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Darkhound, you still need to differentiate between the center of the template and any part of the template.

5+2d6 still struggles to pen AV 11. That extra 20% chance to hit you get because of the template isn't really worth all that much.

7 or less comes up 58% of the time. 0.58 * 0.66 + 0.33 = ~71%

Wait a minuten. You are correct. Still, 71% are pretty good odds. To S5+2d6 pen struggles against AV11, I say: 58% chance to pen, and a further 14% chance to glance are pretty good odds (totaling 72%). Most lower AV tanks are transports, so destroying them isn't often required; just stun or immobilize the tank, which isn't hard with AP1.

I like to run one grif with 2 bassies in a single squadron all with Cammo nets. I try to place the bassies in a corner and completely behind cover. I place the Grif in the cover (top of hill front of hill, what ever) and 6 inches away from the bassies this gives the grif a 3+ cover. This puts the grif out in front as the first firing ord barrage therefore it fires first. The bassies then scatter from the grif's final template location per the rules for Ordinance barrage making them EXTREMLY accurate. I also like to mingle some inf squads or conscript in and around them to slow down any bikes, speeder or bloddy angel drops troops from getting too close too soon.

I also would like to point out that the medusa is tremendous. It can move six and fire the big gun or move twelve to some where quick, the range is better than a Demolisher and if you give it an ECC it is 15 point cheaper than a Demolisher. It has lighter armor but can reach out and touch, with conviction and can get to cover in a hurry if it needs to. Through in a cammo net and good use of screening chimera and you get a +3 cover save to boot...

Yeah I am planning on running triple Medusa's for my next game, just to try them out. Bastion Breacher's seem cool but I don't think I would bother with 'em. I would rather just have regular Ordnance penetration with the large blast. IMO leave the ap1 to the Melta's.

Maj.Lee Scrude wrote:I like to run one grif with 2 bassies in a single squadron all with Cammo nets. I try to place the bassies in a corner and completely behind cover. I place the Grif in the cover (top of hill front of hill, what ever) and 6 inches away from the bassies this gives the grif a 3+ cover. This puts the grif out in front as the first firing ord barrage therefore it fires first. The bassies then scatter from the grif's final template location per the rules for Ordinance barrage making them EXTREMLY accurate. I also like to mingle some inf squads or conscript in and around them to slow down any bikes, speeder or bloddy angel drops troops from getting too close too soon.

I also would like to point out that the medusa is tremendous. It can move six and fire the big gun or move twelve to some where quick, the range is better than a Demolisher and if you give it an ECC it is 15 point cheaper than a Demolisher. It has lighter armor but can reach out and touch, with conviction and can get to cover in a hurry if it needs to. Through in a cammo net and good use of screening chimera and you get a +3 cover save to boot...

That's not legal. Squadroned vehicles have to stay within 4" of each other. and that gives you a small 12" window before one or the other is out of range(Bassy min. 36", Griffon max. 48").


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Forgot, if only the Griffon is in cover and the 2 Bassys aren't, no cover save.

Don't mix Griffons with anything. They are too limited in their fire capabiliteis to be mixed with direct fire weapons. They're cheap for a reason. I am glad they reintroduced the tank to 5th ED as it is very good at low point levels.

I don't think I see the point in mixing anything, really. If you're going to use a squad, they should be all the same. Otherwise you're mixing up your viable targets.

The only thing I could even possibly see would be putting a Griffon with two Colossi. They have the same strength and intended targets, so theoretically the Griffon could serve as a ranging shot.

I still wouldn't do it, personally.

responding on some comments posted earlier,

where does it say in the codex that bassie's and medusa can fire on the move, if I don't offend?

It says it in the rulebook, not the codex.

Really, you should be showing us what page it says you CAN'T move and shoot them.

Thank you,

sorry, still haven't bought the 5th ed. rulebook yet

Oh, well do that. Seriously.

Actually, basilisks could still move and fire directly in 4th ed as well...

I use 1 griffon and 2 meducas great combo always kills something just make sure to have the griffon fire first.

DeJolly wrote:I use 1 griffon and 2 meducas great combo always kills something just make sure to have the griffon fire first.

Why? Medusas aren't barrage weapons so they don't get the multiple barrage rule.

I guess I'm lucky in that my usual opponents run either Guard or Tau
(though occasionally I face the Emporer's finest), so my pair of Griffons
always have a tempting target on the table.

Having used them for over 18 months, I've found them to be worth their
slot in my Army. I knew before I started using them that they aren't
designed to be game-winning squad-killers, but if you view them as an
attritional weapon, with the occasional 'spectacular' thrown in, then you
can't go far wrong.

Actually, I find all indirect artillery to have a 'nuisance' value and most
opponents will divert units in an attempt to kill them. If you factor this
into the Griffons attrition rate and cosider the cost in points for a sqn of
2 or 3, then I think it becomes quite an attractive package.

Cheers.

Henrythesecond wrote:I guess I'm lucky in that my usual opponents run either Guard or Tau
(though occasionally I face the Emporer's finest), so my pair of Griffons
always have a tempting target on the table.

Having used them for over 18 months, I've found them to be worth their
slot in my Army. I knew before I started using them that they aren't
designed to be game-winning squad-killers, but if you view them as an
attritional weapon, with the occasional 'spectacular' thrown in, then you
can't go far wrong.

Actually, I find all indirect artillery to have a 'nuisance' value and most
opponents will divert units in an attempt to kill them. If you factor this
into the Griffons attrition rate and cosider the cost in points for a sqn of
2 or 3, then I think it becomes quite an attractive package.

Cheers.

I prefer to annoy my opponent with Hydras instead. i just can't bring myself to drop any HS slot for the Griffons.

Also, just to note, while griffons may inspire your opponents to annoyance, things like the basilisk can inspire your opponents to fear. Yes, they're more expensive, but you definitely get what you pay for.

The value of each type of IG artillery also varies according to the point limit for your army list.

Griffons may not be highly desirable in a 2000 point list but in a 1500 point list a pair of them isn't bad. I like them even more since Dark Eldar became all the rage. Large, long AV10 open-topped transports with T3 crunchies inside make my Griffons more useful.

At higher point values, I tend to agree that other IG artillery types take precedence, particulary with only three heavy FOC slots and a desire to avoid use of squadrons.

I love artillery and their ability to IF. I have used the manticore and basilisk a lot, and together with the LR and hydra(s) form the core choices for my HS. I have also used Griffons, and also work well with that reroll. In future games I will also try out the collossus.

Competitively though the manticore and bassie are my staples. The griffon I have also used competitively at lower point games (1500 and below).

The medusa has its uses, but I get artillery for the Indirect Fire capability.


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DeJolly wrote:I use 1 griffon and 2 meducas great combo always kills something just make sure to have the griffon fire first.

tsk tsk read the rules first as medusas can't fire indirect..maybe you have confused it with something else

My heavy support selection consists of three magnetized Russes, three basilisks, and two manticores. I also have a pair of Hydra turrets I'll pop on the basilisk/manticore chassis if I feel like running Hydras.