Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Cost.
If GW has to keep track of issuing codes, and keep a user database to prevent cheating, it'll add cost to the figures.

But, if they do it a bit like the way DnD 4th ed was working with Insider, it's been tried before, and dropped.
That had a character creator, with plans for 3d grid-based mapping and effects for spells and such.
The GW 40k one could have an army list creator, and LoS and measurements, etc.

I think this would be a great idea for GW because I believe it would increase revenue. I think very few people would not buy miniatures in order to play the game BUT a lot of current miniature players would do both. It would also act as a gateway to increase the amount of people buying miniatures as people migrate from the computer version to the actual tabletop game.

I think it works pretty good with Blood Bowl, without monthly payments. And BB is not having any support from GW.

Then again, currently BB is a dead game as far as board games go. Anyone I know playing BB plays computer, no one plays table top. Are there players, sure, But I've been to a a lot of cities in the US and have yet to meet a regular group. At best its one guy with a a bunch of teams trying to get others to play.

Not only would GW suffer (only in table top department) from true computer games but so would local gaming stores, many of which rely on the revenue generated by selling GW games to stay open.

Near true to TTBG converted into computer games:
Chaos Gate (close to 2nd ed with diff. mechanics.)
Dawn of war (curiously close to 3rd/4th ed)
the fantasy one, I think something of the horned rat
Bloodbowl (near perfect example)
vassal (game mechanics, no visual representation)

Skinnereal wrote:Cost.
If GW has to keep track of issuing codes, and keep a user database to prevent cheating, it'll add cost to the figures.

But, if they do it a bit like the way DnD 4th ed was working with Insider, it's been tried before, and dropped.
That had a character creator, with plans for 3d grid-based mapping and effects for spells and such.
The GW 40k one could have an army list creator, and LoS and measurements, etc.

Must not have read the "monthly fee" part.

Oops, missed that.
Sounds good though, if that's all in there.

I have thought of this situation as well, and came up with the same conclusion an earlier poster mentioned. Each of the units you purchase have a code, that code is entered online and you get a virtual miniature. The miniature can be used to play 40K online against other people. The online component would charge a monthly fee or something to cover the additional costs. Would let players test out different loadouts on their models before actualy gluing everything together.

I think it would be a cool idea, but in the end, I dont see myself using it as much as one would think. For me, the "magic" of 40K and other tabletop games, is the interaction with others. actualy having a physical table to place your physical models that I have physicaly painted. While an online component would work well to simulate games for practice, I dont think it could replace the actual game, for me anyways

Jburch wrote:I have thought of this situation as well, and came up with the same conclusion an earlier poster mentioned. Each of the units you purchase have a code, that code is entered online and you get a virtual miniature. The miniature can be used to play 40K online against other people. The online component would charge a monthly fee or something to cover the additional costs. Would let players test out different loadouts on their models before actualy gluing everything together.

I think it would be a cool idea, but in the end, I dont see myself using it as much as one would think. For me, the "magic" of 40K and other tabletop games, is the interaction with others. actualy having a physical table to place your physical models that I have physicaly painted. While an online component would work well to simulate games for practice, I dont think it could replace the actual game, for me anyways

The problem with buying mineatures is manyfold. Not to mention the people that have their armies already and dont want to build them AGAIN to play a computer game. Then there are people only interested in the computer game itself that would say F buying models to play a computer game lol. Honestly why are so many people afraid of a monthly fee. At 10 dollars a month it would take you 30 to 50 months of playing to equal the cost of one tabletop army on average.

40k tabletop transfered over to computer, with a monthly fee to make GW money, worldwide access to 40k players 24/7, and a team to fix bugs/add updates/mabye plan contests (online GT to make up for all the nixed ones anyone?) and people would pay. I am 100 precent sure with the way the world works today that this idea is just a matter of time. The only question is how long till GW wakes up and says "you know, id like to make some more money today"

If warmachines had the word of mouth warhammer does it would already be cashing in.

The Close Combat series of games would have made a great WH40k games (not that CC needs it ).

There was 40K mod for CC2/3 some years ago well worth checking out if its still kicking about.

Actually just found a CC5 version here.

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Downloads&cid=253

I just logged onto Vassal and noted that there are currently 21 games of 40k being played. =p

Orock wrote:

Jburch wrote:I have thought of this situation as well, and came up with the same conclusion an earlier poster mentioned. Each of the units you purchase have a code, that code is entered online and you get a virtual miniature. The miniature can be used to play 40K online against other people. The online component would charge a monthly fee or something to cover the additional costs. Would let players test out different loadouts on their models before actualy gluing everything together.

