What is the most overpowered thing you can do with orks?

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**vikings vs mafia**

When Snikrot outflanks, he picks his table edge. Space wolf scouts do the same thing. Are you seriously telling me that because you pick the edge that it's not outflanking?

He moves on from a table edge that isn't yours. That's what outflanking is. It is a modification of the outflanking rule that his unit has.

**ChrisCP**

Again where does it say snikrot outflanks or uses the rule outflanks, or another angle is which rule does he use to get onto the table.

**The Fox Lord**

Accualy Snikrot dosenot Outflank or Infiltrate, he Ambushes, which allows his unit to come in on any table edge from reserve, the unit in no way outflanks or infiltrates.

**vikings vs mafia**

Doesn't matter.

p. 48, BRB
"When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified otherwise in the rule itself (as in the 'stubborn' special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

Ambush makes no mention of conferring the ability to an IC, so it simply doesn't.

If you want to keep arguing about this there's already a thread for it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=posts&action=list&topic_id=225132&viewResults=true

**Dracos**

Except you are missing something. No one is saying the IC gets the special rule ambush. What they are saying is that as part of his unit, any model is affected by it. It is not conferred on the models in his unit, including ICs, only snikrot actually has the ability. Even still, the wording of the rule allows for all models attached to the unit (even though they do not themselves have the ambush special rule) to come in with him.

This is similiar to the wording of stealth, which says the unit gains +1 to cover saves. Each model does not have to have the stealth special rule, since the special rule gives a bonus not to the model possessing it, but the unit.

**The Fox Lord**

Dracos wrote:Except you are missing something. No one is saying the IC gets the special rule ambush. What they are saying is that as part of his unit, any model is affected by it. It is not conferred on the models in his unit, including ICs, only snikrot actually has the ability. Even still, the wording of the rule allows for all models attached to the unit (even though they do not themselves have the ambush special rule) to come in with him.

This is similiar to the wording of stealth, which says the unit gains +1 to cover saves. Each model does not have to have the stealth special rule, since the special rule gives a bonus not to the model possessing it, but the unit.

Exactly. Ambush is Snikrots rule and Snikrots only, however the benifits of this rule affect his whole unit, attached IC's & all.

**ChrisCP**

vikings vs mafia wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=posts&action=list&topic_id=225132&viewResults=true

So you display a poll that 76-51 in favor of our 'side'... from 2008

**Arakasi**

More recent "discussion":
Can you put ICs with Snikrot?

**vikings vs mafia**

ChrisCP wrote:
vikings vs mafia wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=posts&action=list&topic_id=225132&viewResults=true

So you display a poll that 76-51 in favor of our 'side'... from 2008

Read more carefully. 82 to 45 would NOT play the game that way.

It's exploitive and shamefully beardy, and you should feel ashamed of yourself. I would up and leave if you tried that in a friendly game, and the majority of those polled would too.
I'm done discussing this.

**Jaon**

Kommissar Kel wrote:
chowderhead13 wrote:
matthc wrote:The Front Arm of Russes is 14, which means every single one of those shots is now useless. I know you can get rokkits, but come on, we all know their effectiveness versus AV 14. Plus I want to see an all Ork shooting army handle Land Raiders like IG can. Plus Nids can get well over 360 Strength 4 shots a turn.

That's why you send the PK Kommando Nob With Snikrot in to blow the snot out of it.

Where are you getting this PK kommando Nob with Snikkrot? You get one or the other never both; that line for taking snikrot says: "Instead of a Nob, one mob may be led by:"

Matthc: The fleshborer is only a 12" weapon, so Orks can out-range it; The devourer on the other hand does get the same range and an extra shot, but the termagaunts carrying it still only have 1 attack(to the orks 2), less WS(doesn't always make a difference), and makes them cost 4 points more/model, all while not having furious charge.

Yes Orks can out-shoot even horde-guard, and easily out-shoot tau; but they do this while closing to assault.

Orks can out-fight other dedicated Close combat armies; 30-ork strong mobs with 4 attacks apiece at str 4(4 attacks at Str 9) and fearless means you will be in combat until you die, Break, or the Orks finally break(after losing more than 2/3 their unit, and good luck with that by the way); sure they cannot run-down units in SA very often but they can set those units up to be assaulted again(if enough of them survive to not be constantly running off table/they are Space marines)

If one more *insert multiple curses here* tries to imply orks can outshoot ANY ARMY one more time, im going to be forced to ask them to verse me in a custom game where there is no assault phase. All this blabbering of outshooting when really its your assaulting thats doing the damage. No, orks cannot outshoot a hoard guard army by a long shot. Trust me, bs2 hurts orks.

