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im a fan of trukks myself. everytime ive used them, i find they dont get wrecked untill im on the enemy. if they get shot up. then ramshackle allows me to get even closer (most times) and it prevents boys inside getting smushed. (most times) since they are less expensive and faster then a battlewagon, you can get to grips faster, for less cost. eg: 2x trukks with rpg, riggers, rams and plates = 140 carrys 24 boys. move 19" turn 1, 13" turn 2, +2' disembark, fleet/wagghh roll avg 4, +6" charge. you just covered 44+" on the table in 2 turns, wereas the BW would have trouble even meeting half that. yea they are open topped and armor 10, but its one of few transports that can fix itself, and cheap enough to bring lots of if you want. batlewagons are slow, dont have great side or rear armors, open topped, and youll probally loose more boys if its wrecked. if i loose half my 12 man squad no biggie cause more where that came from, but loosing a good chunk of a 20 man mob is painful. and since the BW is slower, more turns for enemys to shoot it and do just that. for transport dutys i like my trukks.

Trukkz are the best transport in the game. With super fast speed, the ramshackle rule, and an open top, you can go from 0 to krump in one turn! They are essential to a speed freak army, so not so helpful in a green tide (a squad of 12 opposed to a squad of 30). If you're feeling bold, field three or four with a Big Mek in one rocking a Kustom Force Field, it will give all the lightly armored trukks a 4+ cover as long as they're within 6". We got us a convoy!

Tabletoptitan wrote:Trukkz are the best transport in the game. With super fast speed, the ramshackle rule, and an open top, you can go from 0 to krump in one turn! They are essential to a speed freak army, so not so helpful in a green tide (a squad of 12 opposed to a squad of 30). If you're feeling bold, field three or four with a Big Mek in one rocking a Kustom Force Field, it will give all the lightly armored trukks a 4+ cover as long as they're within 6". We got us a convoy!

So a vehicle that blows up when bolters are fired at it, scatters in random directions, and costs the same a rhino (and BA ones move at the same speed) is the best transport in the game? Fan boy much? Its one redeeming feature (open top) is also one of its biggest liabilities... +1 on the damage chart sucks when you get glanced by bolters and pend by tau fire warriors. Cover saves don't matter much when you are taking high volume of fire, and only one shot getting through can kill you. also, since it usually explodes when it is destroyed (2/3s of the time) you don't get a nice piece of terrain, you get a crater... You also end up losing around 1/3 of the squad on average since orks have terrible saves. 1/3 of a squad lost in trukk boyz means you are no longer fearless. Then you have to take a pinning test...

notabot187 wrote:So a vehicle that blows up when bolters are fired at it, scatters in random directions, and costs the same a rhino (and BA ones move at the same speed) is the best transport in the game? Fan boy much? Its one redeeming feature (open top) is also one of its biggest liabilities... +1 on the damage chart sucks when you get glanced by bolters and pend by tau fire warriors. Cover saves don't matter much when you are taking high volume of fire, and only one shot getting through can kill you. also, since it usually explodes when it is destroyed (2/3s of the time) you don't get a nice piece of terrain, you get a crater... You also end up losing around 1/3 of the squad on average since orks have terrible saves. 1/3 of a squad lost in trukk boyz means you are no longer fearless. Then you have to take a pinning test...

If your getting raped by Bolters and LOL Tau maybe you should play another race, Ork may not be your thing...

General_Chaos wrote:

notabot187 wrote:So a vehicle that blows up when bolters are fired at it, scatters in random directions, and costs the same a rhino (and BA ones move at the same speed) is the best transport in the game? Fan boy much? Its one redeeming feature (open top) is also one of its biggest liabilities... +1 on the damage chart sucks when you get glanced by bolters and pend by tau fire warriors. Cover saves don't matter much when you are taking high volume of fire, and only one shot getting through can kill you. also, since it usually explodes when it is destroyed (2/3s of the time) you don't get a nice piece of terrain, you get a crater... You also end up losing around 1/3 of the squad on average since orks have terrible saves. 1/3 of a squad lost in trukk boyz means you are no longer fearless. Then you have to take a pinning test...

If your getting raped by Bolters and LOL Tau maybe you should play another race, Ork may not be your thing...

