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It is even more vulnerable to tarpiting then other MCs, most of whom, have alot more attacks.

if Holocaust was still a CC power...

its funny that I switch from claiming its easy to kill and then defending it but...

All GK units seem to share the common trait of being wicked at cc and shooting, and the dreadknight is no exception.
As an example, it will be able to carry 2 heavy psilencers and psybolt ammo. Giving it around 24 str 5 shots. If it gets the chance to shoot first, it will probably wipe that horde you tried to tarpit it with in the assault.

That said, elite cc units with invulnerable saves will wipe it out. I'm thinking specifically of ss/th termies here.

This things job is clearly to scare the crap out of the opponent and force them to commit massive resources into killing it. At that it will probably work perfectly Id say.

Bruteboss wrote:
This things job is clearly to scare the crap out of the opponent and force them to commit massive resources into killing it. At that it will probably work perfectly Id say.

Having seen the supposed stats mentioned in the thread, I agree with this, It's a huge mayhem machine, trying to provoke an 'oh crap we'd better kill that thing now!!!1!!1!!!!one!' response, and while you concentrate on oblivionating it the rest of his GK chummies saunter up and blow you to bits!

As for orks tactics, due to the massive base size a max size unit of boyz with PK nob should be able to deal with it simply because almost all would be able to get into base contact/near a model in base contact, assuming it shunts forward in turn 1 (i.e. is now in your deployment zone), and assuming it cannot assault after the shunt, then it is open for a unit of boyz to charge it, they only wound on 6s but that that is 29x4 = 116 hits, of course not taking into account the PK attacks...

I know its situational, but even considering the math it's quite possible to see this baby go down in assault to a 215pt troops choice...

Also: fluffwise it's supposed to be a counter to Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons... Still, from what I've read here I'd guess a Bloodthirster would make short work of one.
I'm anxiously awaiting the codex to see to what degree Daemonhunters will actually be the bane of my Daemons. Thusfar I gather that I can't deepstrike my units too close to the Grey Knights. If that's all then I think thinks could be worse.

Cilithan

Nids and Dark Eldar- poison it :0) Massed poison fire mulches MC's regardless of fancy saves.

Orks- rokkit spam (lots of it) or Lootas and wait for the failed saves to rack up. PK's and even BC's should mess it up in CC.

Necrons- massed destroyer fire? If it's T7 gauss rules actually kick in, but if not then it's the old standby of shoot it lots until it quits twitching.. Warscythes in CC and Wraiths.

Eldar- spammed Starcannon and Pulselasers/Brightlances. Even scatter lasers will mess it up, but it'd be a lot slower.

Marines- take your pick. All sorts of good toys. Anything you'd use to kill a Hive Tyrant or similar will work.

Guard- the old standby- bombardment Also missiles and lascannon. The 2+ save is annoying, but not unbeatable. The leman russ with the 20-shot gatling might be good if the S is 5 or better (i don't have the codex).

Daemons- faith, trust and pixie dust Bloodcrushers perhaps, or other khorne smackdown artists?

CSM- As marines, but with less options. *shrug* Oblits might help...

What are the stats of a dreadknight?

Chowderhead wrote:I'm actually suprised no-ones brought this up:

Ghazzy gets off a Waaagh!, goes, and punches the Dreadknight.

With 7 attacks at S10, it's going to kill it really fast, within 1-2 turns. And Ghazghull gets a 2++ during the initial assault, so you have a near invulnerable tank punching this so hard and fast it will go down.

I didn't think anyone played Ghazghull anymore...

ahhh, game-in-a-vacuum...

Unless they put a Daemonhammer on it, and unless Daemonhammers work against Daemon Princes, I don't see this thing being able to stand against a Nurgle Prince with warptime...and the prince would be half it's points cost...why is everyone so worried about this thing? It costs a crapload, and there are plenty of other scarier things out there. Mephiston could take this thing no problem...

Almost any tryanid with a multiple boneswords or bonesword and lashwhip combo. Fail that leadership, good night dread knight. As for the swarmlord ...

For IG, a HWS with orders firing twin linked lascannon. How about snipers with a PBS?

Unless they put a Daemonhammer on it, and unless Daemonhammers work against Daemon Princes, I don't see this thing being able to stand against a Nurgle Prince with warptime...and the prince would be half it's points cost...why is everyone so worried about this thing? It costs a crapload, and there are plenty of other scarier things out there. Mephiston could take this thing no problem...

