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I think the charts are fine as they are tbh wouldn't change a thing.
Just need to get some 40k practice in as i don't play reguarly, due to my poor choice army!
hopefully my crimson fists will fair better

yep good luck

hmm I get the impression that there could be too many SM armies in this campaign. I wonder if I should try to get my guard or Thousand Sons up to 2000 points instead of my BT.

since the campagn is a Narrative one, it should not be a problem. However if you want to play any other army nick, go for it, I may be playing my Nids (shock horror) or even try and sort my Ye olde Eldar army to play with

Well I've just thought of one way I can still use my BTs and still field something a little different.

I can bring my Deamonhunters out of retirement and use the allies rules to field them, after all the codex is still legal.

not for much longer lol, come march you will have to use DH properly, No allies

I need the Names or Types of planets, so i can set up the scenarios and terrain rules
Thanks homies

PM'd the names and planet types. Also working on the images.

Draft 1 of planetary rules

Hive World:
Due to the High numbers of Humans on a Hive world, there is a rich pool of Slaves/Biomass/citizens to draw from/eat/...enslave.
The Defending player has may take the following unit as a troop choice.


Slaves/Zombies/Brain leech/Conscripts/Cultists

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
2 2 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+ 3pts per model
10-20 models
Special rules: Infiltrate, "Who cares" this unit is never scoring and never counts as surviving a game and never gives a kill point
Options: 1 in ten models may take the following
Heavy bolter 5
Missile launcher 10
Grenade launcher free

Due to the highly mobile nature of Space marines, they may not take this unit (this is all C:SM lists and includes DA, BA, BT, GK and SW)

Agri world:
Agri worlds are the lynchpin of the imperium, they are vast area's of farm land or Grox plantations:
Due to the large ammount of supplies the agri world gives to the rest of the sector, if it falls it would be devestating.

Playing on an agri world is the same as a standard 40k game, there are no extra rules.
However should the agri world falls to the enemies of the imperium, then all non imperial players are at -100 points for the next game, this represents the starvation caused by the loss of an agriworld

More to follow

Formosa wrote:

Agri world:
Agri worlds are the lynchpin of the imperium, they are vast area's of farm land or Grox plantations:
Due to the large ammount of supplies the agri world gives to the rest of the sector, if it falls it would be devestating.

Playing on an agri world is the same as a standard 40k game, there are no extra rules.
However should the agri world falls to the enemies of the imperium, then all non imperial players are at -100 points for the next game, this represents the starvation caused by the loss of an agriworld

More to follow

Surely you mean Imperial players

Hi All

Apologies It appears i've fallen by the way side a little other the weekend.

Ok my problem with the characters being allowed to use abilities that effect the army without being on the table is that its bias against the guard. The guard to not have any characters who give you any army wide rules, they are all bubbles.

Me and Lorna are working on the planets, unfortuanltey we've been working seperatley so came up with Ideas but I'll study what he's got and try and merge it with my notes.

How many worlds are we after? Lorna had made notes/pics for 6, my original idea was 5 with 6 moons and a orbiting gas refinary. My original thoughts were that each planet would be made up of 2-4 territoreis and each moon would be one. The gas facility was to allow for a small Kill team game if we wanted it.

Lorna wrote:

Formosa wrote:

Agri world:
Agri worlds are the lynchpin of the imperium, they are vast area's of farm land or Grox plantations:
Due to the large ammount of supplies the agri world gives to the rest of the sector, if it falls it would be devestating.

Playing on an agri world is the same as a standard 40k game, there are no extra rules.
However should the agri world falls to the enemies of the imperium, then all non imperial players are at -100 points for the next game, this represents the starvation caused by the loss of an agriworld

More to follow

Surely you mean Imperial players

AAAHHHHHH!!!!
Yep...

this is why its a good idea to post on here

How are we doing lines of advancement? are we going to do a node based system? it seems to make the most sense given that we are doing a system campaign rather than a single planet. I can't see a solar system working too well as normal map campaign.

yep its a nodal system, it allows us to make the story grander than "ork Boss (insert name) of the (insert clan) fought the (insert Imperial army) for the planet of (insert suitably cool name) and (Won/lost/space marine)".

plus like you said why would Every race be present lol

What i'm currenlty thinking is unless you are chaos, imperial, Nid you don't start on a planet.

If your one of the other races your fleet based until you win a territory. I'm thinking within the node system this will allow you to hit any territory you like or we could limit it to territories with starports.

Bascially map I have in my head is similar to the dawn of war, but allows other players to turn and play.

This is all starting to go over my head a bit.

I guess the GK addition to my BTs is off since there's a good chance the new codex could appear half way through the campaign. I've also looked into increasing the size of my Guard and Thousand Sons and unless I get a job in the next couple of weeks I can't afford to do those. So it looks like I'm stuck with adding a couple of extra things to my current BT list.

