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Agreed.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Damn strait!






Seriously though, the 'Cave Drake' (thanks reds8n) is a nice model. I like him. I just... see a better use for their sculptors.

What sculptors?
The line's pretty much the exclusive domain of the Perry Brothers. They like doing the more "realistic" figures, New Line and the Tolkien Estate like the Perry Brothers doing the figures, and Games Workshop gets to keep them on staff and give them low volume work so they can also run their historical miniatures company.
It's win/win/win/win all around.

Kanluwen wrote: Games Workshop gets to keep them [the Perry Brothers] on staff and give them low volume work so they can also run their historical miniatures company.

I like how the "low volume" of the Perry Brothers pretty much equals the output of the rest of the sculpting department...

How often do we really see new releases for Lord of the Rings though?

terribletrygon wrote:A budding modeller could get the cave drake and cast it's head and neck a few times. Then, at last, Dark Elves can have a not so fugly Hydra.

As for the other models; the Perry twins are legends. They never fail to impress with their work on the LOTR range, and nor do the other sculptors involved. Recently, I have started to really appreciate what the range has to offer, especially in plastic kits, since all the infantry platoons in my Word Bearer Zealot army are made from converted Army of the Dead.

I don't really need a Hydra, but now I want to make that conversion...hmmm. Those are are all great sculpts, but the dragon is exceptional. Definitely, going to get that one.

Awesome stuff. Shame about pricing though. Kinda wish Perry could take full control over it. If I could get LotR sets at their War of the Roses quality and price, I would buy a boatload

Every LOTR dragon model that isn't Smaug makes me sad..

Lords of the Wing... yes I think I do remember that, it was a movie right? Kind of popular 10 years back... I think I had an action figure or something... a lot of chatter on the internets how the movie novelization wasn't true to the movie's plot...

SO they're making a game of it now? Funny timing.

Those models are all great. I have personal issues with the existence of goblin shamans in LotR (at least if they actually have any magical powers) but model-wise they're all excellent.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Lords of the Wing... yes I think I do remember that, it was a movie right? Kind of popular 10 years back... I think I had an action figure or something... a lot of chatter on the internets how the movie novelization wasn't true to the movie's plot...

SO they're making a game of it now? Funny timing.

Heh. I just mentioned your Black Library thread about the novelization the other day.

I wish I had the time and dedication to get into another game system. I think most of the range and all of these new models are gorgeous.

Just a shame that the models are to a different scale to WHFB and 40K and that the rules are a rapid departure (haven't done a LotR demo in ages, so correct me if I'm mistaken.) from what I've been playing for the past 15+ years. Otherwise I'd be all over it. I love the lore, imagery, all of Tolkiens books) and the New Line movies but it just doesn't pull me in. 40k and WHFB just take up too much of my hobby time. Plus my feeble mind can barely learn the rules to both those systems in a timely manner.

I'd personally like them to take the resources(however small) from the LotR projects and actually give the damn near extinct Specialists games a jolt of life. Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Mordheim etc could do with some Space Hulk-type loving.

Kanluwen wrote:It's win/win/win/win all around.

Of course you see all GW decisions as win/win, but look at this realistically for a second Kan:

It's not about stopping the LOTR range, it's about seeing what the Perry's could do if they came back to Fantasy and 40K. If the Perry's had done the new Beastman range, would we have the Flipper-Feet Muscle Freak Minotaurs or the Pumgagore? Probably not.

If they like doing the LOTR stuff and it acts as a way for them to keep doing their own models, then fine, but surely you can see the benefit of them dipping their feet into the other two ranges every now and again.

Father Gabe wrote:Wow. GW has finally made a dragon that looks good. No more giant nosed dragons or silly "s" shaped ones. I might have to pick that up as a mount for my chaos lord.

Not GW. The Perry Brothers. The Perry Brothers do all the LOTR stuff. That dragon does look cool. I might get one.

Drake is a very nice sculpt.

Perhaps they'll make an Ancalagon the Black one day...

How long are they going to be able to put out new models for? I am surprised it has stayed this long.

shanewils wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat450002a&rootCatGameStyle=lotr

Shanewils, than you very much for the heads up.

For the haters, keep playing your baby games for babies. Dont like that comment then stop being so fething divisive. You should be thanking every LotR player out there for keeping GW in the black enough to produce your pretty plastic kits for 40K and WHFB.

Sorry for the defensive stance, but like Osbad I get tired of the trolling for the sake of being 'funny'. If your going to make a joke at the expense of the LotR license, at the very least be original.

