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JohnHwangDD wrote:Maybe you should make the SM weaker, so they're not as obvious a threat?

A1 M2 R1 H10-15

Wow, no! I didn't do anything in the first game, I would still less in the second with that stats xD

@Era: The appearance of weakness is what Manchu suggested would work as the key to the Eldar strategy, and look how well it's turning out for them now...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

A3 T1 SM would be murder against T10 armies. Paste a bigger target on their heads!

Isn't it their duty to devastate those armies? ( yep. fluff answer, not aimed at anyone specific ).
Its only the tactical unsound who try to take out SM, they maybe should try to negotiate and look at the possible endgame filled with
all-day-reinforcing factions as a threat. Some risk could enhance the fun.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

1hadhq wrote:I'll be free to join soon.

Not sure which factions fate to Ruin next.

Play SMs!

I don't know, maybe enlighten me why I should play the weakest faction.
Could also choose something different, as I am open to fill any gaps or provide a ingame example of a factions rules.
Again, examples from one who will not play perfectly rather gain something to think about, as its unlikely that everyone willing to play a faction primarily intends to win. Some just play for fun.

Manchu wrote:I am open to suggestions on SM. I feel like they are getting left behind. Short of allowing them to strafe (JSJ), I've been drawing a blank.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Maybe you should make the SM weaker, so they're not as obvious a threat?

A1 M2 R1 H10-15

Why am I not surprised?

Keeping the issues, and weakening the attacks.
How should this improve anything?
Change to worthless isn't a good thing and i believe most of us prefer to have a choice what they play without considering the
false perceptions of other players.
SM aren't the "obvious threat". They weren't in game one and will not in game two.
The oh-so threatened didn't have much to do to get rid of the SM. Shall we recount the SM?

The friendly gamers running SM couldn't think of anything else than destroy any 10wound faction.
Seems successful as the SM (also 10 wounds) are out.
Maybe consider the few hits dealt from SM as hint on the power of reinforcing vs a mere +1 in attacks.

M2 becomes more common with new factions. A 1 doesn't give you any option as you can't attack and leave so you end right in front of
a faction, hitting it with a mere 1 wound and receiving possibly 2. But you could reinforce and now have -1 wound whilst your target reinforces 1-3 wounds and maybe is stronger after your attack. More of these ideas?
So 15 wounds should make up for the lack of special abilities. Thus, the SM has to jump around, reinforce several turns,
hit something with a pointless attack and then runs to regain his wounds. I am not impressed.
If this is your whole suggestion, why not remove them and replace them with another faction?

Cmon, we all assume the issue is what happened in game one.
Transfer the examples to game 2 and if you honestly could play SM yourself, then I may listen. Otherwise any attempt to ruin
a faction you don't play yourself isn't that convincing that we should follow your suggestions.

I really love SM, but such weaksauce variant of them is an offense to the background of 40k and i recommend to offer any interested player a faction worth playing.

When the SM players play to type in-game, as seen in Final Liberation, what can you expect?

SPACE MARINE
(thundering)

"FOR THE EMPEROR!!!"


COMMISSAR
*looks at the exceptionally big and strong, but none-too-bright SM standing in front of him*

"for the Emperor!"


I love that scene.

Its now the fault of the SM players to keep it with the narrative, rather than focus on winning?

Too bad we didn't feel the need to ignore the background. Erasoketa was a fine Templar

So when do we see JHDD playing this statline/ rules he suggested for SM?

How about editing the statline/ rules into a viable suggestion instead of this joke? As it must be a joke, a serious contribution can't be that weird.

Sign me up please.

The Night Lords 14th Company headed up by the as of yet unnamed Captain and his also as of yet named Lieutenant will return.

The rules for Eldar are solid, that should keep JohnDD happy for now.
Space Marines are good too, their low hit points but high attacks will make them much sought after in allies, and SM will need them to survive past the first couple of turns.

I'll probably try out sisters. Order of the Bloody Rose.

*throws a hissy about Linear boards*

DD if your wondering why your getting attacking in game 1 right now.. this thread provides the answers. (hint read your own posts)

Space marines are fine as they are. I have no complaints.

@Shaman: I was going to get attacked in game 1 regardless.

As for Space Marines, I'm merely responding to questions.

