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I'll recant about the skill requirements. Like you said, top players can make anything perform once they learn effective positioning and maneuvers.

When I said dramatically, I was comparing them to top-tier Imperial Guard (horde or mech), Wolves, BA, and DA. Tau have all the makings of a functional army, and a top player can make that perform by applying the basics. No top tier player is going to say they'd rather take Tau to a tournament, because they are just that: functional. It is impossible for Tau to pack the breadth of fire, dogged resilience, and brutal close combat performance in a single package like all the other top tier codicies.

What Tau do well is precise damage with just enough mobility to (theoretically) dance out of melee range. In practice, they can't spread their fire enough to dampen the enemy's response. This all comes back to the biggest issue with the codex: their Troop slots are all ineffective fighting units, making the entire category a point sink, but ironically the most effective place to pick up anti-infantry. By taking more Fire Warriors, Kroot, and Devilfish, you should have freed up your other slots for more anti-tank, except that you've spent so many points on Troops you only come out even.

The book is almost amazing from a design stand-point; you can move fire support across any of the slots, allowing for tremendous variations in army compositions without anything ever feeling out of place. It is a hard army to go wrong with once you've got the hang of the game. If you give me a list of units I have to take, but let me tailor the specific equipment, I can build you a functional Tau list with nearly anything you give me. Its that damned conundrum of a Troop slot that drives me nuts.

I was a staunch 12 Man FW squad fan-boi for a long time until 5th Ed and then quickly moved in to putting 6 man teams in DF with DP (The best 5 point upgrade ever - that will go up to at least 20 points in the new codex surely?) - I've found DF to be quite resilient at medium-long range and can often just lure people in to taking shots at them when really they should be going after Crisis and Broadside teams doing the serious damage.

All in all, some good tips on this thread :-)

I agree with you Darkhound. Troops are Tau's big weakness. Expensive.

I did win a 1k pts game against IG last night though which was encouraging. It was mainly due to the fact he placed his objective near some woods which made my kroot nigh on invulnerable. I ended up destroying the rest of his army with relative ease(my commander toting up 2 armour and 5 infantry kills!) but luck was on my side quite a bit.

I guess i was just irritated with losing to MEQ drop pods all the time. Now ive learnt to BUBBLEWRAP!!!

Actually, why doesnt anyone complain of the Disruption Pod being broken? 5 points for a permanent obscure ? I ll take it anytime.

I wouldn't say it's a waste of time.... Just... Not the best way to spend your money

Striderx the disruption pod isnt a permanent its over 12 inches. So this doesnt safeguard against drop podding dreds or melta guns. I agree it should be close to 20 points though!

And samus, its now clear to me it wasnt a waste of time since I am just innexperienced with the army. Im usually pretty sharp tactically, so I just need to make sure I learn to play and have some fun while doing it!

striderx wrote:Actually, why doesnt anyone complain of the Disruption Pod being broken? 5 points for a permanent obscure ? I ll take it anytime.

It is broken, and there was quite a bit of whining about it early 5th edition, until it was realized that the rules changes made other upgrade (Decoy launchers) nearly useless. Tau has so much 'unbroken' wargear and units, that it seems petty to complain about Disruption Pod.

Exactly. Especially since the DF itself is overpriced in comparison to current transport costs, so even if the DP is only 5pts, the whole vehicle is priced as if the DP was probably more like 20-25.

Unlike most races, the Tau battleforce is actually worth getting and provides a playable force directly out of the box.