Perry brother dropped 40K and WHFB long ago in favor of ranges that cater to more mature players. If you want GW to have them back doing 40K or WHFB then blame GW. LotR is done on a voluntary basis, not on a compulsory basis. Meaning Perry's call the shots in what model ranges they sculpt from what I hear (hearsay really). They dont seem very interested anymore in GW's other games.

Back on topic:

From what I can tell, the models going down the list are:
Cave Drake (A nasty beastie that swallows heroes whole, but not so over the top that they are impossible to kill.)



Kings Champion (Dwarf monster class solo type fig. Whats really intriguing about this fig is the two banner bearers flanking him, not sure what these are for other than alternate banners for dwarven units since the Kings champion is a single base unit. The assumption for players of WotR is that it is just a single 25 mm based monster, which makes it the most maneuverable monster in the game. Perhaps these banners are intended to be added to a larger base of 40+mm in size. Hard to say yet. I am keeping mine based on a 25mm base. The banners are going in other units that need them.)



Gundabad Blackshields Command (Shaman, captain and drummer. Interesting to note that the drummer set is two models instead of 2 drummers and a separate drum. Funny how that drum is right on the back of that goblins head. My eyes would be poking out too from the noise if I were in his shoes.)



Gundabad Blackshields (Hard hitting goblin unit with superior armor for goblins. Not sure how well these will sell since every moria player I know including myself uses plastic goblins with shields for their blackshield units. I do know a couple metal snobs that will be over joyed by these though. Johnny Tower will be a happy)



Floi Stonehand, Loremaster of Moria (this makes the last model needed to complete the Dwarfholds in WotR. Presumably, he is the dwarf that was locked in Balins tomb which was clutching the book of Marzibul that Gandalf read. His counsellor ability is pretty nice. Super cheap dwarf hero.)



Overall they are much needed additions to the WotR game. As usual I am sure there will be LotR profiles available in WD for them soon.
Moria still lacks a stone giant though and was hoping that it would have been included. Sad that moria still lies incomplete. So close....

I am glad that the Kings champion is finally released, even though I use dwarven kings for my kings champions. Now I am compelled to buy one simply because GW have included extra banners with the model to use in my other dwarf units. Damn you GW. Making something I didnt really need yet neeed oh so badly now.

Its great to see new releases for the game every 6 months or so. They must not be selling that badly to have new plastic kits as part of the two releases a year for the game. Sorry LotR haters. Deal with it.

kaidsin wrote:How long are they going to be able to put out new models for? I am surprised it has stayed this long.

Oblivious Troll is Oblivious. It's because it makes money.


Sweet Drake BTW.

Tried to stay logged out of Dakka, but here goes:

Not every miniature line has to be a source for your Fantasy/40k conversions or
proxies. The design of the LotR models works for its source material, and you end with
a series of miniatures with its own look and feel. An oddly proportioned Legolas that
emphasizes a misshapen bow would not serve the line and would only serve the needs of
a sub-section of the Fantasy customer base. The people buying LotR miniatures aren't and
weren't supposed to be the existing customers. They're targeting an entirely different
set of people.

We don't know what the Perry Brothers would be sculpting for GW if they
didn't do LotR. Perhaps if the line died tomorrow, they'd stick to historicals. As for
other resources being allocated to 40k/Fantasy, I doubt that GW would take resources
committed to LotR and re-allocate them to their other product lines. They would
simply cut costs and trim those resources from the company.

And I'd understand the anti-LotR sentiment if the models were bad. But aside from
chunky-ish Faramir and other individual models, the entire line is rather remarkable. They've
re-created an entire fictional world of armies at the tabletop scale.

The standouts for me in this particular batch are the Cave Drake (of course) and the
Dwarf standard bearers. The sculpted detail on the shields and standards is quite nice.

malfred wrote:Not every miniature line has to be a source for your Fantasy/40k conversions or
proxies.

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times ing yes.

I've been wanting to comment on this trend for a while, but never wanted to devote a whole thread to it.

malfred wrote:They've re-created an entire fictional world of armies at the tabletop scale.

Not only that, but a world where almost all of the models had to be made to the design created in the movies.

JOHIRA wrote:

malfred wrote:Not every miniature line has to be a source for your Fantasy/40k conversions or
proxies.

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times ing yes.

I've been wanting to comment on this trend for a while, but never wanted to devote a whole thread to it.