Yeah, when his point makes sense and yours doesn't, there's always the ad hominem fallacy to fall back on.

Fanboy more.

General_Chaos wrote:

notabot187 wrote:So a vehicle that blows up when bolters are fired at it, scatters in random directions, and costs the same a rhino (and BA ones move at the same speed) is the best transport in the game? Fan boy much? Its one redeeming feature (open top) is also one of its biggest liabilities... +1 on the damage chart sucks when you get glanced by bolters and pend by tau fire warriors. Cover saves don't matter much when you are taking high volume of fire, and only one shot getting through can kill you. also, since it usually explodes when it is destroyed (2/3s of the time) you don't get a nice piece of terrain, you get a crater... You also end up losing around 1/3 of the squad on average since orks have terrible saves. 1/3 of a squad lost in trukk boyz means you are no longer fearless. Then you have to take a pinning test...

If your getting raped by Bolters and LOL Tau maybe you should play another race, Ork may not be your thing...

Yeah, that is why they in my trunk UNDER my other armies. The whole point of the bolter and fire warrior guns comment was to show how pathetic truks are... and it is a realistic situation, especially if you are going all out on mech, what else are those bolters and fire warriors going to shoot at?

Trukks might not be the best transport, but they work extremely well with the ork style. They're fast, they're cheep, you can jump out of it from anywjere then assault afterwords. So it's not as durable as a rhino, that one extra point of armor isn't that useful against most special/heavy weapons, and space marines can't take a permanent mobile +4 cover save.

On their own, I don't find Trukks all that great. However, when combined with multiple Battlewagons and/or Killa Kanz, then they start to come into their own. With target priority, many of my opponents don't waste time on the Trukk. This allows the Boyz to get into the necessary position, whether assisting in an assault, going after a lone stationary vehicle or setting up to control/contest an objective.

There are also times I'll hold a Trukk in Reserve. It's fast enough to get up with the rest of the army and has the benefit of being able to provide some support to areas which need it.

Granted, Trukks suck as a form of protection. However, don't think of them in a vacuum. They are simply another piece of kit in the Ork toolbag that has its uses on occasion.

TheBloodGod wrote:

Yeah, when his point makes sense and yours doesn't, there's always the ad hominem fallacy to fall back on.

Fanboy more.

PRO-TIP - you should read the entire thread before posting in it

My point is all over this thread, Notabot has been regurgitating his point every time someone says they like trukks, he's not gunna be happy until the entire Mass of Ork players here see things his way.

Trukks are great for Orks if you play the right style. I run 2 w/ my Battlewagons. I ether hide them behind the BW, or hide them on a flank behind some terrain. Your opponent has to respect their assault radius!

I always run w/ Ram, Red Paint and a Plank. I can tear through a building (the one I am hiding behind) and plank a tank or a transport, or assault someone my Lootas have just stranded. Great for objective grabbing too. Empty trukks who have delivered the payload can cause problems. BigShoota behind a transport, ram a unit and make them test morale, contest objectives!

Don't spend time wishing you had a Rhino or a DropPod! You don't! You're an Ork! 'Embrace the Suck' and use those Trukks. Get some roads on those 4x6 boards and go even fasta!!

Some of my trukks are the old GorkaMorka style - totally legal and easy to hide - I have even enlarged mine by 1/3 to make them less cheesy.

Don't forget - some of the results on the 'ramshackle' table are helpful. When you get to drop your assault unit 14" CLOSER to the enemy he will be sorry he shot the trukk.

3 Meganobz (with a couple of kombi-scorchas) in a ram/plank truck can cause lots of mischief. I had my 3 MANZ truck have a total field-day in a Planetsrike game recently.

I can see taking A Trukk+Battlewagon+Bikes list being very effective. Have 2-3 Wagons up front with your KFF Coverage, Trukks behind them. Wagons have Shoota boys inside packed to the brim, and the Trukks have the Nobs. This solves the small squad size problem. Your opponent either won't see the Trukks or won't care about them because he has Battlewagons roaring down on him. Have a second HQ choice like a Biker Warboss with Biker Nobs as another huge distraction and those Trukks won't be being shot. Then once they get close they roar forward and unload Nobs to stomp on stuff.

