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xXSir MontyXx wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:I agree that Tau aren't a threat now, but in say, 2000 years, they will be a pretty big problem. A major offensive against them crushed, they advance in tech extremely fast compared to the IoM. It isn't the Tau themselves, but the whole Empire. Their ideas of freedom, peace and harmony (admittedly being gained through war) attract many other alien empires who join them, not metioning Humans. So I reckon that they are roughly placed here: Chaos, Orks, 'Nids, 'Crons, Tau Empire

EDIT: Fix'd typos

Thats the thing, they DONT advance extremely fast. While in the warp many more years passed then what we experienced in real-space.

The IoM was block from sending more people to the T'au region because of a Warp Storm, not because T'au was stuck in a Warp Storm.

If I'm wrong, please correct/post a source that says otherwise

mega_bassist wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:I agree that Tau aren't a threat now, but in say, 2000 years, they will be a pretty big problem. A major offensive against them crushed, they advance in tech extremely fast compared to the IoM. It isn't the Tau themselves, but the whole Empire. Their ideas of freedom, peace and harmony (admittedly being gained through war) attract many other alien empires who join them, not metioning Humans. So I reckon that they are roughly placed here: Chaos, Orks, 'Nids, 'Crons, Tau Empire

EDIT: Fix'd typos

Thats the thing, they DONT advance extremely fast. While in the warp many more years passed then what we experienced in real-space.

The IoM was block from sending more people to the T'au region because of a Warp Storm, not because T'au was stuck in a Warp Storm.

If I'm wrong, please correct/post a source that says otherwise

I have heard on multiple occasions that Tau space was surrounded by a warp storm. This would have adverse effects on the time flow on the tau reality.

Currently the Tau seem to be a regional power, large enough to defend their space (200/300 systems or something around that number?) against all but the largest of crusades but not dangerous enough to warrant an effort of such size. There seem to be other alien empires of comparable size and importance if my memory works right.

Just wanted to point out that the Crusade was a measly 2 regiments, about 40-60 marines and 3 titans. Sounds more like a minor garrison then a crusade to wipe out a Xenos infestation. And the IoM was winning, even when it reached the Sept world. And the crusade was called off because the IoM realized that the Tau where an insignificant threat compared to the 'nids. Also the IoM has 40+ Thousand years worth of military experience to call upon, If there is one thing humans seem to know how to do, its kill stuff. .

Then you compare the range of weapons in the codexes to get a rough feel on how it would translate into the fluff, and something shocking comes out. The Guard OUT RANGE the Tau, when it comes to heavy weapons, and Artillery. Which you may think, "But caboose, the tau will just be more mobile, doing hit and run, negate that range advantage." Sure, but if they want to hold a world, you have to fight, and when they do commit to a battle, the sheer amount of artillery, and HW, will overwhelm them, in addition to the fact that if the HW are autocannons, which are a dime a dozen on the codex, the tau will have no way of returning fire, except through the hammerhead rail gun or ion cannon. Now this is the shooting part, the part where Tau excel. Count in the various marines that will join in, and the Tau do not stand a chance against a full scale IoM invasion.


To be fair, I like the Tau, well except for the anime feel, and the mechs,... erm... I like their infantry weapons, and their common place carapace armor. But in the end, I'll believe that their lack of experience is really going to hurt them. But if they do survive the Nidocalypse, then they might be a threat to the IoM in about 10000 years. But i doubt the fluff will advance at all anytime soon, so we will be stuck here debating which faction is better.

What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?



That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

There were forces from what, three or four other Space Marine Chapters and two Imperial Regiments there also, right? That's not really something to huff at. Plus, it was a stalemate. Both sides were putting up a great fight

mega_bassist wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

There were forces from what, three or four other Space Marine Chapters and two Imperial Regiments there also, right? That's not really something to huff at. Plus, it was a stalemate. Both sides were putting up a great fight

Well then Tau don't take jokes well.

