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^ nothing wrong with proxying imo

heck i don't have enough models for trukks so i'm infamous for making functional and accuratly dimentional trukks out of kinects

i only have so many models so i once did a large footslogger list and just used empty bases to represent boys

sure it wont fly in tournaments btu against friends or at you friendly neighbodhood game shop who cares... its still going to be goos experience against em

How could you even begin to proxy GK with normal SM models on an enduring basis? The weapon loadouts are so dissimilar that you may as well use Ork Boyz.

But definitely agree. Buy the models. I can understand Generic Marines, given the similarity between all those models. GK simply don't fit that mold, though.

sourclams wrote:How could you even begin to proxy GK with normal SM models on an enduring basis? The weapon loadouts are so dissimilar that you may as well use Ork Boyz.

But definitely agree. Buy the models. I can understand Generic Marines, given the similarity between all those models. GK simply don't fit that mold, though.

Clearly they should be represented by Khorne Berzerkers instead

Orock wrote:As an ork player, there is a reason I dont assault tau vehicles. Most times I am going to need 6s just to hit. Many times I am going to lose orks to shrapnel, so its one of those times where I actually bother shooting (well lootas always shoot anyway, but you know what I mean, like slugga boys shooting piranha and such) so the prospect of setting up 100+ boys to lose half of them to pre assault damage from purifiers dosent give me alot of incentive to play.

In regards to my tyranids, after watching several TMC's get instant killed by force weapons, if it was a good friend, I have no problem playing them, as I'm going to get a good game. Some random stranger with a grey knight army if I go to a store? I might decide to pass.

I dont see it as a bad sport, there are people one doenst care for, armies one doesnt care for.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Clearly they should be represented by Khorne Berzerkers instead

No wai. Zombies with sacks and zombies bags (read THIS epic thread of terribad 'counts as' for my reference).



King Ghidorah

Ghidorah wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Clearly they should be represented by Khorne Berzerkers instead

No wai. Zombies with sacks and zombies bags (read THIS epic thread of terribad 'counts as' for my reference).



King Ghidorah

That thread wsa amazing

Worglock wrote: It's the principle of people jumping on the latest M. Night "Herpaderpadoo" Ward pile of gak.

So how long does a codex need to be out before you'll consent to play against it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saldiven wrote:Who you choose to play is always up to you, and you can use whatever criteria you like in making that determination.

Don't worry about what a bunch of people on the internet say about it.

He wouldn't have to worry about it except that he came and asked....

I am talking about certain people at my FLGS that jump on ABSOLUTELY EVERY NEW DEX, but yet never purchase a single model from that range, I'm talking about awful looking marines being proxied as angels, wolves, and now GK.

Orock wrote:As an ork player, there is a reason I dont assault tau vehicles. Most times I am going to need 6s just to hit. Many times I am going to lose orks to shrapnel, so its one of those times where I actually bother shooting (well lootas always shoot anyway, but you know what I mean, like slugga boys shooting piranha and such) so the prospect of setting up 100+ boys to lose half of them to pre assault damage from purifiers dosent give me alot of incentive to play.

Now I realize if I went to a tourney and was paired up against them I wouldnt have much choice, and poor demon players (amazingly we have 5 people at my store playing demon armies) have it worse. But does not wanting to play them make me a poor sport. Heck I feel I have a better chance against the top tier chezy space wolf and guard lists then I would even a half nasty knight list.

Thats why you carpet bomb them with Grots, and then send in the heavy hitters when they are stuck in. Twopronged attack, with cover fire from your looted Balisk/ Russ/ Destroyer.

Send in the tankbusta's' Kommando's, and hit that thing from 2 sides with rokket launchas, while you jump over that mess with your stormboyz., hitting that armor from behind.

You've already lost before you try, though. Like the old sayin goes, you can't win if you don' play...

I don't think that you just up and saying "Hey, that cheese is goin down under my nobnailed boot!" isn't out of the question, then after you go get yourself a looted vehicle thats orkified after the battle, then come back to play him again, you can tell him to try the next flash in the pan army, it might even be worth your time to get some more of his new stuff.

See if I think an army is cheesy, i'll go out of my way to not start that army - i'll fight it every day of the week to try and prevent the spread of cheese - but you'd have to prise the cash to invest in GK from my cold dead hands before I willingly started an army.

(Except for conversions! That's allowed for my Templars!)