I think it would be a cool idea, but in the end, I dont see myself using it as much as one would think. For me, the "magic" of 40K and other tabletop games, is the interaction with others. actualy having a physical table to place your physical models that I have physicaly painted. While an online component would work well to simulate games for practice, I dont think it could replace the actual game, for me anyways

The problem with buying mineatures is manyfold. Not to mention the people that have their armies already and dont want to build them AGAIN to play a computer game. Then there are people only interested in the computer game itself that would say F buying models to play a computer game lol. Honestly why are so many people afraid of a monthly fee. At 10 dollars a month it would take you 30 to 50 months of playing to equal the cost of one tabletop army on average.

40k tabletop transfered over to computer, with a monthly fee to make GW money, worldwide access to 40k players 24/7, and a team to fix bugs/add updates/mabye plan contests (online GT to make up for all the nixed ones anyone?) and people would pay. I am 100 precent sure with the way the world works today that this idea is just a matter of time. The only question is how long till GW wakes up and says "you know, id like to make some more money today"

If warmachines had the word of mouth warhammer does it would already be cashing in.

Yeah the already having models bit would be a bad thing... maybe you register an account, and then head to your local GW or flgs with a fully painted army and recieve credit for those units by email?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thing is this would be a great option for someone who cannot participate otherwise, perhaps someone who is physically disabled and cannot glue and paint, or someone who God forbid was a gamer and contracted a terrible virus or disease and would otherwise lose the ability to do one of the things he loved because he was bed ridden or quarantined. It would benefit many and still produce cash flow to feed the monster known as GW. GW could even emply this: Buy the mini in the virtual world to add to your army and pay 1/3 the price. If you enjoy said mini enough then you purchase it at GW or GW online and the 1/3 goes towards the full purchase of the model. They would still sell you paints and glue so again no cash flow lost. I should get into marketing...

VikingScott wrote:Vassal 40K.

And it was shut down by GW

lol

Yeah, shut down...

I would not pay a monthly fee to play 40k.

BuFFo wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Vassal 40K.

And it was shut down by GW

lol

Yeah, shut down...

I'm confused. Are you insinuating that it wasn't shut down by G-Dubbs? I don't know one way or the other, that's why I ask.



King Ghidorah

firmlog wrote:Then again, currently BB is a dead game as far as board games go. Anyone I know playing BB plays computer, no one plays table top. Are there players, sure, But I've been to a a lot of cities in the US and have yet to meet a regular group. At best its one guy with a a bunch of teams trying to get others to play.

Not only would GW suffer (only in table top department) from true computer games but so would local gaming stores, many of which rely on the revenue generated by selling GW games to stay open.

Near true to TTBG converted into computer games:
Chaos Gate (close to 2nd ed with diff. mechanics.)
Dawn of war (curiously close to 3rd/4th ed)
the fantasy one, I think something of the horned rat
Bloodbowl (near perfect example)
vassal (game mechanics, no visual representation)

You, and everyone else mentioning previous GW vgs, missed the most accurate outside of Blood Bowl: Final Liberation, which was a near direct translation of Epic 40K.

dawn of war. its already out. its based on warhammer 40k and it also its strategic

Ghidorah wrote:

BuFFo wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Vassal 40K.

And it was shut down by GW

lol

Yeah, shut down...

I'm confused. Are you insinuating that it wasn't shut down by G-Dubbs? I don't know one way or the other, that's why I ask.



King Ghidorah

Yes. Vassal was shut down. However, it was over taken by someone else and they are updating it and putting out new sprites, etc. So yes, Vassal 40k is still available to play. And lots of people are playing it. Right now.

No need for someone else to make what is already here and being used.

Aha! Thanks for the clarification!

As for this bit:

Dodiez wrote:No need for someone else to make what is already here and being used.

I disagree. While Vassal is awesome (what little I saw of it a few years back) it couldn't hope to compare to a full-on, balls-deep effort from a licensed game design company. It would be like the difference between fumbl.com and Cyanide's Blood Bowl. When G-Dubbs announced Blood Bowl, all the people playing on fumbbl said it was unnecessary. It is a faithful recreation of the board game/Living Rulebook and it is awesome.

The difference between Vassal's sprites in a 2-d, chit-based game vs a fully realized 3-D table is huge.
A similarly faithful port of 40k would be simply amazing.



King Ghidorah

Shadow of the Horned Rat did this for Fantasy.

The biggest issue that the game as a whole has is that of the way that GW likes changing edition rules and completely deep sixing thier games.

Shadow of the Horned rat came out, then a couple of months later, the next edition of the table top comes out, negating a few of the things that the last edition game played. I found this to be a big sticking point in the on the consol type of sim game, and it didn't help them out that they pushed this game as the one and the same. THIS was for fantasy, by the way, and you could send in for the tabletop version of a necromancer, which in effect told the players that THIS was the way to play warhammer.