It's because most people are still talking from the leaked codex perspective. It lost 1 point of toughness and 1 point of invulnerable save, the holocaust psychic power was removed entirely and all the guns that sounded awesome turned out to be garbage. You're correct, it won't stand up to much.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I'm actually suprised no-ones brought this up:

Ghazzy gets off a Waaagh!, goes, and punches the Dreadknight.

With 7 attacks at S10, it's going to kill it really fast, within 1-2 turns. And Ghazghull gets a 2++ during the initial assault, so you have a near invulnerable tank punching this so hard and fast it will go down.

I didn't think anyone played Ghazghull anymore...

ahhh, game-in-a-vacuum...

I still play him occasionally. He's absolutely amazing for what you pay for.

Oh, and if the Vindicare's turbo-penetrator (lol) round only takes away invulnerable saves from wargear, than Ghaz will still get his Waaagh! invulnerable save.

I mean, sure, you'd want to be using his Waaagh! against something else, especially against the Grey Knights, who'll have plenty of nicer targets for him to beat on (Ghazzie, meat Paladin Squad. Paladin Squad, meet Ghazzie), but if you absolutely need something completely, totally, irrefutably dead, just call in Ghaz and he'll make it happen. Really, it goes without saying.

I just cannot understand why are they making rules that encourages no-brain play style. If Dreadknight had saves comparable to standart terminator armour then seeking cover would be still beneficial for you in most situations and you would keep decent inv. save in open and any unit in CC would have to get throught to hit rolls, to wound rolls and your decent inv. save as well - too decent for 4 wounds...

Not mentionning partial immunity to krak shots - theres good reason why monstrous creatures are +3 max - there are not only Long fangs, much more things will suffer. What about Typhoons or other expensive few-krak platform deliverance? You cant get rear or side shot against MC and where kraks(which could be massed against multiple wound models) did not work, melta came to do the job - which does not work here too. You wanna keep your MC with +3 more durable against krak spam? Stay in cover. Here it does not matter...you either have antiGK army or youre practicaly screwed against terminators + these beats.

Seems I wont have chance to play anything else than Nullzone Librarian, TH/SS terminators and Vindicators...And not every codex can do this. You cant just spam anti GK weapons in all commers list, and if you will not then bye bye for you.

You cannot also outmaneuver them as easily as it may seem. Most of his non-numerous army will constantly lay fire on your army from turn 1(psycannon)/(stormbolters)2 while advancing towards you...

I am not saying GK cannot be countered - actually counters are pretty obvious and devastating, but this unit in particular is making it hard for me to see army well prepared to beat many other codices and still be able to beat GK codex as well. It looks like you could play antiGK army and then there is everything else...

Allright, dreadknights are str 7 Tough 7 4 wounds 2+ 4++ , and it can DS and make the 30 inch teleport shunt, this thing is going to suck up a lot of fire power, some armies will be fine, others will not like this thing depending on the load out. It's main strength is going to be firepower. Without sacrificing any CC ability,2 gatling psilencer is 24 shots walking accross the table at you. 2 of these things with 2 str 7 heavy 4 rending psycannons, and remember MC can fire them as heavy even when moving, is going to make MEQ and any AV 12-13 vehicle dissappear in an awful hurry, even av 14 is not going to last long with str 7 rending.

I guess lots of lasgun fire still would take it down, 4 wounds isnt that much compared to a bucket ful of lasgun

Stats of the Dreadknight

WS BS S T W I A LD
10 10 8 8 16 10 10 10

JK

As I remember basicaly your run of the mill monsterous creature. with a 2 armor and 5 invuln.

Base attacks are dread CC weapons though that can be changed.

with a 12 shot shooting weapon.

My thoughts, kill it with fire, no more, eh, a little more good.

sourclams wrote:
And Ghazzy successfully blows his 1/game ability to go kill a thing worth 60% of his points?
Similarly, what happens if a Vindicare shoots Ghaz with a shield breaker T1? On Ghaz' turn he has literally no save. Vindicare shoots him T2 with the Turbo Penetrator for 2 wounds, DK lands 2 punches on him with Hammerhand up, and he dies.

If the Vindicare shoots ghaz with a shield breaker he should lose his 5++ but not his mega armor save as that is not invunerable right? It merely becomes invulnerable by special rule, later after the Vindi has shot im with the shield breaker.

just read new GK codex in store. DK are t6 and have 2+/5++

Ogard wrote:just read new GK codex in store. DK are t6 and have 2+/5++

If this is true, I feel A LOT better.