Or, take so many cheap Trukks that your opponent can't shoot them all, and hide Nob Bikers behind them. Trukks can swarm over stuff, Bikers do most of the actual Killing of nasty stuff. Only real threats would be SW missile spam and the like with MSU so you can kill 4-5 trukks a turn with luck.

I run a list with 3 Wagons and 2 Trukks with a KFF to support them.

Yeah I agree with the "trukks have their uses" viewpoint. You can hide a truck rather easily behind battlewagons if you use a combination of trukks and battlewagons.

Remember just because the battlewagon has FA 14 does not mean you should just consider it an AV 14 vehicle. At least with the GW model, the side profile is rather large and easy to get side shots on.

No only that, but even if you scratch build them and get rid of that defect (which I wouldn't like to see across the table) you still have AV 12 on your sides. Most competitive armies feature solid ways of maneuvering heavy weapons, to allow side shots.

Since BWs are more expensive, you'll have less of them. BWs are also slower than trukks and thus your army is more prone to be out-maneuvered. You can expect opponents to be frequently shooting at side armor.

They both have a place, and a balanced list might feature one or the other, or a combination. Dismissing them outright, however, is depriving yourself of a cheap tool in the ork arsenal.

General_Chaos wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:

Yeah, when his point makes sense and yours doesn't, there's always the ad hominem fallacy to fall back on.

Fanboy more.

PRO-TIP - you should read the entire thread before posting in it

My point is all over this thread, Notabot has been regurgitating his point every time someone says they like trukks, he's not gunna be happy until the entire Mass of Ork players here see things his way.

I like gross generalizations from people who don't know me and pro tips from people playing a game that has no pro league...

If you like truks, it is because you think they look cool, have cool fluff, or you have a cool story about how they one time did that thing to that friend of yours guys. So truks are good in A: modeling, B: story/fluff, and C: battle reports

Last I checked this is the tactics forum.

My point is all over this thread, people, including you, have been fanboying all over how good this on paper and usually on table awful unit is supposedly some sort of amazing transport. Are they good NO. Sometimes you have very little choice in taking them. (points is usually the main factor)

Hell I even take them from time to time. But only on throw away units like 3 meganobs. I just want to run that little beater unit deep as possible, and scare people with it. Because if they know how to handle it, that is all it can do!

However I think we can all agree, that after the Trukk has been disembarked from, it's great to tank shock enemy units and or potentially blow up their face.

The_Savior wrote:However I think we can all agree, that after the Trukk has been disembarked from, it's great to tank shock enemy units and or potentially blow up their face.

You have to pay extra points to tank shock with them sadly, as they are not a tank starting out. I personally don't like spending more points than I have to on such a fragile and single dimension unit.

notabot187 wrote:

The_Savior wrote:However I think we can all agree, that after the Trukk has been disembarked from, it's great to tank shock enemy units and or potentially blow up their face.

You have to pay extra points to tank shock with them sadly, as they are not a tank starting out. I personally don't like spending more points than I have to on such a fragile and single dimension unit.

You mean I can't just put the ram, and run into people?

notabot187 I'm really not sure why you hate trukks so much. You really spend a lot of effort trying to convince people that they suck and have little practical use. The fact is that since they are open topped, fast, and can carry a 4+ cover save around makes them more useful and at least as durable as an average Rhino in almost every reasonable situation. And on top of all that they are cheap, which only adds to their utility.
BTW, on Ghaz's waaaagh, I have 13+2+6+6 = 27" assault range with a trukk. Which means I can be in assault range with 3 turns in most games. That is not something most rhino can do.

The_Savior wrote:

notabot187 wrote:

The_Savior wrote:However I think we can all agree, that after the Trukk has been disembarked from, it's great to tank shock enemy units and or potentially blow up their face.

You have to pay extra points to tank shock with them sadly, as they are not a tank starting out. I personally don't like spending more points than I have to on such a fragile and single dimension unit.

You mean I can't just put the ram, and run into people?

No you can...I think hes just saying you have to pay extra to do it (though it is a pittance) and he doesnt want to pay any extra points on a trukk...I personally never run my trukks without a ram...simply because Ill tank shock w it aftewards...or at least use the reroll through terrain...

The other turkk upgrades? I dont think they are worth it at all!

A Reinforced Ram reminds me of Extra Armor in 3rd edition. It is practically mandatory. Pay the extra points and run right through terrain with very little concern.

