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...even came out with mutated hands but they kept him.

That actually makes it worse...

Basically, the argument against C.S. Goto's stuff is a matter of degree.

All BL authors make mistakes and fluff blasphemies from time to time. Even authors like Abnett and McNeill, as well as the rest of the HH authors (see: Iacton Qruze), have made fluff errors in their novels. Abnett actually has a tendency to add heavy doses of more "modern" realism to his stories which sometimes conflicts with fluff. Other authors are similar.

Goto however, writes as though he were simply grabbing terms from a random 40k word generator. There are numerous instances of things (people, weapons, whatever) performing acts that are completely contrary to the established fluff for those things. From Slaanesh-worshiping Eldar to Space Marines wielding Multilasers that fire bullets, to back-flipping terminators, it seems as though Goto has neither any knowledge of how 40k works, nor any respect for the basic 40k canon.

This kind of creativity wouldn't really be a problem normally, but since 40k books are written for 40k fans, and 40k fans expect a mostly consistent canonical foundation in line with the established lore (aka, they expect a book about Warhammer 40000), such blatant against-the-grain writing is widely rejected by the 40K fanbase.

this just reminds me of that Chaplain that did a psychic scream in Ultramarines.

H.B.M.C. wrote:a Kasrkin (the type of soldier that gave Eisenhorn the jitters)

I'd very much like an explanation of this

H.B.M.C. wrote: How can someone who's trained long enough to become a Kasrkin (the type of soldier that gave Eisenhorn the jitters) still be young enough to become a Marine?

There's no age cutoff on turning someone into a Marine, it's just more stable to do it on younger folks. Done to adults plenty of times in various background materials.

Depends again on fluff. I remember reading that some of the organs (most notably the one responsible for growing the ribcage into a sheath of ceramite to protect the organs) depends on the natural hormones during the growing period in a human's life to grow that sheath. Afterwards the body stops actually growing bones and it would probably be rendered useless.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

...even came out with mutated hands but they kept him.

That actually makes it worse...

I thought that but they seemed to just turn a blind eye...
I think they would have replaced his hands afterwards with robot hands or something but still.

DarknessEternal wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote: How can someone who's trained long enough to become a Kasrkin (the type of soldier that gave Eisenhorn the jitters) still be young enough to become a Marine?

There's no age cutoff on turning someone into a Marine, it's just more stable to do it on younger folks. Done to adults plenty of times in various background materials.

Hmm I don't know about that. The Rites of Initiation have the whole process from neophyte to Marine at ages 10 - 18, starting with the secondary heart.

An initiate receives training before joining the ranks as a full brother. A Marine usually joins the ranks between the ages of 16-18, but such are the hormonal changes induced by the process of creating a Space Marine that recruits are physically fully grown before then. Pressures during wartime may accelerate the process.

Kor Phaeron and Luther are two good examples of persons who were to old to become Astartes. Can't think of any instances myself where an older gent has become a marine.

Back when the Primarchs were being found, I believe that some of their followers from the worlds they were found were turned into "quasi" marines through various techniques.

Though this may be me making things up, or may have been retconned.

SilverMK2 wrote:Back when the Primarchs were being found, I believe that some of their followers from the worlds they were found were turned into "quasi" marines through various techniques.

Though this may be me making things up, or may have been retconned.

No you are right, it's the process that was applied to Kor Phaeron and Luther, they were made as close to marines as possible without the full astartes treatment.

purplefood wrote:

Hoodwink10 wrote:What books are you guys refering to? I've read the Deathwatch books, but what else?

The DoW books...
I found them entertaining which is what they are supposed to do...
However people hate it because of the massive fluff errors...
Some Fan-fiction is better than Goto which is saying a lot.

Of course DoW books are crap! The stupid Blood Ravens would never have lasted this long. If they had gotten with 300m of anything remotely chaos they would have immediately turned traitor and began eating each other or something. They are worst than the mechanicum in the sense that they are just one bad day away from falling to the dark powers.


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DarknessEternal wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote: How can someone who's trained long enough to become a Kasrkin (the type of soldier that gave Eisenhorn the jitters) still be young enough to become a Marine?

There's no age cutoff on turning someone into a Marine, it's just more stable to do it on younger folks. Done to adults plenty of times in various background materials.

hugely risky though. Leman Russ' house hold guards of fenris pretty much all died off during the founding because they were too old. I thought it had to be early in life while the body was still developing so before 20ish. That accounts for Luther, that body guard in the first 3 horus heresy books, ect.

DarknessEternal wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote: How can someone who's trained long enough to become a Kasrkin (the type of soldier that gave Eisenhorn the jitters) still be young enough to become a Marine?

There's no age cutoff on turning someone into a Marine, it's just more stable to do it on younger folks. Done to adults plenty of times in various background materials.

There is definitely a cut-off, the gene seed implantation will not take succeed in a mature host. If you are referring to people undergoing a process similar to Luther then they are not being made into full Astartes although their life span is extended and they are physically altered.

