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EmilCrane wrote:Next thing we know, Matt Ward will be responsible for 9/11 and the Holocaust.

Kennedy Assassination? Matt Ward
Vietnam War? Matt Ward
WW2? Matt Ward

Matt Ward is Dinkleberg in disguise.

Despite my disagreements with the MattWardification of GK, having read the article where they interviewed him about the 'dex in this months WD. He explicitly mentioned the SoB slaying story, and gave a rather short, but quite readable justification. I guess this means he realized he was going to get some flak about it.

It was basically along the line of 'GKs will use any means necessary to get the job done'. What this says to me is that he wanted to portray a certain aspect of the GK, but did so by grossly exaggerating, in a similar manner to how when a 9-yr-old starts 40K they say their SM Predator has a super-mega-cannon that kills everything!!!!1!!!!!11!

I agree he could have done it better, and the rules are overpowered, but sorry OP I too am growing tired of the marching band of Matt Ward threads that stomp around Dakka being very loud without suggesting a method of voicing the communities concerns in a manner which GW would actually notice.

As far as Mat Ward goes, I admit im not a big fan of is fluff writing. Alot of it is sort of outlandish and doesn't really fit into what one would expect to be typical 40K fluff, as he has proven by taking certain backround fluff and morphing it into something that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, even if he comes up with an excuse to make it happen. And of course his personal love of ultramarines, but we won't go there.

That aside, I don't really care about the technical aspects of the codices he gets involved in. Most armies seem to be as people hope them to be, and like stated before, if anyone thinks that GW doesn't look over the work and give the stamp of approval, then they are delusional. I think Mat Ward should be careful about his fluff writing, maybe even restricted a bit more by GW for the fluff aspect of things, but they can keep him on the rules and gameplay aspect of the codices. He's obviously making BA, SM and GK players happy with the new rules, im sure he'll do fine with future rules and such. GW must be pretty happy with the rules so far, so as long as new Codices written by other authors are on the same level of 'balance' as the ones Mat Ward has written, its all good.

Maybe GW just shouldn't let him write a codex alone.

My only problem is that some of the lore is kinda of overpowered. Like Demios moved into orbit and Malcador is somehow more powerful than Tzeench....

I think they really need to split codex design into rules and fluff. Rules wise, all the books currently out seem fine. Space Wolves are consistently pegged as a bit win button because of a couple of builds, but mostly, it's all fine and certainly no 7th edition situation. However the fluff is really getting quite poor. Kelly is good at fluff. Let him write it. Get Abnett in, let him write some stuff. Ward is decent at rules. Let him do it. Play each developer to their strengths.

That'd be my solution anyhow, if I was their manager.

Da Boss wrote:I think they really need to split codex design into rules and fluff. Rules wise, all the books currently out seem fine. Space Wolves are consistently pegged as a bit win button because of a couple of builds, but mostly, it's all fine and certainly no 7th edition situation. However the fluff is really getting quite poor. Kelly is good at fluff. Let him write it. Get Abnett in, let him write some stuff. Ward is decent at rules. Let him do it. Play each developer to their strengths.

That'd be my solution anyhow, if I was their manager.

I think it would be awesome if they had the BL authors write the fluff, especially Abnett; his writing would definitely improve it alot.

I don't think his fluff is particularly annoying. It's just for entertainment value. Truth be told, my take on fluff died when Bill King left GW - now that guy was my formative years writer though, so its a bit skewed.

Still, about the rules and mechanics: How is he making SM happy with rules? I don't know if one guy is in charge of the whole codex about that. Doubt it though. I would assume he has at least some input from playtesters and buddies in the company and stuff. What I really don't understand is why people think he is a Ultramarines fanboy when (if he is responsible for the game mechanics too at least) he completely squashed them to mediocrity with the BA codex beating them at so many things. Maybe the BA codex was a response to the power surge of SW necessitating a raised bar. Whoever playtested SW or BA in comparison to SM shoudn't be allowed near the dev team and go work as a mail order troll IMO.

You see, they have Matt Ward write the codexes because they love seeing players flame the latest codex, until it's their codex that gets redone, so that they have to shut up for a few months.

I don't think they really think in terms of watching people whine. Its just about selling the new flavor of the month - without being too obvious about it so people stull trust the currency through the inflation.