This set contains
1 xv-8 Battlesuit
3 Stealth Suits
12 Fire Warriors
12 Kroot
1 Devilfish
90$

I would then add
2 xv-8 suits
1 xv-8 Commander
1 Hammerhead
1 Devilfish
145$

This addition will make a competitive 1000 pt list or a stretched out 1500 list

1 Hammerhead
3 Broadsides
3 Crisis Suits
205$

This will make a competitive 1500 list in the basic semi mech build that Tau must run to be effective in this edition

To get to your magic 1750, Its really up to you. This is the area where stuff begins to diverge from the "needs" to the "wants" I would suggest one of the following items

3 Piranhas 75$

8(9) Pathfinders 45$

10 Kroots hounds and 16 Carnivores 95$

3 Crisis Suits 60$

Tau are certainly not the easiest army to start with. They are very unforgiving and require a lot of games to get used to. Speaking from experience, it takes about 20 games to find your feet and more after that to become really proficient. Tau require constant attention to detail because the smallest mistakes in movement or target priority can be fatal. Websites like dakka as well as Advanced Tau Tactica, and Yes The Truth Hurts can get you up to speed and should be consulted early and often. This is not meant to be discouraging, far from it. However, when you do start Tau, realize what you are getting into.

A little more about playing Tau at this level.

Once you reach this level and above, the great Pathfinder v No Pathfinder debate starts. Pathfinders are increadibly useful units, that can cover a number of flaws in the Tau list. IMO however, I can't justify the 200+ points it costs to field a full Pathfinder squad and their Warfish until I reach 2000 pts. YMMV and certainly others will tell you that they are a mandatory unit and they may not be wrong. My advice is to try them for yourself.

Kroot are another major bone of contention with Tau players. Many people use them as "bubblewrap" to protect high point crisis and broadside teams. Other people despise them and will never field them. The two major unit sizes are the basic 10 carnivores and the 5 hound 10-12 carnivore groupings. The first is a ultra basic cannon fodder troop. Because I can't ever seem to find the 60$ for kroot hounds, this is my preferred size. I always outflank with them to keep them alive. In this role, they serve to chew up small board hugging squads and vehicles. If used in this role remember one rule, Double Tap Marines, never assault them. Marines will slaughter your carnivores before they can swing and you will do less damage overall. This initiative deficiency is why you have hounds. With hounds, you can assault marines, just remember to put the wounds from the marines on the hounds, so your carnivores survive to swing. The shaper and the armor upgrade are worthless. For the cost, you can get more carnivores and do more damage.

Fire Warriors have so much potential, but often fall short of what you expect of them. Always set you expectations low for FW, any damage they do is a bonus. Their main duty is to ride in their transport and make it scoring. Sure they can pop out and rapid fire something (Land speeders come to mind) but their main role is to sit pretty. You will never need more than 12 FW. The only time I have needed more is for kill team. (where they are awesome) Put a squad of 6 in a devilfish and drive them around. I have two in my lists. That said, a FW squad sitting innocuously in cover in a corner can cover a surprising amount of the table with strength 5 shots. Against light vehicles like Land speeders and vypers this is a potent threat and one you opponent will often overlook.

Devilfish are the unit that keep Tau competitive in 5th edition. These should always have a Disruption pod. 5 points for a 4 up cover yes please. I always make my Devilfish a Warfish by addition a targeting array, multi tracker and Smart missile system. This makes up for the lack of shooting from the FW team inside. It also replaces the drones that count as an extra kill point. It does add about 40 points onto the cost of an already expensive transport however, so YMMV

Steath Suits are just not very good unfortunatly. They are simply too expensive and take an elite slot away from crisis teams. If they were cheaper or could take more special weapons they would be more useful. Right now they are an over priced torrent of fire unit that lacks definition.

Crisis suits are the backbone of most any tau army and are a topic of much contention between Tau players. There are many opinions on the subject, many of which have merit. I will present mine here and hopefully others (if Focusedfire hasn't ninja'd me already ) will chime in with their ideas so you can get a broader picture. IMO, and I stress, IMO anything that gets in the way of providing the maximum number of shots is a bad thing. I would prefer to the maximum number of crisis suits on the table, then to have fewer, more efficient, and to an extent more survivable suits. Call it quantity over quality, but IMO suits aren't tremendously survivable anyway and I would like to get more of them on the table so if I lose a few, I have more to fall back on. A Soviet Army ideal for the Space Commies (ooh the irony) With the philosophy out of the way, lets get to the configurations.