[delete]

Aside the known failures, one thing I've griped most is in the first DoW book where it talks about the Orks attacking the city to distract the Blood Ravens from Sindri and Bale's motives. After that you don't read anything about the warboss at all, no mention of a great climatic battle, just...poof. Really poor writing there.

He also does like 5 pages of how a chaos biker shoots out I think an Eldar Vyper only to get cleaved in half by a passing Falcon tank in an almost comedic sense. Really puts a sour taste in the mouth to read things like that that have almost no point.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the mighty-morphing Space Marine vehicles...

*leaves stage*

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:this just reminds me of that Chaplain that did a psychic scream in Ultramarines.

That pissed me off to no end. Then again, I have a gigantic list of gripes with that movie. It's almost as if one of the producers was acting as a pseudonym for C.S Goto there was that much wrong with the film...Anyway....

L. Wrex

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:this just reminds me of that Chaplain that did a psychic scream in Ultramarines.

That was explained within 20 seconds of its occurrence.


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Gridge wrote:
There is definitely a cut-off, the gene seed implantation will not take succeed in a mature host. If you are referring to people undergoing a process similar to Luther then they are not being made into full Astartes although their life span is extended and they are physically altered.

Not so. Chaos Space Marines are almost exclusively made from adults.

Not so. Chaos Space Marines are almost exclusively made from adults.

Seeing as how Chaos Space Marines are all a bunch of mutated freaks, I'm not sure that really supports an argument that you can make loyalist Space Marines out of adults.

I dont mind the Eldar falling for a Space Marine.

Think about it...size matters.

Even to the Eldar.

Trickstick wrote:Uwe Boll is pretty good though, he is like the Ed Wood of our generation but his stuff is watchable. I do have a stack of unwatched Uwe next to me, I could well change my mind after I get through it. In the name of the King was good, for instance.

On the multilasers, what is wrong with marines using them? There is no way that a marine could pick one up, ever, anywhere in the entire galaxy? I haven't read any Goto so I'm not trying to defend him or say he is a good writer, but slagging him off because of unorthodox weaponry is a bit of a reach.

In the name of the king was good? Did you even watch that movie? The acting was so horrible it wasn't even funny. None of the characters even sounded like they cared about the roles they were playing. The plot has been so over used it's not worth mentioning. It was a poor attempt to cash in on yet another fantasy title and failed at that.

DarknessEternal wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:this just reminds me of that Chaplain that did a psychic scream in Ultramarines.

That was explained within 20 seconds of its occurrence.

They started going for the Thunderhawk 20 seconds after the occurrence and one of the marines asked if the Chaplain was ok. Not much of an explantion. Still an asspull.

Snogs wrote:
I dont mind the Eldar falling for a Space Marine.

Think about it...size matters.

Even to the Eldar.

okay, there is only one chapter of space marines (The Space Wolves) that have sex, and are. . . erm. . . EQUIPPED to have sex.

this is why everyone makes fun of them, because the space vikings are quite fully capable of doing everything the vikings of yore did

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:this just reminds me of that Chaplain that did a psychic scream in Ultramarines.

That was explained within 20 seconds of its occurrence.

They started going for the Thunderhawk 20 seconds after the occurrence and one of the marines asked if the Chaplain was ok. Not much of an explantion.

Spoiler:

Would have made a little sense if he was possessed, but no. Turns out he isnt possessed either.

Still an asspull.

Just saying, what part of IS THE CROZIUS READY? NO, IT NEEDS MORE TIME!! is unclear?

Wait you think that the discharging of the Croziums power field as a desperate move was a psych. scream and then you complain about how wrong such scream is?

Dark Scipio wrote:Wait you think that the discharging of the Croziums power field as a desperate move was a psych. scream and then you complain about how wrong such scream is?

But...that's not how a Crozius funtions...

And you know that despite being a force field generator it cant be discharged that way as a desperate move because...

How about that one time when a LR turns into a Razorback!

I'd personally have no problem with BL authors bending the fluff a little, as long as they make it interesting and believable, Goto's work look more like something out of a high school student finishing his paper the night before it's due by throwing in random stuff.

I've never read any of CS Goto's 40K novels, (or anyone else's for that matter) however I have gained the impression that the easiest way to list the mistakes is to print out his novels in list format.

Kilkrazy wrote:I've never read any of CS Goto's 40K novels, (or anyone else's for that matter) however I have gained the impression that the easiest way to list the mistakes is to print out his novels in list format.

BAZINGA.

I have read Eldar Prophecy. Got a bit more than halfway through before I had to put it down. It really was terrible.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The bit I like from C.S. Goto's work is the Kasrkin who became BFF's with a Terminator, and then the Kasrikin got made into a Marine! How can someone who's trained long enough to become a Kasrkin (the type of soldier that gave Eisenhorn the jitters) still be young enough to become a Marine?

Isn't there Space Wolf recruits who are well established warlords in their Fenrisan tribe before the "Sky Warriors" come to take them away? I thought this happened to Wolf Lord Morkai? Also isn't Canis the same?