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Also isn't there something in the fluff about how the Ethereal are latent psykers who mind control the tau, or use pheromones, and that is why commander farsight broke away? I'm not sure so dont quote me on this.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:No argument from me, Tau are at the bottom of my list for favorite armies, tied with necrons. Im for the Imperium all the way in this debate.

So, you are completely biased and this isn't really to be a discussion? This "small imperial force and whooping them good because they were wimpy xenos" is bumpkiss.

Right from the codex it clearly says the humans paid dearly to push them back onto a neutral front and had completely lost all momentum. The Imperium learned nothing from the fight (because they don't prize learning from anything), while the Tau learned a lot. The 'Imperium Juggernaut' only won any victories against small, poorly manned and defended outposts (again right from the Tau codex). They didn't slaughter anything until they got bored and left for bigger fish as some here are implying.

The following battle with the Imperium has become known as the Koloth Gorge Massacre. Where the entire Imperial force sent to relieve a planet was completely wiped out to a man with few to no Tau casualties.

Shadowsun then promptly gutted at least moderately well defended systems after breaking through the border worlds that had little defense.


Look, I'll admit they aren't wiping out the Imperium any time soon. Shear numbers wins. If the Imperium could actually unite enough to want to crush them, they could. It would be a worthless victory though. Far to many key units would be expended to make it worth while with bigger threats on the horrizon. Our own history is a veritible gold mine of stories of the small massively outnumbered armies winning out or making the enemy's victory pyrrhic. Not to mention raw ideology and belief in winning plays one of the biggest roles in winning a war or battle. Which the Tau has on the Imperium in spades.

The Imperium is doomed to eventually break apart (heck, very solid arguments can be made it's already fallen a few times, as what it is now is nothing like it was in the begining or even envisoned to be, or even was at various points in it's history). Does that mean the end of mankind? No, I hardly think so.

The Imperium does not innovate, does not understand technology, is constantly at war with itself, is overly arrogant and bloated by it's own belief (more the a few Astartes chapters have been completely destroyed by non super duper chaos/tyranid/other mega baddies). I'm a pretty staunch pro-human guy in anything sci-fi, 40k included. However the Tau are a real and credible threat, down the road. Because they will be ignored, their weapons are superior even today, they do innovate, they do allow for people to maintain and retain their own belief structures (as long as they fall in with the greater good)...

Man will survive, and ultimately I'd be surprised if the Tau won the whole thing. I don't care for their ideology, I'm not an anime freak, and I really only play them as a way to field 'mobile infantry' in a 40k setting.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Also isn't there something in the fluff about how the Ethereal are latent psykers who mind control the tau, or use pheromones, and that is why commander farsight broke away? I'm not sure so dont quote me on this.

The 4th ed. codex hints at this. Remember though, fluff is suppose to be from an imperial viewpoint and it is always up to the player to draw their own conclusions.

Might was well put up the apposing veiwpoint. A lot of stuff to go through in a fast moving thread, so I'll start a bullet list with some of the things that really grind my gears.

1.deserters of the imperium
The majority of the taros mining crews that joined the tau empire were in fact humans. It's rather obviously stated in the imperial armor as such. especially when you review the rules.

oh and the tau auxiliary, which aren't used because of that little issue of being six points each...no special weapons...and every single imperium of man player gaining preferred enemy (you)...or furious charge, I can never remember.


2.air force

I'd just like to say, the titans were withdrawn from taros after one was destroyed by a tau tigershark's rail cannons. the tau air force would be a very serious matter, if it wasn't all functionally ground attack craft. of varying effectiveness with no truly effective air-fighting capability

3. tau fleet and fringe planets

the tau had functionality no real military fleet until taros, they expected to just put up with some pirates and raiders occasionally but never anything that would come
even close an imperial warship. as such the "lightly defended planets". would be..."lightly defended planets." the IoM would surround these planets then lay siege to isolated outposts with lance and conventional weapons batteries that depending on your fluff may or may not destroy continents.

the only thing that was half a threat to these ships were the "hero class" a rushed battleship designed just to give them something to fight back with, and they only had a handful of ships large enough or useful enough to give them the slightest chance of actually accomplishing anything in a fleet action. it wasn't until taros that they had a fleet that could fight on reasonable grounds.