I am also orks and am going to refuse to play gk, if anyone can honestly say they are just another army just read the codex its beyond a joke!

At OP, if they are proxying then insist on WYSIWYG.

As a gamer you are allowed to do that. In fact Codexes and the BGB do state a model should be WYSIWYG rather than continually Proxied

Because at the end of the day it is a game. If they spent time converting a GK force (Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons or something similar) Then that might float. But using regular marines (who have bolters and the like) couldn't be GKs. They would look wrong.

That is

The Night Stalker wrote:I will play grey knights, however I will not play against the neckbeard bandwagon jumpers, who put their awful looking vanilla SM's on the table and say they are GK's. If you wanna play GK buy those expensive models!

I agree, unless it's one of my better friends wanting to experiment for the benefit of our gaming circle.

I decided that the Asurmen-washed Boltgun Metal is drab, but I love the models and compact, elite armies. I also realised that I could save a tidy fortune by painting my future Knights army in the blue of my Alpha Legion, so to share their Land Raiders, Rhinos, Razorback and even a Stormraven which is waiting to be corrupted for the Legion.

People are only missing out refusing to play anything and take the fun out of the hobby, simply because of their ego and taking things too seriously. A loss is only in name if you learn.

The one thing that offsets the GK's power is that the models are fething expensive, 5 marines cost 33$ paired with the standard termie prices and vehilcle prices players are in for one hell of a spending spree.

how odd.

I lose WAY more games than I win, and I still play becuase I enjoy it! I'll refuse a game against a player who is a total jerk, but I'll never refuse to play just becuase of an army.

Shoot, my friend looks forward to playing against some grey knights just becuase his orks will outnumber them about 100000 to 1....

I totally understand all sides of the debate. It's pretty clear that there's a ton of WAAC gamers picking up GK because GW has finally given GK a good codex, and it's also clear that these players are more interested in "winning games of 40k" than in actually "playing a grey knight army." And that's fine.

One can debate whether the motives an opponent has in playing an army should inform your own choice to play against them and probably come up with an inconclusive answer.

I have been wanting to play GK for many years, and have collected RT termies and inquisitors and such since long before talk of a GK codex, but since they haven't had a codex that really appealed to me, and now they do, I don't want to play that codex (even though I have enough GK models to easily field an army) simply because so many people are jumping on the bandwagon. It's also hard to rationalize playing someone who 'switches' to GK by subbing every single model in from their AoBR set and continuing to do so. Once or twice, for the purposes of the local gaming group is fine, or to see how you like the force, but it's kind of hokey and a little insulting to be subjected to Lego GKs every weekend.

With that said, people will play the armies they like irrespective of the power of the collective meta in it's current incarnation: Codex: Grey Knights. I'm going to continue to play my CSM, and if that means that maybe I don't put a Greater Demon in my list, or elect to field Lucius and Kharn rather than two warptime princes in order to hedge my bets against the GK's inclination to kill the hell out of demons, so be it. This is why the good lord gave us terminators and obliterators and lascannons.

On the other hand, as has been stated above, there's a lot of good reasons to play against GK armies even if you are worried your opponent with leave your orks or whatever a green smear on the battlefield. To summarize:

- gain experience against the army, and faster learn its weaknesses (hint: shooty armies will be successful against GKs)
- the GK codex is part of the game now, and like it or not, it's not going anywhere. you're going to have to play them sooner or later. change your ML long fangs or whatever to lascannons, or buy more lootas and defcoptas and blast their psyfleman dreads early and hard, and be done with it.
- if you don't play, you'll never win (if that's your concern) and if you are convinced you'll lose from the get-go, you've made the outcome a foregone conclusion. So, you can play them and possibly win, or not play them and always lose.

Refuse to play the playa (because they are a douche or smell bad) not the army.

Hell, I'll be playing with GK (I've been playing with them - and losing against BA, daemons and SW, so it's time for some payback) at my next club meet after I get my codex. If any of the club's BA or SW players whine at me for running an overpowered army I'll just laugh at them in an ironic way.

I've already got 3000pts of GK (add another 2k of DH) so don't even need to add any of the newer units (hell, most of that 3k GK was bought second hand at 40% retail) after the last round of GK players left in droves after the newest shiny came out afterwards.

Chrome dog is right. If the playa is a one of -them- people that is not going to make the game enjoyable, do not play them.

To answer your question. Yes it does.