There's always Sternguard Veterans. 20 shots, roughly 13 - 14 hit, 10 - 12 wound. 2 wounds gone, and your antitank can take care of the remaining wounds pretty quickly.

Sasori wrote:

Ogard wrote:just read new GK codex in store. DK are t6 and have 2+/5++

If this is true, I feel A LOT better.

The feel good i just spent about 2 hours reading the codex. tey got it today so most stores prob have. only for display tho.
everything will be released on 2nd april

sourclams wrote:
Similarly, what happens if a Vindicare shoots Ghaz with a shield breaker T1? On Ghaz' turn he has literally no save. Vindicare shoots him T2 with the Turbo Penetrator for 2 wounds, DK lands 2 punches on him with Hammerhand up, and he dies.

Nothing happens. Ghaz's Waaagh! turns his normal save into an invulnerable save.

Exergy wrote:

sourclams wrote:
And Ghazzy successfully blows his 1/game ability to go kill a thing worth 60% of his points?
Similarly, what happens if a Vindicare shoots Ghaz with a shield breaker T1? On Ghaz' turn he has literally no save. Vindicare shoots him T2 with the Turbo Penetrator for 2 wounds, DK lands 2 punches on him with Hammerhand up, and he dies.

If the Vindicare shoots ghaz with a shield breaker he should lose his 5++ but not his mega armor save as that is not invunerable right? It merely becomes invulnerable by special rule, later after the Vindi has shot im with the shield breaker.

Mega armor is wargear. Ghazzy's WAAAUGH! functions to turn his armor save, granted by wargear, into an invulnerable save, which is still granted by wargear.

Sounds more like sophistry to me, even if it's RAW-right. His save becomes invulnerable due to an innate 1/game ability based on WAAAGH energy, not on a shield generator built into his mega-armour.

'Mephiston could take this thing no problem... '

Same as he can take most everything else, no problem, due to being an OP CTRHPITA.

sourclams wrote:

Exergy wrote:

sourclams wrote:
And Ghazzy successfully blows his 1/game ability to go kill a thing worth 60% of his points?
Similarly, what happens if a Vindicare shoots Ghaz with a shield breaker T1? On Ghaz' turn he has literally no save. Vindicare shoots him T2 with the Turbo Penetrator for 2 wounds, DK lands 2 punches on him with Hammerhand up, and he dies.

If the Vindicare shoots ghaz with a shield breaker he should lose his 5++ but not his mega armor save as that is not invunerable right? It merely becomes invulnerable by special rule, later after the Vindi has shot im with the shield breaker.

Mega armor is wargear. Ghazzy's WAAAUGH! functions to turn his armor save, granted by wargear, into an invulnerable save, which is still granted by wargear.

The turbo-penetrator, AFAIK, only removes EXISTING invulnerable saves. This means that the Vindicare would remove the 5++ save Ghaz has. Ghaz then Waaagh!s, using a special rule to turn his saving throw into an invulnerable save for one game turn. As the 2++ invulnerable save wasn't there when the Vindicare shot, the shot doesn't affect it.

Except that in all the excerpts people have quoted thus far, it's not written that way.

personally i will be unleashing my venoms / and trueborn at it. 12 shots per venom, plus 17 more from the trueborn on board (2 SC, 3 carbine) all hitting on 3 and wounding on 4. yea hes got a 2+..... but he only gets 1 roll per wound, and i dont think it has FNP, or other gunk. massed poison and just armor save the bejesus outa him. and of course i have the blaster trueborn, ravagers, raiders, insta gib haemonculus gear, etc.

sourclams wrote:Except that in all the excerpts people have quoted thus far, it's not written that way.

*shrug* Guess we just wait for the Codex and see for ourselves eh?

Basically it's the same as how to kill Mephiston. Do that, and you can do the same to the Dreadknight (Mephiston gets a 4+ cover save, the Dreadknight has a 4+ invul save. And you REALLY shouldnt be getting into CC with either).

If it is indeed now T6 I will breath a sigh of relief at how much easier it is to kill. All I will have to do is use BiD on a few lasguns and it will take it out, leaving all of the special weapons to aim at the normal knights. T7 was worrying me, with its immunity to S3 weapons.

Actually, I will have to crunch some numbers over BiD vs FrFSrF. My initial thinking is BiD at under 12", FrF at over 12".

I just wanna poke one with a Huskblade and watch my opponent go OMGWTF at having his Decepticon get one-shotted in HTH by a S3 model