4. deathwatch

sure, it's cannon and it's a great system. but everybody and their mother who have participated in it have killed at least a dozen demon princes and a few thousand tyranids. A score of marines in deathwatch is going to chew through anything less then cadia without a sweat.

Edit:Reread some of the thread, corrected some typos, not too well though out of a post I say. I react poorly in these situations

Right now Tau are insignificant. If they continue to improve their technology they could become a very serious threat within a few millenia.

Amaya wrote:Right now Tau are insignificant. If they continue to improve their technology they could become a very serious threat within a few millenia.

Well then we both know that's not happening.

It's been M41 since '87, right?

The cain books mention upto 140ish M42.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:
Also the humans that joined the Tau were human deserters and renegades, Tau codex pg 8. Not people "abandoned" to the xenos.

And still Tau use them as expendable solders, not much difference in comparison to the Imperium. When they fight for the Imperium they fight for their own race, as Gue'vesa they are fighting for race that promises good but giving crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
The following battle with the Imperium has become known as the Koloth Gorge Massacre. Where the entire Imperial force sent to relieve a planet was completely wiped out to a man with few to no Tau casualties.

You mean when the Imperium send Captain Taelos to do the peace talks and the Tau attack him and his man? I to would suffer heavy losses if pinned down on open terrain by hundreds of enemies on their world...!? In addition, he was there to persuade the Tau to let Vostroyans retreat, Tau attack him and slaughter the Vostroyans. Man, how they where eager to talk later when Black Templars kick their asses

I feel this is a great read about the DGC and is well sourced at the end. It isn't biased and gives a fair account of the Crusade from interesting perspectives.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Damocles_Gulf_Crusade




Tau are not easy to wage war against. It's easy to say they suck and lose, but their combat record shows the opposite. What can be sure is that the Tau underwent a strange learning curve fighting the IoM as did the Imperium. Saying the Tau are outranged in Fluff is silly. Skyrays, Broadsides, and Hammerheads, Crisis Suits all have exceptional range with the weapons they carry. The two forces are very similar in a lot of ways with technology and doctrine being the two most different factors.


Also, the old Chapter approved human Aux allowed the use of Cadian models to represent the captured remants of the DGC Kan. While the rules were thrown in the new Tau dex, it is in keeping with the local PDFs being wiped out due to being deemed heretical, along with the Governors for siding with the Tau Empire.

As for this whole Ethereals are evil thing, they give you an option to join the empire and live in peace. If you refuse you are a POW, if the war is over you are imprisoned. How is that unfair? No offense, but if you lost and didn't surrender you're still an enemy combatant, in war you dying isn't unjust.


Call Tau worthless all you want guys. Fact is, they aren't. Their ideology is amazing as proganda and their weapons are beyond what the bulk of the Imperium has. A team of broadsides can easily poke holes in a baneblade. A couple teams and you will have Baneblades popping wholesale. And what it takes to make a Baneblade vs a couple infantry in a battlesuit doesn't add up well for the Baneblade.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:I feel this is a great read about the DGC and is well sourced at the end. It isn't biased and gives a fair account of the Crusade from interesting perspectives.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Damocles_Gulf_Crusade

I also use the Lexicanum: http://www.lexicanum.com/

Tau are not easy to wage war against. It's easy to say they suck and lose, but their combat record shows the opposite. What can be sure is that the Tau underwent a strange learning curve fighting the IoM as did the Imperium. Saying the Tau are outranged in Fluff is silly. Skyrays, Broadsides, and Hammerheads, Crisis Suits all have exceptional range with the weapons they carry. The two forces are very similar in a lot of ways with technology and doctrine being the two most different factors.

Stated as FACT by using the Tau and IG codexs. Most IG support weapons have 36-48 inch range. Tau weapons with the except of the rail guns, ion cannons and the missiles, and some kroot gun. They have a 30-36 inch cut off. As for the Long Range Artillery, the IG wins hands down, The Basilisks Have 1-36 inch direct fire and 36-240 indirect fire with barrage. The only tau equivalent is the missile with unlimited range. that doesnt have barrage if i recall correctly. [don't have access to friends codex]

Also, the old Chapter approved human Aux allowed the use of Cadian models to represent the captured remants of the DGC Kan. While the rules were thrown in the new Tau dex, it is in keeping with the local PDFs being wiped out due to being deemed heretical, along with the Governors for siding with the Tau Empire.

I was commenting on your comments that the IoM left a lot of forces behind in the DGC.