I run 4 (configurations) in my lists

My commander is a Shas'el with a Targeting Array, Missile Pod, Hard Wired Multi-tracker, and Fusion Blaster. (Modified FireForge) This is a multi role suit, who can attach to one of my other squads and support their fire, or can be deep struck to hunt armor with the melta.

I always run at least one, and usually two squads of (Fireknives) This is the most common suit configuration, and is a true multirole suit. Simply a Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, and Multi tracker this suit covers most all of your bases and is a must include in all of my lists. Its an expensive suit (a squad of three runs just shy of 190 pts) but the utility, is invaluable.

My other must include unit is a unit of (Deathrain-F) This suit is designed to be cheap, but it does its job reliably and cover's some bases that I find lacking in my lists. With a Twin Linked Missile Pod and a Flamer, this squad will drop a chimera or a rhino every turn or can reliable put wounds on high toughness creatures and HQ's. If necessary, it can close and use the flamers for anti-horde. Note this configuration has no multi tracker, so its an either/or situation with the weapons.

The last configuration is a response to the large numbers of FNP Blood angels and Loganwing armies I have started to see much more regularly. The (Sunforge) is a major sacrifice to the ideal of ignoring armor and FNP. Using a Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, and a Multi tracker this unit will utterly decimate most units not in cover. However, the extremely short range makes this a one way mission if you can't totally wipe the squad in question. Costing equal to the Fireknives, its an expensive suicide unit, but its very effective vs low model count elite armies. It also smokes Carnifexes. This squad more than any other benefits from markerlight support to make sure that those shots count.

Vespids are unfortunately made of fail. While its occasionally satisfying to drop the bug bomb on the local marine player, they are far too fragile and expensive to be used competitively.

Piranhas are a matter of personal taste. I really enjoy taking them, and I find they provide a useful function for me. However, they do give up a lot of kill points if they aren't squadroned. I always field mine with a Fusion Blaster, a Targeting Array, and a Disruption Pod. This provides maximum utility, but makes them a little expensive. Their use it very situational, but boils down to either Tank hunting or being a speed bump. The tank hunter is self explanatory. Being a speed bumb means turbo boosting directly in front of a fast moving assault unit to slow them down or directly in the path of a vehicle to force them to move around the piranha (or risk dangerous going through the piranha's wreckage ) This "Stiff arm" can buy you critical early turns where Tau can win or lose the game. ( a note about the drones, don't forget the piranha is a open topped vehicle and the drones can assault out of it. Use this to contest late objective or to keep a fleeing squad from regrouping. Also despite their crappy BS, the drones can occasionally pop rear armor with S5 Shots, so sometimes its worth ejecting them to go for the twofer when behind the enemy. Their shots are also pinning FWIW)

Sniper Drones have never been a favorite of mine. This is simply a recognition that field sniper drones means less railguns. In lower point games (1000 or less or in team tournaments) they can be very effective. The combination of dropping marines on two's w/ no armor save and the BS4 networked markerlights are nice and they would be used much more if they occupied a different FOC slot, but they don't and I can't recommend them. Slipping a rail rifle or two into your pathfinder squad is a better way to get rail rifles onto the battlefield.

Skyrays are also something that is probably in the wrong FOC. The combination of limited ammuntion and weak (and expensive) secondary armament makes it a no go for me. Great in Apoc though.

Broadsides are simple the final answer in Anti-anything really. If its a single target that resides on the table and can be seen, broadsides can kill it in at most two turns. Broadsides are pretty simple to deploy. Always give them the unfortunately named Advanced Stabilization system, so they have limited mobility. (and so Dawn of War doesn't screw you for a turn) Also near mandatory are two shield drones. These provide the protection from all of the scary weapons that will come their way. Broadsides nearly always should find a elevated position (cover is really nice too) and simple dominate the battlefield. I always give the team leader a target lock so that he can independently target from the squad. (Always check to see how your gaming group deals with this piece of wargear, which rides the ragged edge of legality due to an outdated codex) Don't forget that despite their tank killing prowess, that Broadsides do have a Smart Missile System as well which is much more effective vs hordes than turning one or two termagaunts into component atoms with the railguns. Broadsides should always have priority for markerlights. Reducing cover against the railguns is invaluable.