The Tau will get their faces kicked in if a large Tyranid fleet invades their space. The Tau tactics are to defend until taking a good amount of loss then leave. Then return to orbital bombard and take the planet back. If they retreat on a full scale tyranid invasion they will have nothing to return to.

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

Yeah, even a company of marines took out at least a few hundred tau. Yeah the Tau really don't know that they suck, alot. Because they are facing a foe they think is week, they believe the imperium is big but not that big. They believe they are winning. but in fact they are just spelling their death wish.
The crusade I agree with it was a joke.

Asherian Command wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

Yeah, even a company of marines took out at least a few hundred tau. Yeah the Tau really don't know that they suck, alot. Because they are facing a foe they think is week, they believe the imperium is big but not that big. They believe they are winning. but in fact they are just spelling their death wish.
The crusade I agree with it was a joke.

If its not able to roll over the small Tau Empire its a joke haha. (By Imperium standards)

mega_bassist wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

There were forces from what, three or four other Space Marine Chapters and two Imperial Regiments there also, right? That's not really something to huff at. Plus, it was a stalemate. Both sides were putting up a great fight

The Tau were getting their faces kicked in by forces provided by 5 Space Marine Chapters(of which, the Subjugators were the 'largest contributor'. Think about that for a moment...) and two Imperial Guard Regiments.

It wasn't until the Tau diverted, as the Tau Empire Codex puts it, the full might of the Tau military to Dal'yth(a heavily populated Tau world that had a decent sized defensive force to begin with, along with orbital defense platforms) that they were able to stalemate the 'Crusade'.

To put it bluntly:
If Hive Fleet Behemoth hadn't shown up, we would have seen more Imperial forces pulled into the 'Crusade'.
The two Guard Regiments(Brimlock Dragoons) that were present were new founded regiments intended to be 'tested in the fires of righteousness' by purging the Tau influence on border worlds--the Fire Warriors that they faced, however, were fresh from a campaign of fighting Orks.

There's no contest that the Tau, who were using some 6-8k Fire Warriors(that's not counting the 16-20k Kroot auxiliaries that were likely employed), would win in a fight against some 50-60 Marines, tops, and two Guard Light Infantry Regiments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:
Yeah, even a company of marines took out at least a few hundred tau. Yeah the Tau really don't know that they suck, alot. Because they are facing a foe they think is week, they believe the imperium is big but not that big. They believe they are winning. but in fact they are just spelling their death wish.
The crusade I agree with it was a joke.

Through the entire campaign there was never "a company of Marines" in the entire theater of war.

And even that absurdly low amount of Marines required the Tau to reshuffle entire Hunter Cadres to deal with. Forces were pulled from the frontline to provide HQ security, etc.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

Yeah, even a company of marines took out at least a few hundred tau. Yeah the Tau really don't know that they suck, alot. Because they are facing a foe they think is week, they believe the imperium is big but not that big. They believe they are winning. but in fact they are just spelling their death wish.
The crusade I agree with it was a joke.

If its not able to roll over the small Tau Empire its a joke haha. (By Imperium standards)

It is a joke. Sabbot world crusades had hundreds of regiments. Lord Solar Machinius had HUNDREDS of Regiments. granted these are major crusades. The joke is that the imperium sent 2 regiments, against an entire "empire" and it was a stalemate. If they had sent 3 regiments...

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

Yeah, even a company of marines took out at least a few hundred tau. Yeah the Tau really don't know that they suck, alot. Because they are facing a foe they think is week, they believe the imperium is big but not that big. They believe they are winning. but in fact they are just spelling their death wish.
The crusade I agree with it was a joke.

If its not able to roll over the small Tau Empire its a joke haha. (By Imperium standards)

It is a joke. Sabbot world crusades had hundreds of regiments. Lord Solar Machinius had HUNDREDS of Regiments. granted these are major crusades. The joke is that the imperium sent 2 regiments, against an entire "empire" and it was a stalemate. If they had sent 3 regiments...