Nick

To be honest I think we are going have to be flexible with the rules. If we are going to design this like Jason said, so anyone can play, we have allow for people dipping in and out, I have a feeling that the Exp system will only really get used by the core players who intend to take part in every game.

We need to talk this out on thursday, i'll have some of the stuff i've done printed up, so we can show jason.

SpankHammer III wrote:Nick

To be honest I think we are going have to be flexible with the rules. If we are going to design this like Jason said, so anyone can play, we have allow for people dipping in and out, I have a feeling that the Exp system will only really get used by the core players who intend to take part in every game.

Yep I agree, this is why the I kept it in mind when making the Exp rules.

To put it in universe
Troops that started the campagn (us and a few others) are more battle hardened
But fresher troops coming into a warzone are not as experianced, thus do not have certain abilities (this is drop in and out players)

But yep on thursday we can all sit down and hash this out properly, as like Lorna and you (Alex) said we may be pulling in diferent directions.

Push come to shove i can do away with all the Exp rules and really simplify the whole thing into a series of scenarios with the fluff (alex) and Graphics (lorna) and anyone elses input.

I've been having some thoughts (shocking I know) about the Hive Slaves/Zombies/Brain leech/Conscripts/Cultists.

Whilst the stats are ok (aside from the LD that is too high IMO) I think there ought to be a few more changes to the rules, my main concern is with the infiltrate rule. I think instead it ought to be a random rule here's my thoughts about how to improve them:

Slaves/Conscripts/Cultists: 3pts per model

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
2 2 3 3 1 3 1 6 5+

10-20 models

Wargear: Slaves/Conscripts/Cultists carry a wide variety of improvised and conventional weapons for game purposes they are counted as having either Lasguns or Laspistols and Close Combat Weapons.

One member of the unit may be upgraded to a Slavediver/Conscript Sergeant/Cult Leader for an additional 3pts

Slavediver/Conscript Sergeant/Cult Leader:

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
2 2 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+

Additional weapons:

The Slavediver/Conscript Sergeant/Cult Leader may replace his weapon(s) with one of the following:

Bolter + 5pts
Las Pistol and Power Weapon + 15pts
Las Pistol and Power Fist + 25pts

Up to 2 Slaves/Conscripts/Cultists may replace their weapons with:

Flamer: + 5pts
Heavy Stubber + 10pts
Demo Charge + 25pts

Special Rules:

Hive Defenders: Any faction defending a Hive against attack must take at least one unit as part of their force, this represents the desperation of the current rulers to defend their territory.

Unimportant: Units of Slaves/Conscripts/Cultists do not take up any slots on the force organisation chart additionally they are not able to capture objectives.

Unreliable allies: Humans pressed into service against their will are notoriously unreliable and in many cases simply unfit for military service. To represent this each unit must roll on this table to determine what if any abilities they have.

1: No additional special rules

2-3: Marksmen: this particular group are former PDF soldiers, hive gangers etc. To represent their better weapon training their BS is increased to 3

4-5: Natural Killers: this unit shows an unusual affinity towards close combat. To represent this their WS is increased to 3

6: Psychopaths: their experiences have left this group slightly unhinged as a result they throw themselves into the fray no matter the odds. They gain the Rage, Fleet and Preferred Enemy (universal) special rules additionally they are fearless in close combat.

Nick Ellingworth wrote:I've been having some thoughts (shocking I know) about the Hive Slaves/Zombies/Brain leech/Conscripts/Cultists.

Whilst the stats are ok (aside from the LD that is too high IMO) I think there ought to be a few more changes to the rules, my main concern is with the infiltrate rule. I think instead it ought to be a random rule here's my thoughts about how to improve them:

Slaves/Conscripts/Cultists: 3pts per model

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
2 2 3 3 1 3 1 6 5+

10-20 models

this is good

Wargear: Slaves/Conscripts/Cultists carry a wide variety of improvised and conventional weapons for game purposes they are counted as having either Lasguns or Laspistols and Close Combat Weapons.

for 2 CC weapons it needs to be at least 4pts per model


One member of the unit may be upgraded to a Slavediver/Conscript Sergeant/Cult Leader for an additional 3pts

Slavediver/Conscript Sergeant/Cult Leader:

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
2 2 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+

Additional weapons:

The Slavediver/Conscript Sergeant/Cult Leader may replace his weapon(s) with one of the following:

Bolter + 5pts
Las Pistol and Power Weapon + 15pts
Las Pistol and Power Fist + 25pts

i have to say no to this nick, the problem is fluff wise and rules wise.
Fluff: why would you equip slaves/imp citizens with better equipment than you main troops.
Rules: this unit is better than a standard guard sqaud, but less points


Up to 2 Slaves/Conscripts/Cultists may replace their weapons with:

Flamer: + 5pts
Heavy Stubber + 10pts
Demo Charge + 25pts

1 Demo charge rest is good.

Special Rules:

Hive Defenders: Any faction defending a Hive against attack must take at least one unit as part of their force, this represents the desperation of the current rulers to defend their territory.