Hammerheads are the opposite side of the coin, trading concentrated firepower for mobility and the almighty large blast template. Never forget that Hammerhead have an integrated targeting array and are always BS4. Hammerhead should ALWAYS have a Disruption pod and should most of the time have a multi tracker so that you can fire like a fast vehicle. Target locks are also nice so that you can shoot two separate targets. I find that I primarily use the large blast with the hammerhead, not that the hammerhead isn't a capable anti tank platform, I just find that I have an overwhelming tendancy to roll ones and twos when I really need them. The blast template is the really the only one the tau have available, so I really try to let the broadsides and crisis suits deal with the tanks and use the Hammerhead for anti infantry.

I find that for the point levels that you are talking about, that a 1 to 2 Broadside to Hammerhead ratio is ideal. Its really fun to "bring the rain" with multiple Broadside teams, but you risk being too static to survive.


I will copy in another post on playstyle after this but I want to mention one thing.

Target priority is where Tau win and lose the game. Certain things must die for tau to have a chance. Wasted shots are the worst sin a tau player can commit.(followed closely by being so excited about the shooting phase that you skip the movement phase) To prevent wasted shots, carefully consider line of fire to the targets and what abilities your units have (anti tank, anti MEQ, anti horde) and then fire the units with the most restricted target selection first, so that you have redundancy if a units fails to destroy a target.

ie My hammerhead can only shoot the Rhino, so I will shoot it first. Followed by the Deathrain team who can target the rhino if the hammerhead misses or take out the land speeder in the open. Finally, the Broadsides will target, the Land Raider if everything has been destroyed or cover one of the other teams surviving targets. This way you never waste shots because you always have targets of opportunity available. Enemy mobility should always be targeted first. Tau can outshoot almost anyone from across the board.

Final Thoughts
Always buy the Skyray box, it contains all parts for any tau tank
Keep your troops cheap
Deploy carefully

Have Fun with Tau

Here's another post about playstyle that may be helpful

The topic was dealing with Fast assaulting armies which are a particular problem for tau

Its one of those playstyle questions that people get hung up on.
Some people prefer to castle up in a corner, destroy enemy mobility with long range fire and suicide deepstrikers and then hope they can mow them down before they can get into assault. Others prefer to play a highly mobile game preventing an assaulting army from gaining "mass" by spreading out into smaller units and constantly moving into open space. Still others use ablative throw-away or "bubble wrap" units to block assault lanes and clog the path with bodies while spraying and praying for the win. Finally using a fluid transition from one these states to another is possible and often used as well.

Tau players often get caught up in "holding that objective" They take it on turn 2 with their scorefish and it never leaves get blown up and the fw die. If they had kept it on the move behind their hammerheads and crisis teams and taken the objective at the last minute it will often live.

Another trap that I often see tau players in is the idea that things need to be close together to support each other. Using the longest range in the game tau can support each other from across the board. By spreading out and preventing multi assaults players will live much longer.

Finally when deploying I like to spread out as much a possible. All my vehicle take their cover with them and can often be left out in the open without major issues. This kind of open deployment often causes assaulting armies trouble because they need to clump together to generate enough combat power to quickly defeat the opponent. This can work to your advantage when the enemy decides to clump or not. If they clump you can quickly focus fire on the much weaker side and then use your mobility to move into the space you have created forcing the assaulters to move much further to reach you. If they don't clump then most of their heavy weapons will be out of range to about a third of your force allowing you to dictate their placement to you advantage.

The last problem is deep striking/drop pod lists. When facing these its always an uphill battle. Because they have great one turn maneuverability its almost impossible to dodge them in the early game. I would recommend placing everything in reserve and going second. Then come on a move to where they are not.