I admit defeat...it appears the Tau are a bunch of push-overs

mega_bassist wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

Yeah, even a company of marines took out at least a few hundred tau. Yeah the Tau really don't know that they suck, alot. Because they are facing a foe they think is week, they believe the imperium is big but not that big. They believe they are winning. but in fact they are just spelling their death wish.
The crusade I agree with it was a joke.

If its not able to roll over the small Tau Empire its a joke haha. (By Imperium standards)

It is a joke. Sabbot world crusades had hundreds of regiments. Lord Solar Machinius had HUNDREDS of Regiments. granted these are major crusades. The joke is that the imperium sent 2 regiments, against an entire "empire" and it was a stalemate. If they had sent 3 regiments...

I admit defeat...it appears the Tau are a bunch of push-overs

No not push overs just extremely outnumbered. Look at the planets. 16 vs millions...

Kanluwen wrote:

mega_bassist wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

There were forces from what, three or four other Space Marine Chapters and two Imperial Regiments there also, right? That's not really something to huff at. Plus, it was a stalemate. Both sides were putting up a great fight

The Tau were getting their faces kicked in by forces provided by 5 Space Marine Chapters(of which, the Subjugators were the 'largest contributor'. Think about that for a moment...) and two Imperial Guard Regiments.

It wasn't until the Tau diverted, as the Tau Empire Codex puts it, the full might of the Tau military to Dal'yth(a heavily populated Tau world that had a decent sized defensive force to begin with, along with orbital defense platforms) that they were able to stalemate the 'Crusade'.

To put it bluntly:
If Hive Fleet Behemoth hadn't shown up, we would have seen more Imperial forces pulled into the 'Crusade'.
The two Guard Regiments(Brimlock Dragoons) that were present were new founded regiments intended to be 'tested in the fires of righteousness' by purging the Tau influence on border worlds--the Fire Warriors that they faced, however, were fresh from a campaign of fighting Orks.

There's no contest that the Tau, who were using some 6-8k Fire Warriors(that's not counting the 16-20k Kroot auxiliaries that were likely employed), would win in a fight against some 50-60 Marines, tops, and two Guard Light Infantry Regiments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:
Yeah, even a company of marines took out at least a few hundred tau. Yeah the Tau really don't know that they suck, alot. Because they are facing a foe they think is week, they believe the imperium is big but not that big. They believe they are winning. but in fact they are just spelling their death wish.
The crusade I agree with it was a joke.

Through the entire campaign there was never "a company of Marines" in the entire theater of war.

And even that absurdly low amount of Marines required the Tau to reshuffle entire Hunter Cadres to deal with. Forces were pulled from the frontline to provide HQ security, etc.

Remember Cato Scarius he had an entire chapter of marines basically slaughter the tau,the tau didn't know there were so many Astrates in the gaxaly and didn't expect to see a freaking armada decimate their forces. then he left to fight the hive fleets.

Asherian Command wrote:
Remember Cato Scarius he had an entire chapter of marines basically slaughter the tau,the tau didn't know there were so many Astrates in the gaxaly and didn't expect to see a freaking armada decimate their forces. then he left to fight the hive fleets.

I have no clue where you're getting these numbers from. Seriously.

The closest I can find is a reference to Sicarius 'leading a Crusade consisting of forces from 30 Chapters'.

Just so we have the numbers clear:
A 'Chapter' is 1000 Marines.
A 'Company' is 100 marines.

There are 10 Companies in a Chapter. Very rarely are entire Companies deployed all at once by the various Codex Chapters.

You also just can't really get a 'Chapter worth' of Marines from 30 Chapters.

Umm, if 10 of those 30 Chapters donate a single company, you've got a whole Chapter right there.