**kill dem stunties**

Attach ghazgkull to snikrots kommandoz, and ambush ghaz off the enemies back board edge

Totally raw legal. Theyre not infiltrating, theyre ambushing, and the rule ambush requires nothing to be conferred for the squad to benefit

**Norwulf**

It looks like we got a lil off topic here so I'll throw my overpowered Ork units in. 3 BW with deffrollaz and full of boyz, 2 of which with KFF big meks on board, and 3 fully loaded trukks. Giving you 88 boyz, 6 Nobz and 2 big meks with KFF (I'd put PKs on those meks too). You assault usually on turn 2 and almost always on your own terms. The only thing that screws me when I do this, is playing 3 or more player games or being outnumbered by genestealers, and as always termies feth up my army. Other than that bike nobz are the real ultimate power.

**notabot187**

vikings vs mafia wrote:
ChrisCP wrote:
vikings vs mafia wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=posts&action=list&topic_id=225132&viewResults=true

So you display a poll that 76-51 in favor of our 'side'... from 2008

Read more carefully. 82 to 45 would NOT play the game that way.

It's exploitive and shamefully beardy, and you should feel ashamed of yourself. I would up and leave if you tried that in a friendly game, and the majority of those polled would too.
I'm done discussing this.

And I would refuse to ever play a person who doesn't follow the rules. Why should I or anyone else feel ashamed of doing something completely allowed by the rules? And I feel the same about anybody else that would argue that I shouldn't play my army a certain way. First its no you can't do this... Then its no, you can't take that unit, like ever since its beardy. Then we move to freaking baby 40k where no feelings are ever hurt, and nobody keep scores because that just causes hurt feelings. Look around you. Other armies can deep strike landraiders, remove models with just an initiative test, having flying dreds, outflank their entire army, fire at multiple targets with one unit, ignore invul, ignore cover, ignore eternal warrior rule (look at grey knights force weapons), have their bolters wound on 2s ect. Do you honestly have a problem with somebody doing something that is completely allowed by the rules? Play the game and man up. Consensus building in your hugbox isn't playing the game.

**matthc**

notabot187 wrote:
Kommissar Kel wrote: Yes Orks can out-shoot even horde-guard, and easily out-shoot tau; but they do this while closing to assault.

Orks can out-fight other dedicated Close combat armies; 30-ork strong mobs with 4 attacks apiece at str 4(4 attacks at Str 9) and fearless means you will be in combat until you die, Break, or the Orks finally break(after losing more than 2/3 their unit, and good luck with that by the way); sure they cannot run-down units in SA very often but they can set those units up to be assaulted again(if enough of them survive to not be constantly running off table/they are Space marines)

How often do 30 ork strong mobs actually get into CC fully intact? Fearless means you take extra wounds when you lose. I2 even with FC means you go at the same time as guard, and after nearly everything else. So you will lose models in CC. On average a unit of 30 boyz without any klaws will kill 10 space marines, the nob if you take it will kill just under 2. But what happens when you actually play the game? I've found that those 30 boy fearless squads tend not to be fearless for long, and their power drops of dramatically when you get below half starting size. What dedicated CC armies are you playing against? A boy squad barely holds its own against tacticals when you actually play the game. Something about the shooting phase and how orks lose windrows of boyz during it. How does your barely fearless squad look? Looks like it can take on a tactical squad and win? Sure, but barely... and they will just combat tactics away and shoot you some more. Face a real close combat army, and expect flamers, and assault marines... maybe both. Or units that eat boyz for breakfast (which is nearly every dedicated CC unit in the game)

Now if you can deliver a big squad of orks on your own terms, fully intact, then I will get behind that unit. That is why Kommandos are good. Its part of the reason why I like stormboyz (even though they aren't anything resembling efficient, they are still the fastest jump troops in the game, your opponent has one turn to kill them.) Heck, put 20 boyz in a battle wagon with KFF, they aren't terrible that way. A 30 man squad walking? Good luck catching anything that doesn't want to be caught.

I've been on both sides of 100+ boyz lists, and they aren't all that hard to kill, assuming you brought a balanced list. The big unit of boyz is pretty much a noob slayer unit. It only beats people who don't know better, or brought a unbalanced list.