Agreed. I'd go so far as to say that it actually does deserve an entire thread dedicated to the very points Malfred raised.

malfred wrote:They would simply cut costs and trim those resources from the company.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying Malf, but my interest is more in what could the Perry's do in 40K, not that the Perry's should be doing 40K. As for the bit I quoted above, I don't see any reason why the LOTR line needs to be exclusive to them (aside from the fact that they enjoy it).

malfred wrote:And I'd understand the anti-LotR sentiment if the models were bad. But aside from
chunky-ish Faramir and other individual models, the entire line is rather remarkable. They've
re-created an entire fictional world of armies at the tabletop scale.

Most people have anti-LOTR sentiment because they see it as a waste of time.

I don't deny that the miniature line is excellent, but look how popular it is here... it isn't! That's the point that people (try to) make.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Of course you see all GW decisions as win/win, but look at this realistically for a second Kan:

It's not about stopping the LOTR range, it's about seeing what the Perry's could do if they came back to Fantasy and 40K. If the Perry's had done the new Beastman range, would we have the Flipper-Feet Muscle Freak Minotaurs or the Pumgagore? Probably not.

If they like doing the LOTR stuff and it acts as a way for them to keep doing their own models, then fine, but surely you can see the benefit of them dipping their feet into the other two ranges every now and again.

How is that any more 'realistic'? Those statements simply reflect is your own prejudices, starting with the implication that anyone who likes the LotR range is automatically a drooling GW fanboy.

The Perry twins' contribution to other miniature ranges hasn't always always been a positive one. Their 2nd Edition Orks were terrible, for instance. They did a lot of Guard models over the years, but the Guard seem to be doing quite nicely without them. And they struggled with things like futuristic weapons. They seem to be more comfortable working with the imagery established by the LotR films, possibly because it suits their historical focus.

For anyone who (a) likes the LotR game and/or the movies, and (b) takes the time to look at the models GW are producing for the LotR line, there is a lot to like - especially if you want a change from the 'heroic' style of the rest of their minis. I don't particularly like any of these new ones, but they've done some great minis - especially the plastic ones.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Most people have anti-LOTR sentiment because they see it as a waste of time.

...look how popular it is here... it isn't! That's the point that people (try to) make.

The point people are trying to make is that they are trolling, pure and simple. If they/you are really trying to make a point about the lack of popularity, then there are far more constructive ways to do so. You don't like the game and wish the perrys would sculpt stuff for 40K. We get it. We got the point years ago in fact. Not liking it isn't the problem. The prejudicial trolling is the problem.
I stopped dissing the game by giving it a fair shake instead of mindlessly declaring it stupid. In all fairness, I played the original LotR rules and they were pretty bad and needed refinement in order to not be broken. That has changed for the better now. I now think that the LotR license is the best thing that GW has done since the company has gone to being publicly traded.

On topic:
Ok. I see what they are trying to do with the kings champion now.


Since there never used to be a model for the monstrous unit, dwarf players were left to their own devices in how they wished to represent the unit. It is now clear GW want this to be on a larger 65mm base. Which is a shame since a dwarf on a 65mm base looks like ass regardless of two banner bearers flanking him. But at least we now have 'proper' parameters for the base size now, even if it is unintuitive.

I am kind of torn. I want to go with the 'official' base size for this model, but I already have two dwarf kings I use for kings champions on 30mm warmachine bases. (all of my monsters use either Warmachine or Fenris Games round lipped bases). I think I will compromise and use a 40mm round lipped base instead and continue on with the plan to use the banners in other units. Not so big as to look ridiculous, but not so small as to be easily hidden/more maneuverable as the smaller base was. Thank goodness this game doesn't have the anal retentive player base who dictate what is 'official' and what isn't. Those kind of bs troll arguments are best left to the auspices of 40K and WHFB.

Hellfury wrote:

shanewils wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat450002a&rootCatGameStyle=lotr

Shanewils, than you very much for the heads up.

For the haters, keep playing your baby games for babies. Dont like that comment then stop being so fething divisive. You should be thanking every LotR player out there for keeping GW in the black enough to produce your pretty plastic kits for 40K and WHFB.

Sorry for the defensive stance, but like Osbad I get tired of the trolling for the sake of being 'funny'. If your going to make a joke at the expense of the LotR license, at the very least be original.

Perry brother dropped 40K and WHFB long ago in favor of ranges that cater to more mature players. If you want GW to have them back doing 40K or WHFB then blame GW. LotR is done on a voluntary basis, not on a compulsory basis. Meaning Perry's call the shots in what model ranges they sculpt from what I hear (hearsay really). They dont seem very interested anymore in GW's other games.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Most people have anti-LOTR sentiment because they see it as a waste of time.