(100 Marines x 10 Chapters) = 1000 Space Marines

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What's even funnier about the Damocles Gulf "Crusade"?

The Deathwatch: Rites of Battle book has a figure of an Imperial Fists Successor Chapter that donated a 'hefty amount of forces' to the Crusade, 'The Subjugators' Chapter.

Do you want to know how much they contributed?

Spoiler:

A squad of Marines and several armored vehicles, namely a Razorback and a few Land Speeders.

That is the kind of contribution the Damocles Crusade had from the Astartes.

I say it once, I say it again:
The Damocles Gulf Crusade was a joke.

Yeah, even a company of marines took out at least a few hundred tau. Yeah the Tau really don't know that they suck, alot. Because they are facing a foe they think is week, they believe the imperium is big but not that big. They believe they are winning. but in fact they are just spelling their death wish.
The crusade I agree with it was a joke.

If its not able to roll over the small Tau Empire its a joke haha. (By Imperium standards)

It is a joke. Sabbot world crusades had hundreds of regiments. Lord Solar Machinius had HUNDREDS of Regiments. granted these are major crusades. The joke is that the imperium sent 2 regiments, against an entire "empire" and it was a stalemate. If they had sent 3 regiments...

No argument from me, Tau are at the bottom of my list for favorite armies, tied with necrons. Im for the Imperium all the way in this debate.

Psienesis wrote:Umm, if 10 of those 30 Chapters donate a single company, you've got a whole Chapter right there.

(100 Marines x 10 Chapters) = 1000 Space Marines

One chapter Donated 3 companies and 20 terminators.

Which is a significant contribution to the war effort, make no mistake!

My previous post simply illustrates how one can pull an entire SM Chapter together from the "donations" from a given number of other Chapters. Sure, they will not be as effective or efficient as an entire, self-contained Chapter would be (what with doctrinal differences, ancient rivalries, unfamiliarity with Chapter-based tactical plans and war-fighting philosophies and such)... but, still, 1000 SMs is a devastating force to deploy on a warzone target.

Entire worlds fall to far fewer Marines, and pulling 1000 of these guys together out of 30 Chapters is not an impossible feat, especially if the will to fight these xenos is especially present in those Chapters.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

undivided wrote:Their insignificance in the grand scheme of things is the only thing that's keeping them alive.

Haha that is very VERY true.

Including the fact that they don't register in the warp, most everything would ignore them.

The biggest joke is that after that pint sized Crusade left, the Imperium left loyal men to die. Guardsmen that depended on their leaders were left to fend for themselves against an enemy that the withdrawing Crusade knew, would destroy them.

They withdrew and everyone who had been left to secure the Gulf was abandon to the mercy of xenos.

The reason Tau will never be wiped out, is because those Soldiers weren't slaughtered, they were offered a new life in the Tau Empire.
For laying down their arms in peace and accepting the greater good, they were allowed to worship the Emperor and have new lives, despite the HORRIBLE attrocites they had helped commit. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, both Tau and Human cleansed in the Damocles Gulf. Swept under the rug and forgiven, that kind of ideology will be widely accepted within even the more zealous imperial communites.

Being merciful might not sway an Ork, but it will certainly win humans to the cause. In time, many other races will stand with the Tau. Bringing new ideas and technology with them. The IoM can have whatever PR they want, the Tau Empire is only growing and their ideology is spreading.


Also, the Tau defeated an enemy at Taros larger than the one at Dal'yth, are we to assume the Entire Tau military was sent? Fluff in context, The full military might of the Tau would mean the Tau navy would of stopped the attack from even occuring. The Crusade caught the Tau by suprise, when they ran into a sept world they got stopped dead in their tracks. Aun'va has one thousand ships named after his deeds, do you think a dozen Imperial vessels could fend off that many ships? If so, goggles off.