Agreed. Most people forget how bad fearless wounds are when you have a 6+ armor save. They might as well just remove those models.

**ChocolateGork**

WTF would orks do against a death company army? They get 1 turn of shooting and then die.

And i would say nob bikers but now ive heard of the super ambush ghaz explosion i would have to go with that.

**whitedragon**

ChocolateGork wrote:WTF would orks do against a death company army?

If they were nob bikers, they'd do the same thing that they do to every army.

**ChocolateGork**

Actually i think a death star of nob bikers would lose badly to a death-star of death-company

**Magerk**

Nob bikers except against space wolves. JOTWW will eat ur army (Literally)

**notabot187**

Nob bikers lose hard to TH/SH termies. Really. Each wound kills not saved by a 5+ kills a nob. The weapons that nobs have don't have that great performance against a 3++ and the weapons that matter most, strike at the same Initiative. So 200 point unit beats a 500+ unit. Luckily orks can keep away. Unluckily TH/SH termies ride in land raiders, something orks can't really do well against except in CC with nobs of some sort.

Nob bikers are kinda the obvious cheese in the ork army. There are other hidden gems.

I'm not sure this one works, I've been told it does, but not overly sure. Zogwart has a piece of war gear that gives him d6 poisoned attacks that wound on a 2+. A weird boy in CC that rolls for a shooting attack instead makes his attacks count as power weapons IIRC. Does Zogwarts viper attacks benefit from this? I can't think of any good reason why not. Food for thought. A model with 3 S4 PW attacks (on the charge) + d6 wounds on 2s PW attacks...

**Voodoo Boyz**

I don't get it, If you charge 5 TH+SS Termies into a unit of Nob Bikers that's got the Boss, Waagh Banner, 3 Big Choppa, 3 PK, and 3 Normal guys, even with the Termies charging - the Bikers win. Sure you lose 3 Bikers, but you should have crushed your opponents LR, Termies, and can go on to get the rest of his list.

**Addicted to Bleach**

I just have one question. Why does everyone assume that all of the shootas will be in range? You have 18" range and 180 boyz. Also boyz die extremely quickly to returnfire. The enemy probably has longer range and better BS aswell. And in CC what are the chances that A) all of your boyz are alive and B) they are all within two inches on the charge. Boyz are definately a good troops choice but I just thing that people overestimate their abilities.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Boyz are good, but if you run them with Kans, backed up by Lootas, and you have about 120 of them - then they're pretty friggin good.

It's all about layers that you have to get through; and the Boyz bring more layers than anyone!

**notabot187**

Voodoo Boyz wrote:I don't get it, If you charge 5 TH+SS Termies into a unit of Nob Bikers that's got the Boss, Waagh Banner, 3 Big Choppa, 3 PK, and 3 Normal guys, even with the Termies charging - the Bikers win. Sure you lose 3 Bikers, but you should have crushed your opponents LR, Termies, and can go on to get the rest of his list.

12 regular attacks. 9 big choppa attacks. So 21 attacks. 2/3 hit. so 9 regular, and 6 huge choppa. 4.5 regular wounds. 4 Huge choppa wounds. So just over one TH/SH dead before it attacks. 4 TH/SH guys attack back. That is 12 attacks. 6 hits, 5 wounds. 1 save. Should be about 4 dead bikers. The PK go at the same time. 4 from boss, 9 from regular PK guys. 13 PK attacks. lets round up to 9 hits. 7.5 wounds. TH/SH saves 2/3 of those... So that is 2.4 dead. Let us say 3 dead. So giving the nobs the round up again, there is still 1 guy left. You drew combat. Yet you only killed 160 points worth of guys, and lost a least 200 points. 200 points of guys + 250 point transport taking on a unit that costs at least 775 points? 5 guys with one wound vs 11 guys with 2? Even if you do win, that LR probably moved more than 6, so you are hitting on 6s, and pen all but the WB on 6s (WB needs 5s) So that is 12 S9 attacks 5-6 S10. Soooo 2 S9 hits, and 1 S 10 hit... 33% chance to pen a single time with the nobs. 33% chance to pen a single time with the WB. Then only a 33 pecent chance for each pen to actually destroy? I believe its only 21 percent chance to detroy a LR that moved more than 6 assuming you still have all your PKs (and after at least one round of shooting, and a CC with thunder hammers, that is a big thing to assume)

What happens if you don't get lucky, and don't wipe out that TH unit on their turn? Well, you lost 4+ bikes, then you finish his unit off during your own turn. Then he shoots his entire army including LR into the much smaller bike squad. By the time they are done, there isn't much left I'm betting.