Don't judge people based on their army choice. You don't know how long the "Cheesey powergamer" struggled through the bad time with an old codex. Case in point; The GK deserve a powerful new dex.

Each codex goes through the same pattern.

Stage one: Wild rumors; "OMG it's so broken that Grey Knights shoot lascannons out their butts!"
Stage two: The new codex is the CHEESE! I hate bandwagoning power gamers!"
Stage three: Normal play
Stage four: "The fluff is nice, but that army is definitely a second tier list."
Stage five: "I can't believe you still play with that codex. You must like losing."
Stage six: "Our codex is so old and busted. We need lascannon butts!"

agnosto wrote:@Ghidora,

I can't read your posts, your sig is too distracting...

agreed lmfao

I'm building a Grey Knight army right now...and it's a tournament list built to win.

If another Grey Knight asks me to play against their Grey Knights....I won't do it...they're too cheesy. F them. WAAC mo-fos.

Atleast they werent designed with the sole purpose of hunting your army down.

As a daemon player, i fething hate them, but i wont refuse to play them.
Its another army with more learning curves.

If you dont care about winning though, why avoid an army?
A game is a game, you either play for fun or to win, and in either case, theres nothing gained from avoiding armies.

Grey Knights will only be the badass flavor of the week until the next codex or at least the next marine codex comes out...then the herds will be culled just a little bit and people will start to back away from them.

Just weather the storm and do the best you can against them with the army you normally run. My main army right now is DE airforce...Grey Knight armies can totally wreck my gak bad. Big friggin' deal.

I'll just learn how best to fight them. It cannot be any harder than throwing my army up against a guard parking lot. Don't think of it as unfair...be challenged, get better, learn 40k.

Quitting b4 you even start? Don't be a Kitty...you know *kitty*cat...? Cowboy up son! Losing make you a better player. Winning gets you....well...nothing.

I find your lack of balls disturbing.

shane, lesson learned mate.
Dont take open topped ravs, take closed topped voids instead

If you're ducking out on a game because someone is playing GK, you're a bad sport, but fortunately for your would-be opponent, you're also unskilled enough that all he really missed out on was a seal-beating, not like an actual good game was on the line or anything.

And if you lost at football, would you take your ball home too?

Man up and play the army that someone has invested time and money in creating, learning and playing.

There are many armies I do not want to play against and many armies that do not want to play against me. List builds counter other list builds, the GK will be in tournaments but Im not sure how many people are going to actually place until they get the rules down. Im expecting a lot of arguements with some rules until the faq is released. Take all comers lists are the best way to go, so if the Purifiers got you down go with 30 FNP cy boyz(Grotsnik)
in a battlewagon and get a kff to get cover saves while advancing. Purifiers are intimidating but I dont think many people will be running an all purifier army competitively as Crowe gives you furious charge with EVERYONE and no one for his army. Pepper him with lootas and shootas and im not seeing much his elitest army can do as long as you keep your distance and hit him when the times right.

The only time I would refuse to play against them would be if the player was one of the type of people who constantly bandwagon jumps. If I know and see that the same grey tactical marines have been Vanilla Marines then Wolves, then Angels, and are now becoming Grey Knights, THEN I would refuse to play. If I play the guy and he turns out to be an annoying d-bag, then I'll refuse to play them no matter what army they take.

However, in the end it's up to you. I would call it poor sportsmanship to refuse to play an opponent just because they're Grey Knights, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

godswildcard wrote:how odd.

I lose WAY more games than I win, and I still play becuase I enjoy it! I'll refuse a game against a player who is a total jerk, but I'll never refuse to play just becuase of an army.

Shoot, my friend looks forward to playing against some grey knights just becuase his orks will outnumber them about 100000 to 1....

+1 on this.

There are a dozen other factors which would determine whether I would play someone or not, which are more important than my perceived chance of winning a game.

I'm trying to understand the mindset of the OP but I really can't. It's a bloody game, have you got some kind of rule where if you lose a trapdoor opens beneath your feet and you fall down a tube and into a pit of crocodiles?

Pacific wrote:I'm trying to understand the mindset of the OP but I really can't. It's a bloody game, have you got some kind of rule where if you lose a trapdoor opens beneath your feet and you fall down a tube and into a pit of crocodiles?

It's the WAAC mindset, pure and simple. You don't have to actually be any good at the game to be a WAAC player.