Correct me if I'm wrong but During the 13th black crusade Tau did expand again. Didn't seem like they gave up after democules crusade. the biggest threat tau pose in my opinion would be acceptance of other races. you don't just fight tau you fight serveral species of dangerous sentiant species.

Blue goo on the heels of IG boots. Oo-rah.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The biggest joke is that after that pint sized Crusade left, the Imperium left loyal men to die. Guardsmen that depended on their leaders were left to fend for themselves against an enemy that the withdrawing Crusade knew, would destroy them.
They withdrew and everyone who had been left to secure the Gulf was abandon to the mercy of xenos.

Cite it. Go on, I'll wait.

So far, the only thing I've found that was "left to secure the Gulf" was PDF and whatever equipment the Guard couldn't bring with them.

The reason Tau will never be wiped out, is because those Soldiers weren't slaughtered, they were offered a new life in the Tau Empire.

Then why aren't the Tau fielding an entire Elysian Drop Regiment from the Taros campaign?

Oh. Right. Because 'they were offered a new life in the Tau Empire'...and they refused it. They're 'unaccounted for' at the moment, with some information pointing towards them being forced labor for the Tarosian mines and some more information pointing towards a large quantity of the prisoners having been fed to the Kroot.

So a slow death through inhumanly torturous work conditions(say what you want about the Imperium: the workers at those mines were Ogryn or Servitors. Not colonists)...or fed to the Kroot. Real great guys, those Tau are.

For laying down their arms in peace and accepting the greater good, they were allowed to worship the Emperor and have new lives, despite the HORRIBLE attrocites they had helped commit. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, both Tau and Human cleansed in the Damocles Gulf. Swept under the rug and forgiven, that kind of ideology will be widely accepted within even the more zealous imperial communites.

And anyone who even dares to think "Maybe we shouldn't have allied with the Tau" vanishes into reeducation centers maintained by the Ethereals.

The Tau are far from the 'good guys' you like to make them out to be. The Deathwatch RPG(which is 100% canon, and is supervised stringently) has made mention of them maintaining genetic research facilities in the colonies that they've overrun, where they're tampering with various biological agents to try to 'pacify' the human colonists.

Being merciful might not sway an Ork, but it will certainly win humans to the cause. In time, many other races will stand with the Tau. Bringing new ideas and technology with them. The IoM can have whatever PR they want, the Tau Empire is only growing and their ideology is spreading.

The Tau Empire's ideology is spreading, sure.

Unfortunately, the only ears listening are the ones that are being rounded up and burned by the Inquisition.

Also, the Tau defeated an enemy at Taros larger than the one at Dal'yth, are we to assume the Entire Tau military was sent?

And the Tau numbers on Taros are still unknown. So far, we've got around 6k-8k Fire Warriors on the ground(that's not counting the Air Caste support or Battlesuits, of which they were unconfirmed numbers to begin with), with 16k+ Kroot(number was guesstimated by Jervis/Warwick Kinrade in a Q&A about the Taros campaign), and about 8k traitor PDF who were in full control of planetary defenses for the opening of the campaign.
Man, those poor Tau never stood a ch...wait, what? That's more Kroot than the Guard sent for the entire campaign, of which two regiments never arrived? You're kidding me right?!

Fluff in context, The full military might of the Tau would mean the Tau navy would of stopped the attack from even occuring.

Yeahh, I'm sure the "Tau navy would have stopped the attack from even occurring".
I mean they did such a great job stopping a few Strike Cruisers, a Navy Cruiser, some armed transports, and an escort carrier.
Let's not forget that the area around Dal'yth is supposed to actually be heavily patrolled by the Tau Navy.

And that every planet the Tau possess, one of the first things they do is lock a network of defensive orbital platforms bristling with railguns, ion cannons, etc around the planet.
Clearly, they were "undefended worlds".

The Crusade caught the Tau by surprise, when they ran into a sept world they got stopped dead in their tracks.