Actually that is not so. I wouldn't have pushed as I have to attack you had you followed dakkas no.1 rule. I was fully anti Imperium before your posts started to irritate. You only have yourself to blame.


@ nightwatch I appreciate your efforts with the moves list. Should you compile it.

For game two being a flat board this is how I see each of the factions as things stand at the time of this post:

Chaos SM's- one of the top armies best adapted for the linear board. Only real negatve is that they are very unlikely to ever hit max strength due to the "May only reinforce while moving before an attack" rule.

Eldar-Very strong and mobile may be the strongest army for this board layout. Negative is that they will draw a lot of fire due to their abilities.

IG- Probably the best army to for less resilient armies to ally with. Lack of mobility will work against them in the end game.

Orks- By themselves are the perfect faction to ignore. When/if 3 Ork Clans become allied and max strength then they will be a problem that will be difficult to beat.

SM's- Are hard hitters but two fragile to for the threat they represent. They will need a resilient home base alliy to shelter under as they reinforce.

Tyranids-Really good on their own but will auto-lose if in a final two with IG.

Now for the proposed factions

Tau- Useless unless their is 2 or more Tau armies on the field. With 2 armies working together they still have a hard road against any other faction in the endgame.

Sisters- Good alliance army for the Imperiom factions. Lack of mobility means they auto-lose in end game with SM and Stalemate with IG.

Dark Eldar- The most viable of the proposed armies.



Right now I'm leaning towards SM's

@ff: Glad you liked the DE. I thought that was a pretty clever write-up for them but the main stumbling block was coming up with a solid Eldar stat line, which I think I have now managed to hammer out. As for Sisters, they are meant for people like 1hadhq and EF (and myself, TBH), who are enjoy characterful play as much as or more than WAAC play. I think either of those guys would be at least content with an "Imperial victory" in contrast to the narrower and harder to manage Survivor victory. I am not satisfied with Tau at the moment, as they are a bit too close to Orks. Watch out for those Orks by the way! A close reading of their rules should show they are more dangerous now than before.

My current idea about SM is to leave them at A 3 T 1 and put the same limit on them as is currently on Tyranid. John makes a good point about them being a high-profile target but I think part of that is a strategy itself. What would suit a Nids player more than having everyone else gang up on what threatens him the most?

We're still looking to firm up the Tau rules and invent something for Necrons. Thanks for all the feedback everybody. As always, your comments and suggestions are sincerely appreciated.

SM with Max 25? How does that even begin to make sense? I mean, I understand Max 15 due to Chaos having the same but Max 25? Maybe you're talking about something else.

Anyway, here are my proposed rules for Necrons:


Necrons
Attakcs: 2 Targets: 1/2 (Necrons Choice) Move: 1 Reinforce: 1 Start: 10 Max: 20-25?
Special Rule: The Necrons Awaken
Throughout the galaxy tomb world are slowly awakening, the trickle of Necron Warriors turns into a flood as evermore awake and reach the surface. At the end of the necron player's turn (once they have posted) the Necron forces are automatically reinforced by one. The Necron player does not need to move or attack for this to occur.

At the beggining of the game the Necron player will be relatively non-threatening and possibly docile as far as armies go. But as the game reaches it's mid-section/end game it quickly becomes a powerful force on it's own. Should the auto-reinforce be 1 or 2? Here's the other special rule.

Super-Best-Super-Friends
Necrons may not attack an SM army named Blood Angels and vice versa. When in the same arena both sides get extra attacks against Tyranid factions.

@Manchu- I just realized that there is a game mechanic in play that you may have overlooked for use as an army modifier/defining point. It is the wound/points chart and how much damage a unit takes. You have modifiers for what can be dealt out and how quickly you can re-inforce, but aside from a base&max number of wounds there is nothing else.

What I'm getting at is for known "tough armies"(Sv 3+ T4 in the game) you could put a modifier on the number of wounds that the Army will take. Basically, If you had necrons and they were attacked by a A2 army you could have them with a rule stating that they only take one wound max from any individual army in a single turn.

Just an idea

focusedfire wrote:Basically, If you had necrons and they were attacked by a A2 army you could have them with a rule stating that they only take one wound max from any individual army in a single turn.

Just an idea

Just a freaking awesome idea! Watch this post.