You're talking about 40k players on the tournament-centric minded Dakka Dakka forums.

They are not the whole of the market. Judge the model by its merits as a sculpt and not
whether or not you can head swap it with your Imperial Guardsmen. They aren't designed
for that. Other miniatures companies make alternate head swaps for that purpose. It's fair
to judge those models in that regard. However, when you look at these models, do they
look like they belong in the world of Middle Earth? And, absent other considerations, would
you want to play with and/OR paint those miniatures?

(I say "OR" because gaming isn't the only purpose of a beautiful miniature. )

Hmmmmmmm, that cave drake is a pretty sculpt alright. While I wouldn't get into LotR I did grab the fell beast for a winged Tyrant. Seeing that model makes me want to try and make either a Tervigon or another HT. Yeah the next time I get the funds I may just do that...

Tailgunner wrote:How is that any more 'realistic'? Those statements simply reflect is your own prejudices, starting with the implication that anyone who likes the LotR range is automatically a drooling GW fanboy.

No... that comment was directed at Kan, who is a drooling GW fanboy (well, not a drooling one...) and was in no way meant to be taken in the context of LOTR. So uhh... ease off the flame thrower for a second there Tailgunner.

Tailgunner wrote:The Perry twins' contribution to other miniature ranges hasn't always always been a positive one. Their 2nd Edition Orks were terrible, for instance.

Ok. That's fine. I don't disagree. I will point out though that 2nd Ed was long time ago, and as we've seen from the LOTR range they can make some simply beautiful sculpts. I'm curious as to what they could do for the other ranges GW makes yet for some reason all'a y'all seem to be taking that as a personal judgement of LOTR and the players of LOTR (or anyone who likes LOTR).

Tailgunner wrote:They did a lot of Guard models over the years, but the Guard seem to be doing quite nicely without them. And they struggled with things like futuristic weapons. They seem to be more comfortable working with the imagery established by the LotR films, possibly because it suits their historical focus.

And, once again, that's fine, but I'm interested to see what they could do. Where's the harm in that?

Tailgunner wrote:For anyone who (a) likes the LotR game and/or the movies, and (b) takes the time to look at the models GW are producing for the LotR line, there is a lot to like - especially if you want a change from the 'heroic' style of the rest of their minis. I don't particularly like any of these new ones, but they've done some great minis - especially the plastic ones.

And at no point have I said they've been bad models. There have been some bad models, yes, but that's true of every range, but I'm not at all attempting to say that LOTR models are bad. I have no interest in them, but that's not the same thing as saying they're bad.

malfred wrote:They are not the whole of the market. Judge the model by its merits as a sculpt and not
whether or not you can head swap it with your Imperial Guardsmen. They aren't designed
for that. Other miniatures companies make alternate head swaps for that purpose. It's fair
to judge those models in that regard. However, when you look at these models, do they
look like they belong in the world of Middle Earth? And, absent other considerations, would
you want to play with and/OR paint those miniatures?

And at no point did I say that these models were useless (or useful) for head swaps and conversions, so please take your little straw men elsewhere Malf.

I am interested - and I'll say it again because this is obviously not getting across - in what the Perry's could do for the other two ranges now. I'm not making judgements about the LOTR miniature line as it stands (the only judgement I make is whether or not it should even exist in the first place) and I'm not making judgments on the quality of the LOTR miniature line either (it obviously is high quality).

I use the examples of the Minotaurs and the Razorgores as they are two horrifically bad sculpts and I wonder if the two people responsible for so many good sculpts could have done a better job of it or if there were any of the other sculptors (like Jes) who might want to do things in the LOTR range.

Erm...I'm fairly sure that the Perry Twins have done some Fantasy stuff relatively recently?

Don't quote me on that. I rarely bother noting who sculpted what. But I'm still fairly sure!

It doesn't matter if the Perrys were available to do 40k/FB models.
They haven't done non-human stuff for those lines for a long time.
The last stuff for the main lines they did were Bretonnians, some Empire, and long ago some IG.

By all appearances, they like to stick with historical models with planty of reference material available.
Hence the production for WotR/LotR.

They have their own company to worry about as well.
A War of the Roses plastics line has been started in addition to their existing plastic Napoleonics, U.S. Civil War, and various metal lines.
So if they aren't working on WotR stuff, I doubt they would have anything to do with GW.

You can wonder all you want, but it will never be more than hypothetical.