So wait the "Crusade" can catch the Tau by surprise but if the Imperium gets caught by surprise, the Tau were "master strategists"?
Make up your mind. They're either tactical geniuses or they're idiots. You don't get to have it both ways.

And it's not like the Crusade "caught the Tau by surprise". They rolled over 13 Tau worlds, all with extensive communication networks, shipping industries, etc before they rolled up on Dal'yth.

Aun'va has one thousand ships named in for his deeds, do you think a dozen Imperial vessels could fend off that many ships? If so, goggles off.

So they're throwing their entire fleet against a dozen Imperial vessels?

Wow. Tau sure have adopted the meat grinder tactics pretty fast, I see.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, both Tau and Human cleansed in the Damocles Gulf. Swept under the rug and forgiven, that kind of ideology will be widely accepted within even the more zealous imperial communites.

You say it like its a bad thing. What part about "Purge the Alien/Heretic" did you miss?

Tau are so stupid and pitiful. IoM and space marines are amazingly beyond awesome. Oh and tau suck.

Am I doing this right? I just took a quick glace through the thread...

Welcome to Dakka!

Please try to make your posts a little more contributory/conversational. Thank you! -The Mgmt.

The Tau Codex page 11 states (i'm paraphrasing due to copyright) Imperiaum came in, pushed back the Tau, lost a "great" amount of Troops. Stalemate, and it was because that they had more important thing to do, like fighting against the 'nidocalypse, that they withdrew.

Main rule book. The Cytherain Annexation. Even after fighting and losing the battle, the catachan survivors gladly accepted the greater good... ... by taking up a long protracted Guerrilla war with no real hope of reinforcements. Thats right, the Humans would rather fight a hopeless war for the Emperor, then live as members of the Tau Empire. Oh, and apparently Firewarriors were handed there behinds to them, by guys with crappy guns, when they tried to root them out of the jungles.

Now back to earlier posts. The IG out ranges the Tau in Support weaponry and Artillery. Just to remind you beef. Which means that when the Tau do commit to battle, they have to actullay endure enemy fire just to get in range to shoot back. And lets not forget the greatest weapon the Guard has, after Courage, MANPOWER, if the 'nids hadnt appeared the Guard could have just call for reinforcements, but they didn't due to priorities. You tend to ignore the termites while there is a lion in your backyard. For that is really all the Tau are, pests to the Greater IoM. Mainly due to their small size, and lack of long range warp travel.

Your argument that the Tau are militarily superior is flawed. The Tau are attacking weakened PDF garrisons, while the real warriors of the Imperium are busy elsewhere. And as the crusade demonstrates, 2 regiments. 3 titans, and 40-60 Marines managed to invade all the way to a major phase one sept world. Then the tau, after months of fighting, the best the Tau could do is make it a stalemate. A stalemate, after having met "The full might of the Tau military." Tau Codex pg 14 Granted the marines grew to respect the skill of the warriors, if their where more then 2 regiments, the tau would have collapsed. [speculation]

Also the humans that joined the Tau were human deserters and renegades, Tau codex pg 8. Not people "abandoned" to the xenos.

Edit: As for the vessels it doesn't say Capital Ships, it says vessels, which could range from fighter and cutters, on up to capital ships. So don't assume its all capital ships.

Looking at BFG, Tau ships are vastly underequipped when compared to imperial vessels. The titans would need large cruisers to carry them, which alone are bristling with enough weaponry to blast holes in just about anything, then the marine vessels which are even better, and then the smaller vseels like frigates to accompany the fleet and the fighters...

The Tau were so unprepared and underprepared for space conflicts that they had to duct tape some heavy duty railguns to their fighters in order to do anything.

Shay Frymier wrote:Tau are so stupid and pitiful. IoM and space marines are amazingly beyond awesome. Oh and tau suck.

Am I doing this right? I just took a quick glace through the thread...

No you have to show it with Fluff, just like the rest of us DID.

Now go away Troll.