They write the fluff for their target market. If you are over 14 years of age it wasn't written for you. It's as simple as that. Notice how the stupid parts of the fluff are very on par with a lot of video games? It's like that on purpose because they have to compete with that. Is that 14 year old gonna go spend 60 bucks on a video game or is he gonna go spend 60 bucks on a shiny new super awesome Land Raider?

Gw obviously wants it to be the shiny new super awesome Land Raider so how are they gonna ensure that he does? By making outrageous stories that make the guys that use them sound Awesome in a 14 year olds mind.

But to anyone not around that age (and some that are) it sounds stupid and too fan fiction like.

EmilCrane wrote:Next thing we know, Matt Ward will be responsible for 9/11 and the Holocaust.

Kennedy Assassination? Matt Ward
Vietnam War? Matt Ward
WW2? Matt Ward

Nonsense!

Gav Thorpe was responsible for all those things!

When I was 14, I wasn't thinking that getting the most awesomestest gigantacrusher of galaxies soul eating blood drinking biker from hell badass with an axe for a head etc etc etc kind of 'good guys versus badguys' plot over the top everything with exploding sugar on top really qualified as good writing at all.

I think some credit to the 14 yr olds should be given. If anything, from what I have encountered, they don't care as much for over the top fluff as for an easy win army.

They aren't that dumb to spend their parents money on a model just because GW said the guy single handedly ate a bloodthirster's grandmother and shat out a planet or anything. They'll get the model because he gives their army an awesome bonus. Many that age (myself included when I first first started with strategy games) have yet to learn about the finer aspect of the game like actually painting, thinking of "fun" matchups instead of easy beatdown spam lists.

The kind of attitude I see that assumption of shiney mega-awesome super whatnots applies more to my friends' little kids who like watching WWE raw for their sense of epic conflict, nothing as multifaceted and complex and full of symbolism and real world parallels, complex rules, stategic thinking, and so on as the 40k universe.

As a 14 yr old, I was very aware of such things that made the difference between a fun game and an awesome game. But I did still game like a munchkin with absolutely no tact or taste at that age, just win win win - didn't care what models looked like crap, how believable or silly the fiction behind it was, etc just as long as their stats and rules gave me an edge. Sadly, some people never grow out of that. At least its appropriate for a 14 year old, but I don't envision them buying models because of fluff at all.

Asherian Command wrote:My only problem is that some of the lore is kinda of overpowered. Like Demios moved into orbit and Malcador is somehow more powerful than Tzeench....

If a corrupted STC could move an entire Forgeworld into the warp for a thousand years, I wouldn't say it's OTT to say that Malcador could do something similar with a small moon. The guy powered the Golden Throne for a little while! He was an insanely powerful psyker, the Emperor's right hand and was probably privy to some awesome stuff from the Dark Age of Technology. IIRC it's even hinted that he was a Sensei, i.e. one of the Emperor's children (actual children here, not the filthy traitor scum).

Hey lay off on the Emperor's Children! They have feelings too!

Also what STC moved a Forgeworld into the Warp for 1000 years?

Edit: I also never heard of Malcador being a sensei, weren't sensei retconned? Or was it just the star-child?

I'm not sure that the writers of these codices really intend for the bizarre permutations of army lists that we end up with, when the internet has its way with the books.

You have a whole lot of, "Nobody would do that, right? ...Right?"


The codices themselves are incredibly balanced, and incredibly balanced armies can be competitive. Look at Space Wolves: Grey Hunters in Rhinos/Razorbacks is very competitive.

Every codex has a number of popular competitive builds, though, and the value of the codex is often based on the number of competitive builds that can be derived from it. For example:

SW can do GH / Rhino Razor + LF spam, w/ or w/o Twolf cav deathstars, Loganwing (meh), and heavy Razorback spam.
IG can do Mechvets, blob guard, Air cav, etc. These are still competitive.
Vanilla Marines can do Bikers / Khan builds, Vulkan Melta Marines, MoTF dread spam, and pod Marines.
BA can do DOA (which I'm not convinced is competitive...), Mech Angels, etc.

Then you have codices like CSM, that gives rise to really only one competitive build, the 9x Oblits, 2x Lash, Min-Max PMs build. Some people have had luck with the Monster Mash 3x Defilers, 3x Dreads, DPs builds but it's arguably less competitive. Eldar is the same way really...you've got Mechdar, seer council bikers, and footdar is usually regarded as awful.