Problem ended up it being a mixed message for the game. Great game, by the way, but in the way in which the game is plaed now, it would be considered a completly different game.

As to the 40K version, Final Liberation did what your talking about with Epic, but for a 40K game, I'm not seeing it based on the suck rule that GW seems to have when it comes to anything having to do with a computer. They fear it, simply put, and see the computer as competition. I say that based on everything that GW does, they try to do the opposite when it comes out to the computer, and then the whole product makes like a 180 degree turn and goes some other random direction.

They even had software that you could make up your armys, based on the units, and then out of the blue THAT even went to the dogs. That was just a basic army maker program. If GW can't even pull that off, you know that they arn't even going to attempt a basic fight game with the armys programed in and you being able to have a straight up fight with it.

DOW2 is probibly a good close second, even if there are a few glaringly BAD issues that the game has. The main one being that they try to do too mcuh with a RTS slant to it then just a straight up fight game, that this really is. YOU can influence this issue, though, and THQ is pretty good at customer support and listening to players. They don'tmind pushing the envelope, but they won't take the stuff too far, based on thier license agreement.

Suprised no one has talked about the old games, yet.

Grot 6 wrote:Shadow of the Horned Rat did this for Fantasy

Close, but not quite. This was kind of a precursor hybrid of RTS games. Everything moved in real time and you had to point and click to guide units. Plus, it was only against the PC, you couldn't hot-seat (switch chairs with a buddy) in order to play head-to-head. I will concede that it was a rather groundbreaking step towards what I think this thread is discussing.

I'd just like to add... I still think that the Shadow of the Horned Rat game was rigged in that, if you EVER chose the path that took you through Troll Country, it was impossible to advance. I think the sheer coding of the game was such that, should you enter Troll County, it was game over.

Grot 6 wrote:Final Liberation did what your talking about with Epic...

...and this was probably the BEST 40k-based game I have ever seen, bar none. Far better than the chit/hex based Rites of War. If I could get it working on my pc now, I would still play it. Titans? Ruined city terrain? Turn-based? 3-D (however primitive)? Yes please!

A more polished, up-to-date version of Final Liberation is EXACTLY what I would love to see in a 40k computer game port. Dig it:

$50 - basic game (think Final Liberation) that would be a digital copy of a 40k box set. Two basic armies with the core units available at the time.
$20 - $25 - per digital Codex with army-specific rules and unit models.
$05 - $30 - unit/model/vehicle download. This would be how you bought your army. Priced as a content download micro-transaction, from single model alll the way up to as high as you want to make a deal. No need to stop at a Battalion box this way.
$25 - An Army painter.
$15 - terrain packs - different packs for different table types; ruined cityscape, Imperial Sector, Eldar Crone World, Eye of Terror, desert world, the list goes on. This could include pre-made tables as well as a sandbox mode like a Tony Hawk game where you cna 'build' your own skatepark.
$40 - expansions as new box sets are released.
$20 - campaign packs. Pre-designed tables/rules for recreating some of the bigger battles in the 40k background. How about playing out the Battle of McCragge or the Battle of Armageddon? What about one of the Hive Fleet invasions? The Siege of Vraks or, holy crap!!! How about gaming the Horus Heresy?
$25 - Side expansions. Apoc. or Planetfall, etc. this could introduce Superheavies and Flyers, etc to games.

No matter how you slice it, I firmly believe that this would be a flipping cash cow for G-Dubbs. I doubt they'd see any more of a reduction in sales of physical models/rules/etc. I really doubt that a move in this direction would alienate their market any worse than the constant price hikes, poor rules, end entire mechanic changes. Not to mention the horrible reputation they are building with brick-and-mortar stores, both their own and independent retailers.

People will pick up the digital game, to be sure. But there will still be no substitute for the real deal. No DVD game will be as cool as setting an actual Phantom Titan on the table in front of players who have never seen a 40k-scaled one before. But, as I said before, I don't get to play 40k on my FLGS' 40k night anymore. This could be a great fix for my problem.
if G-Dubbs did the above, they just made $175.00 off of me with only one Codex. I would certainly buy them al as they were released. That would guarantee another couple hundred dollars. The there's all the terrain packs, etc. They would stand to make HUNDREDS more off of me than they will get for the rest of my life on physical models. Barring something super-awesome, I'll never buy another White Dwarf. I'll never, ever, ever buy a can of spray paint at $15 a pop. I'll not likely buy any other Codex except Eldar ever again. Maybe one or two here and there.




King Ghidorah

As an aside, Final Liberation is fairly easy to get working on modern machines. I have had it working on my 64 bit Win 7 machine.