The tau gun line seems to work really well at the local shop. The guy who plays it fields as many full streangth fire warrior squads as possible, and then the rest in suits. Its pretty nasty. He has broadsides for vehicle destruction. I watched him dissmember a local ork player who had a few mobs of lootas, a battlewagon and a few big mobs of boys. It seems to work for him pretty well.

sennacherib wrote:The tau gun line seems to work really well at the local shop. The guy who plays it fields as many full streangth fire warrior squads as possible, and then the rest in suits. Its pretty nasty. He has broadsides for vehicle destruction. I watched him dissmember a local ork player who had a few mobs of lootas, a battlewagon and a few big mobs of boys. It seems to work for him pretty well.

Yeah, and you can make your Broadsides nigh impossible to kill. It's a bit pricey, but take this for instance:

3 Broadsides, each with hard-wired Drone Controllers, a Shas'ui with Hard-wired target lock and 6 shield drones. It comes up to 320 pts., but you have 12 wounds, half of them are 2+/4++ and you have 3 twin-linked Str. 10 AP1 shots, one of which may be taken against a different target. Two of those teams takes up 640 pts. of your list (I always think in 2,000 pt increments ) but can easily result in 4 destroyed AV14 vehicles. Better yet if they're something like Battlewagons or Ravagers. Add in markerlight goodness from other parts in your army (Stealth Teams - they can move and fire their markerlights whereas Pathfinders cannot) and you've got some dead killy units for just under 1,000 pts. Now fill the other 1,000 with Fire Warriors, Suits and HQ.

Personally, I leave the mech out of my Tau build. It's disconcerting to some when you show up to the table with no mech - especially in 5th Edition. When they realize that their melta, their dark lances, their lascannons are all a bit misplaced. It's not for everyone, but I have had success with my Footdar list (and the Avatar of Khaine is no small part of that list), but Tau can make foot work, I think. I back them up with Shadowsun and an Ethereal. A 18" bubble of Ld 10 that can be re-rolled makes Leadership a non-issue. And their range will make shooting a non-issue too.

Of course, Seize Ground will always give a list like this trouble, but that is why you adapt. Or add a pack of Kroot and Hounds to go grab those last minute objectives.

Couldnt agree with your build advice more Puma. I played a very similar list third round of a tourni that i was sweeping with a nidzilla, stealer shock hybrid list that i used to run. Looking across the table i saw only Once vehicle in my foes line, a Hammerhead. The rest was 72 firewarrior and a bunch of suites. i Never made it into melee. The sheer firepower was staggering. Once my stealers were gone he just ADVANCED his suites and continued firing. I think the only unit i destroyed was the hammerhead and that was the first round of shooting. Then i was done.
A related list that i lost too in another recent tourni is the No line of site list. The tau player took all these "missile pods" dont know the exact brand, but they didnt need line of site. He also had a sky ray, hammer head and some sniper teams. I just got pummled. He put everything behind cover till most of my rhinos and vehicles (i play marines too) were in flames. THen he advanced and pummled my foot trooops with massed fireing. He and I are 1 for 1 in our last two tounament face offs.
Tau can still be very good with the right build. I personallly think that the gun line would be very effective against the ML wolf spam list. They seem like they are the rocks paper scissors spoiler list in the current meta.

striderx wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:It has to be admitted that Tau are currently one of the two weakest armies in the game.

This, is what YOU think, and it's definitely the worst advice you can give to the OP.

At OP: At a amateur or intermediate level of playing, Tau is a very tough army to use. So don't be surprised you lose often.

At higher level of playing (once you get really good with your Tau with LOTS of experience), you will find yourself winning most of the time, even against opponent's with the SAME experience level.
Majority will tell you Tau is one of the weakest codex, but that's because the majority are not playing Tau at a higher level. That being said, I m not pretending Tau is better than SW or IG. But it is definitely middle tier or close to tier 1.

Also, Tau cannot scale well at low level point games. So don't expect to do well at 1k point. You will ultimately have to scale up to at least 1750 points.

It what I think by point value analysis of the codexes and rule changes, borne out by GT records over several years.

When you say that Tau are close in power to SW or IG, are you actually being serious or is it a joke?