Combining insights from ff and EF, I present:

Necrons
A 2 T 1 M 1 R 1 Start 15 Max 15
We'll Be Back!: The ancient Necron are death personified; they will show the galaxy once again that only death cannot itself be killed.
Necron factions that take more than one wound from an attack by a single faction will automatically gain one wound per such attack back on their following turn,
assuming they survived the preceding turn. They regain these wounds even if they are also reinforcing that turn.

So here's how this would play out:

With this set-up . . .

Alpha
Space Marines 10

Beta

Gamma
Necrons 15
Dark Eldar 10

On Turn One . . .

SM move to Gamma, attack Necrons; Dark Eldar attack Necrons, move to Alpha; Necrons attack SM:

Alpha
Dark Eldar 10

Beta

Gamma
Space Marines 8
Necrons 10

On Turn Two . . .

Necrons move to Beta, reinforces one, and gain one wound each back from SM and DE Turn One attacks:

Alpha
Dark Eldar 10

Beta
Necrons 13

Gamma
Space Marine 8

What do you guys think?

@Shaman: I apologize if I crossed some line in the trash talk. Otherwise, yeah, I completely expected to go out in flames, and I blame nobody else for that.

In-character trash talking is the most fun, I think.

@ DD I will finish what I started (try to out zandros) but, all is forgiven and forgotten.

@ Manchu -Necrons look scary, yet cool I am tempted to change to them. Very nice work on the rules manchu, EF & FF.

I'm worried about the Necron regenerate thing. Is the onus on the Necron player to remember the correct regen amount? In the case that they miss a turn I'm guessing they don't regain any wounds lost in an attack.

Additionally, I think it should be a max wounds of 2 to be inflicted before the others regenerate, not 1. Otherwise the Necron player will just reinforce that 1 "real" wound, making them impervious to even the most sustained of aussualts.

Also, if the board is to be linear I propose that Eldar movement is restriced from M* to something more like M4 or 5. They really will dominate on a linear board here.

spelling - aussault.

@EF: you know, you can [edit] your post to fix spelling, right?

Meh. Loading times. Probably Eldar dickery.

Finally free to join

Would like to subscribe, just not dead set on a faction.
May post mostly in the Second half of a 24h turn.

I don't totally understand your concern about the Necrons, EF. Could you explain further and maybe use an example like the one I set up. Also, I am not worried about Eldar dominating a Linear Board. They have enough to work against that their M score is a balance rather than a bonus. @all: New factions CANNOT be chosen at this time. Game Two's focus is running beta on the original factions. A lot more thought needs to go into thenew guys before people start picking them.

1hadhq wrote:Would like to subscribe, just not dead set on a faction.

Don"t worry about being set on one. You will be able to change your choice up until the beginning of Game Two. Be sure to read the new stat lines carefully as a lot of small changes have been made and are continuing to be made.

Manchu wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Would like to subscribe, just not dead set on a faction.

Don"t worry about being set on one. You will be able to change your choice up until the beginning of Game Two. Be sure to read the new stat lines carefully as a lot of small changes have been made and are continuing to be made.

I always keep an eye on the actual rulesets.
So is this 'new' faction thing a addon for game 3 or still later available in game 2?

Did see how Funny the Poll turns out, like 16 votes = 4/4/4/4

I have to pull out.

Unsign me up please.

The Command List for the Permanent Factions is up:

Chaos Space Marines

A) Attack(1,1), Move(1)
B) Move(1), Attack(1,1), Reinforce(1)

Eldar

A) Move(*), Reinforce(1)
B) Attack(1), Move(*), Attack(1)

Imperial Guard

A) Reinforce(3)
B) Move(1)
C) Attack(1,1,1)

Orks

A) Move(2), Reinforce(2)
B) Move(2), Attack(1)
C) Attack(1), Move(2)

Space Marines

A) Move(2), Reinforce(1)
B) Move(2), Attack(3)

Tyranids

A) Attack(1,1), Reinforce(2)
B) Attack(2), Reinforce(1)
C) Move(1)

These commands are based on the statlines and special rules written in the first post, but without rules involving circumstance, like having two Ork factions in one world.

When another race gets accepted to the mix I'd be happy to add it.

This may not be perfect, correct me where I'm wrong!

Awesome work, Nightwatch! It all looks good to me.