plasma i think is pretty essential because all armies have a form of heavy infantry/MC's/light vehicle that will be threatened by plasma.

Basically, summing up this thread:

Some people like plasma
Some people like melta
Some like both
Plasma generally kills more than melta
melta is useful against the really tough stuff (T8 or more) or if you happen to be near an offending enemy vehicle, or want to assault said terminators/ogryns/MEQs.
They do different stuff.
Plasma is awesome.
Leman Russ Executioner is plasmatic.

Even against T8 stuff, plasma is superior to melta.

With BS4:

12" to 24" range, plasma has 1 shot, hits 0.67 times, wounds 0.22 times; melta has 0 shots, hits 0 times, wounds 0 times.

0" to 12" range, plasma has 2 shots, hits 1.33 times, wounds 0.44 times; melta has 1 shot, hits 0.67 times, wounds 0.33 times.

Plasma on vehicles ( armoured sentinel, leman russ executioner ) is great. It has no wounds so doesn't wound them on gets hot results.. And can take down all but the toughest targets.

Plasma FTW! The reason plasma is amazing is the plasma cannon. A weapon with 36'' range is good, S is enough for a 2+ on infantry and some potential vehicle damage, gets rid of all armor saves, and is blast! The gun and pistol are okay, but melta is only good against tanks, and has a short range, a max 24'', all weapons have to be within 12'' to melta, and it they don't cause the vehicle to die, the tank will run them over and kill them. Plasma can go up against both infantry and vehicles. Lastly it is PLASMA! It is so devastating that it has its own rule that might kill people when they use it. It only happens 5.5% of then time to a SM so I do not care about your story where you rolled all ones and your entire squad died.


I have been motivated from this tread that from now on I will put this in my sig.

B.D.

Plasma cannons.... meh?

They can only put one wound on an MC or IC at a time (being able to put multiple wounds on said target type being a key advantage of a plasma gun), and are small blast templates, meaning that a savvy player who is actually afraid of plasma cannons can make it so that you only ever hit one model at most.

Given that it also doesn't ignore cover, there is a LOT that your opponent can do to seriously curb the effectiveness of plasma cannons.

Once again, we're comparing plasma guns to flamers, so we should really be comparing plasma cannons to heavy flamers. While the gun/regular flamer seems basically a toss-up depending on what you want to do, the heavy flamer is clearly superior to the plasma cannon.