**Voodoo Boyz**

I think your math is a little off there; the Termies should kill 3 Bikers on average, with 1 Termy being left after the end of it.

The LR will be rough to take down with just the Bikers; I'm assuming the other aspects of the Ork list would be after it (Deff Rollas, Regular PK Nobs in Boyz, etc).

**matthc**

I'm pretty sure his math was right. At least in regards to 4 TH/SS terminators attacking.

**notabot187**

Regular nob in boyz squad has a very poor chance of hurting a LR. Battle wagon ramming at most cause a S9 impact (+1 tank, av14 +4, moved over 12 +4. needs a 5 to glance. D6 S10 hits. Still need a 4 to glance. On average 3.5 hits. So that is about 2 pens. 33 percent of pens destroy. So .66 chance of destroying the Land raider with the full ram and roller. Not that bad, but not the greatest. That 250 point LR is going to need either a large squad of PKs, 2 battle wagons ramming, or some lucky immobilizing so you auto hit.

Also, when you take a full Nob biker unit with warboss, you don't exactly have any points for regular nobs, large numbers of boyz or really much of anything. That is what happens when you spend around 800 points on one unit.

**dayve110**

I'd say the most over-powered thing in an ork army is nob bikers.
There fast, and can get stuck in pretty much wherever they want, can abuse wound allocation, can have a cover, armour, invun and FNP.
Add to this fact there can be several power klaws a waaagh banner and they are T 4(5) it makes one beastly unit.

However iv'e faced them 3 times and they didn't do anything important, but i play Eldar...

First time: drop off multiple sepent units...
1) Fire dragons and EML open up to ID some nobs
2) A few destructors open up to score some wounds, followed by a bladestorm and and SC/SL fire i can bring to bear to wear them down to almost nothing.
Second time: See above
Thrid time: Wraithlords. Orky shooting doesn't bring down the lords, bikers charge the Dires near my lords and crush them... 2 lords move up, 4 flamer templates later they charge in with wraithswords. One assasinates the Warboss, the other goes to work on the unit. Wraithlords just about win from combat res, orks run away and a Falcon follows them off the board.

Another unit to consider would be burna boyz ina battle wagon with KFF mek.
The battlewagon can get to where you need to be and 15 flamer templates WILL kill any unit of infantry except maybe wraithguard or plauge marines.

**vikings vs mafia**

notabot187 wrote:
I'm not sure this one works, I've been told it does, but not overly sure. Zogwart has a piece of war gear that gives him d6 poisoned attacks that wound on a 2+. A weird boy in CC that rolls for a shooting attack instead makes his attacks count as power weapons IIRC. Does Zogwarts viper attacks benefit from this? I can't think of any good reason why not. Food for thought. A model with 3 S4 PW attacks (on the charge) + d6 wounds on 2s PW attacks...

This is brutal when it works, but extremely risky. It can only happen on one of your own turns if the weirdboy is locked in CC during the shooting phase. That means he MUST survive at least one combat round prior to your turn, sometimes two. You can increase your chances by stuffing him into the middle of a clump of boyz so that it takes him a few pile-ins to reach close combat. That's the only legal way to keep an HQ out of CC, because if he has a chance to become engaged, he must.

**whitedragon**

notabot187 wrote:
12 regular attacks. 9 big choppa attacks. So 21 attacks. 2/3 hit. so 9 regular, and 6 huge choppa. 4.5 regular wounds. 4 Huge choppa wounds. So just over one TH/SH dead before it attacks.

Actually, Huge Choppas are +2 Strength, so 6 hits would be 5 wounds against T4. That's 9.5 wounds as opposed to 8.5, which is a 1.6 dead termies as opposed to 1.41. Also, if you don't take the "Half" wound, it could be either 10 wounds, or 9. So the nobs have a pretty decent chance to kill 2 terminators.

Also, depending on how the terminators charge, a savvy opponent may be able to base the warboss with his "consolidate" move, meaning one of the terminators would have to swing on the warboss.

Now, 10 terminators charging on the other hand, or add a Librarian with Nullzone, and that's all she wrote for the orks.

**TheBloodGod**

+1 to the "concentrate your ork army"

and

+1 to the
No, orks cannot outshoot Imperial Guard, Tau, or other super gunlines. Play a game without an assault phase in existence and see if guard or orks are standing.