Played 2, 2000 point games yesterday with the 3 BW and 1 Trukk setup. Both my opponents spent a lot of time shooting Battlewagons. I was able to use my Trukk w/ Boyz to reinforce any area that need some added bodies. Worked pretty well. With 3 BW full of greenskins, neither opponent wanted to waste their time on the Trukk.

It's not a 'win' unit, but the extra 44 basic attacks and 4 Powerklaw attacks sure did help when needed.

Personally when I play a game, my first target is things I know I can kill easily at range. So I fire at light armor first. Pouring firepower into AV 14 battlewagons with cover saves is similar to shooting at a TMC that has FNP (with your non ap 2 or better) instead of the one that doesn't.

I guess I've just played against people who have similar targeting priorities.

Why does everyone in your play group shoot at the front armor of battlewagons? Most people I know shoot almost exclusively at side armor, or use melta against the front if necessary.

Dracos wrote:Why does everyone in your play group shoot at the front armor of battlewagons? Most people I know shoot almost exclusively at side armor, or use melta against the front if necessary.

The front armor is all that should be exposed to turn 1 shooting. Turn 2, yeah, you can easily get side shots. But turn one it's better shoot at truks, since A: they are easy to kill, and B, they can't hide them completely with normal terrain, even with battlewagons giving them cover.

I usually only run RPJ and the Ram with Trukks, and that's how I get my preferred 160 points of Trukk Boyz.

notabot187 wrote:But turn one it's better shoot at truks

which is why they are awesome!!! as repeated a couple times above it's called target saturation

Do you either go for the trukks?, the battlewagons?, the deff koptas?, the lootas?, the whatever?... there is no correct answer, something is gunna get to you and punch you in the face

General_Chaos wrote:

notabot187 wrote:But turn one it's better shoot at truks

which is why they are awesome!!! as repeated a couple times above it's called target saturation

Do you either go for the trukks?, the battlewagons?, the deff koptas?, the lootas?, the whatever?... there is no correct answer, something is gunna get to you and punch you in the face

What he said...

However, if you're like me you run the Koptas in their faces, have the lootas on a deadly BLOS to rain dakka on them, and have a convoy with a KFF saying what's up?

Choose your shots wisely.

notabot187 wrote:Personally when I play a game, my first target is things I know I can kill easily at range. So I fire at light armor first. Pouring firepower into AV 14 battlewagons with cover saves is similar to shooting at a TMC that has FNP (with your non ap 2 or better) instead of the one that doesn't.

I guess I've just played against people who have similar targeting priorities.

For my army, having my 3 Battlewagons get to the center of the table is what I need to do to control the tempo of the game. If my opponent wanted to shoot at the Trukk (which also got a save, so not quite as easy to kill), that increases the probability for my Battlewagons to do what they are intended. Loosing a single Trukk does very little to diminish the strength of the army. One opponent did get side shots on a Battlewagon, but by that point, I was already in position to multi assault and close down his army.

What if you were to support a big Nob Bike squad (with Wazzdakka for example) with a bunch of truck boys?

That might force people to either leave enough of the trucks alone for them to get stuck in... or let a very potent combat unit into their midst unmolested.

trukks do not suck, they may be fragile and have some naff options but they do not suck.

first off, if you take trukks make sure you have at least a KFF
secondly: dont waste points on them, that 1 str9 hit can be used elseware
thirdly: RPJ is a must, that extra inch can be the decider between in charge range, and not
fourth: take at least 3, with other armour for your oponent to shoot

my list

Warboss:
Cybork body, Power Klaw(suprised?) bosspole
Skorcha(fluffy) Squig, Warbike

Big Mek
KFF, Burna(fluffy) bosspole

3 Kans
rokkits
3 kans
rokkits
def dread
2 rokkits

11 shoota boysz x1, 2x12 shoota boyz
Nob, Klaw, bosspole(in small units essential) rokkit
Trukk x3
RPJ, Boarding plank Rokkit

5 Nob bikers, cybork bodies, painboy, waagh banner, grot orderly(fluffy)

You are putting shoota boyz in truks?

Also, your list has just a single rock unit, and not a particularly hard one to break. A small unit of nob bikers can be handled by most competent lists these days.