The codices themselves are pretty balanced, but some synergize far better than others. As for the points values, they're completely out of whack idiotic. The new GK codex, SW, BA, etc., are all evidence of this when compared to Vanilla Marines.

DorianGray wrote:
We need to sign a "fire Matt Ward" petition, and make Phil Kelly write more books.

There already is one. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357804.page

asimo77 wrote:Hey lay off on the Emperor's Children! They have feelings too!

Also what STC moved a Forgeworld into the Warp for 1000 years?

Edit: I also never heard of Malcador being a sensei, weren't sensei retconned? Or was it just the star-child?

Spoilers for "Dark Mechanicus":



Also, neither the star-child nor the Sensei have been retconned, they're just older fluff.

Because it is better than having Cruddace write them...

Vepr wrote:Because it is better than having Cruddace write them...

What's wrong with Cruddace? He made Carnifexes a less obvious choice to take and flubbed a few parts of the Tyranid codex, but overall it's still very playable. The Guard codex is excellent. His fluff is fine.

Also, thank you for being like, the only person on Dakka not to put an N in his name. "Cruddance" makes me cringe.

I thought Cruddace did fine...

Cruddace screwed over Nids, Competitified IG and wrote the new Tomb Kings book which looks to most people at best mediocre.
It's not Wardish, though. I'd rather have Cruddace than Ward.

Melissia wrote:I thought Cruddace did fine...

So did I, which is why I find the frequent bitching about him strange. He's not quite Phil Kelly, but he's not writing awful codices.

Brother SRM wrote:

Vepr wrote:Because it is better than having Cruddace write them...

What's wrong with Cruddace? He made Carnifexes a less obvious choice to take and flubbed a few parts of the Tyranid codex, but overall it's still very playable. The Guard codex is excellent. His fluff is fine.

Also, thank you for being like, the only person on Dakka not to put an N in his name. "Cruddance" makes me cringe.

Apparently, you're not a "real" Tyranid fan if you think that Cruddace did not in fact completely "ruin" Tyranids.

I, for one, am glad that he beat down Carnifexes. They were too much of a "duh" option to take in Tyranid builds.

My problem with Cruddace is more about his terrible rules and the gulf between his units. There are always going to be a "better choice" in a codex but the gap between these units in the IG and Tyranid codices is rather large. A lot of the rules in the nid codex appear to have been pulled from a hat and not even play tested.

Ward can murder some fluff but on a whole his rules are cohesive and do not leave you scratching your head due to either clarity or why they were even created in the first place.

I'm tellin' yah, Ward needs to be the rules design guy, and let other people do the naming and the background text.
Phil Kelly seems pretty good at marrying the two _most_ of the time.

The best part is that other people do the naming and background text for the most part already.

Ward, Kelly, and Cruddace are not operating in a vacuum. People like Andy Hoare, Gav Thorpe, and Graham McNeill are consulted and help write the fluff by all accounts.

How do you explain the recent noticeable departure from the older fluff and style then? I can't help but feel it must have to do with the writer. Look at the Ork Codex vs. the Grey Knights Codex. You can't tell me that Ward didn't have something to do with that.
(Though Kelly did come down with Wolfitus for his Space Wolf codex)

You mean the Ork codex with Tuska the Daemon-Killa giving a Daemon Prince of Khorne a neutering?

It's a case of rose-tinted glasses if you ask me.

There's duds in every Codex, and no Codex has been fully immune to them.

Kanluwen wrote:You mean the Ork codex with Tuska the Daemon-Killa giving a Daemon Prince of Khorne a neutering?

It's a case of rose-tinted glasses if you ask me.

There's duds in every Codex, and no Codex has been fully immune to them.

I completely agree with Kan.

As much as folks say the GK/SW/UM are OTT, all of the codexes are like that... Just look at the Ork Codex (Phil Kelly)

- Wazdakka takes out an Warlord Titan with his bike by jumping off a cliff, 'sailing through the void shields' and crashing through the command cockpit.
- Grizgutz goes back in time through the warp and kills himself. Apparently with little ill effect.
- Tuska's neutering.
- Zogwort destroyed an entire Imperial Guard company in one blast.

And people are sweatting Draigo killing a Daemon Prince or two? Serious...