Unimportant: Units of Slaves/Conscripts/Cultists do not take up any slots on the force organisation chart additionally they are not able to capture objectives. Or confer kill points


Unreliable allies: Humans pressed into service against their will are notoriously unreliable and in many cases simply unfit for military service. To represent this each unit must roll on this table to determine what if any abilities they have.

1: No additional special rules

2-3: Marksmen: this particular group are former PDF soldiers, hive gangers etc. To represent their better weapon training their BS is increased to 3

4-5: Natural Killers: this unit shows an unusual affinity towards close combat. To represent this their WS is increased to 3

6: Psychopaths: their experiences have left this group slightly unhinged as a result they throw themselves into the fray no matter the odds. They gain the Rage, Fleet and Preferred Enemy (universal) special rules additionally they are fearless in close combat.

Thanks for the imput Nick, but i have to say this unit is too good for the low points cost, take away the character upgrade and its gravy

Ah but the character upgrade is very fluffy. There's no way a group of slaves/conscripts/whatevers would go into combat without someone leading them and that someone is likely to be well equipped.

The points cost could certainly do with some tweaking though. Maybe +5pts if the upgrade remains optional or +10pts if it's mandatory.

EDIT:

Just had another thought:

Unwilling combatant:

Every turn the squad must take a leadership test, if it is failed the unit is unable to act this turn. If a Slavediver/Conscript Sergeant/Cult Leader is present in the squad he may choose to execute one member of the squad, if he does this roll a D6 on a 2-5 the squad my move/shoot/assault as normal, on a 1 the rest of the unit turns on the Slavediver/Conscript Sergeant/Cult Leader he immediately takes D6 strength 3 WS 2 hits.

I like it Nick

But I do think it a bit early fo this kind of stuff. I think we need to keep it really simple in order to sell it to Jason

they are slaves, enimatic leader slaves are dead slaves

Conscripts, good ones are guardsman etc.

point is i dont want it too powerfull or people will try to spam these as troop choices lol


add this rule

does not count as forces mandatory troop choices

I've already stated that they don't take up any slots on the FOC, so they can't be mandatory troops choices. They're a bit like summoned demons in the CSM codex.

but yep as alex said, i will write all this down then we can all chat on thursday, in future if we want a more complicated campagn we can refer to this


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nick Ellingworth wrote:I've already stated that they don't take up any slots on the FOC, so they can't be mandatory troops choices. They're a bit like summoned demons in the CSM codex.

DOH!!

I knew i should have gone to bed after the superbowl.

well done Formosa, I should have prints of the first couple of planets for you guys on thursday, as well as the poster.

I look forward to seeing them. BTW my Firestorm stuff arrived today.

I have the three *finished planets.

and WOOOOOO, firestorm.

My main worries at the moment are cantered around the campaign map level part of the game.

Maps, fluff and unit progression rules are all very well but I don't think we've sorted out the campaign level in enough details to even start worry about that stuff.

Ok its a given that you fight over territories and that if you win you get the territory and any bonus that infers, but how to the territories/campaign work?

Is each territory going to be a fixed points scenario?
or are we going to allow people to amass troops and thus allow for some really one sided fights? like the total war series of games
If they are fixed how fixed are we talking? e.g. points or game type can change but not both
Are fights going to consist of multiple gamers or one on one?
and if we allow multiple gamers are we going to allow uneven fights?
How many territories do we need?
Are we going to start with each side having a territory?

I think until we have this kind of stuff sorted there is no point naming planets, deciding on types of planet or even writing rules for them. We need to get the basic game mechanics down. I assume we will have some kind of turned based system including a movement and and attack phase but we need to get this stuff down. Are we going to give each side a staring territory? Because that won't work with noobs.

I like the idea of the conscripts but I can't help but think given the nature of the campaign we are being made to run it might be a better idea to keep the bonus's to thing like additional points, universal rules and extra attack phase on the campaign map.

I think we need to keep this really simple; the kind of thing I imagine Jason wanting to see would be a bunch of fixed scenarios that involve the expansions. However I'm against using the expansion because they require players on both sides to do planning to be played properly and that won't happen with new players coming and going.

Boys lets face it the biggest problems we've got are that in all likeliness this will go the way of many gamers, as in 29 people say they'll play in ends up with only six of us with the occasional guest apperance, and that we have to get Jason to sign off on it. So we have to make it as casual player friendly as possible and the more complicated we make the less it will work.

Sorry to rant but to be honest when we first came up with the idea I was really hping to do a strong narrative campaign with armies burning a trail across a system of our own creation. When it was just going to be just us I thought it would be good to do a Total war style game allowing for some really one sided slaughters and adding tactics on larger scale. However given that this is now meant to be an open campaign I don't think it will work.

Good points there mate, I can certainly imagine Jason wanting to see a series of fixed scenarios between different factions the results of which determine the outcome, rather than something a little more free form.

If a series of fixed scenarios is what's required we can probably plunder the battlemissions, city fight and other expansion books for ideas.