As for this whole Ethereals are evil thing, they give you an option to join the empire and live in peace. If you refuse you are a POW, if the war is over you are imprisoned. How is that unfair? No offense, but if you lost and didn't surrender you're still an enemy combatant, in war you dying isn't unjust.

There is hints that the Tau are somehow influenced by the Ethereals, either by mind control or pheromones. Which could explain how a very regid caste society manages to work together and advance in only 3000 years to the state they are now.

Call Tau worthless all you want guys. Fact is, they aren't. Their ideology is amazing as proganda and their weapons are beyond what the bulk of the Imperium has. A team of broadsides can easily poke holes in a baneblade. A couple teams and you will have Baneblades popping wholesale. And what it takes to make a Baneblade vs a couple infantry in a battlesuit doesn't add up well for the Baneblade.

Same could be said about Devestators armed with Lascannons. But I never said the Tau are worthless, just they would lose in a fight against the FULL might of the IoM.

Not saying anyone is a nazi but the Tau could be compared to Nazi Germany in WW2. They had superior leadership on average, and better training. IoM could be considered the Soviet Union, with varying degrees of leadership, but a whole lot more manpower, and better tanks. And the rest is history...

Now what your not considering is how the Space marines fight. Alot like the Tau, using precession strikes, while armored better then the Tau. Basically the Marines are the Rapier to the IG Hammer. Also remember Quantity is a Quality all of its own.

Edit: When i say support i mean Heavy Weapons, The Autocannon, Lascannon, and missile launchers have 48 inch. And Heavy Bolters Plama Cannons, and Multilasers have 36 inch. If a patrol of Firewarriors in a devilfish met a patrol of Guardsmen in a Chimera, the Chimera out ranges them. 36 ML and HB compared to 18 Burst cannon and the the fire warriors 30 inch pulse rifles [which cant be fired with out disembarking.] And even if they close the Chimer has a greater chance of glancing with its str6 ml then the str 5 bc. This assumes standard models with no upgrades. I give the edge to IG due to longer range and better str of the ML.

2nd Edit for typos.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Tau are not easy to wage war against. It's easy to say they suck and lose, but their combat record shows the opposite. What can be sure is that the Tau underwent a strange learning curve fighting the IoM as did the Imperium. Saying the Tau are outranged in Fluff is silly. Skyrays, Broadsides, and Hammerheads, Crisis Suits all have exceptional range with the weapons they carry. The two forces are very similar in a lot of ways with technology and doctrine being the two most different factors.

We never said that they are weak, that they suck and lose. Tau are strong force when they have the formation and when they are flanking. But you said that in all open war Tau would defeat the Imperium, which is impossible. And you then stated that they could defeat EVERYONE else: Orks, Eldar, Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids... And that they can enter in the EoT and kill Chaos Gods... To you Tau looks like Chuck Norris clones than an alien race
But in all seriousness, Tau cannot match the Imperium in any way - even in technology. And range fluff is right, just see Autocannon, Lasscannon and Plasmacannon. And Imperial main doctrone is both for melle and range combat ( Lasgun + bayonet or Bolter + power sword ).

Also, the old Chapter approved human Aux allowed the use of Cadian models to represent the captured remants of the DGC Kan. While the rules were thrown in the new Tau dex, it is in keeping with the local PDFs being wiped out due to being deemed heretical, along with the Governors for siding with the Tau Empire.

As for this whole Ethereals are evil thing, they give you an option to join the empire and live in peace. If you refuse you are a POW, if the war is over you are imprisoned. How is that unfair? No offense, but if you lost and didn't surrender you're still an enemy combatant, in war you dying isn't unjust.

Ah, just like in USSR: "We are all equal, we are an empire and live in peace". Then you state: "but can I go in America?" or "can I start private business?" and you get shot in the head. And we all see on Taros how unfair is Tau - they give you all the rock in the galaxy that you can mine. And shot you when you sit to rest for a minute. Don't be fooled BEaf, Tau are worst than the Imperium when it comes to ideology and methods of spreading it ( give POW to Kroot as food, pacifying Humans - even the Gue'vesa, taking over poorly dependable worlds etc...). Tau look more like the Borg than the Federation...

Call Tau worthless all you want guys. Fact is, they aren't. Their ideology is amazing as proganda and their weapons are beyond what the bulk of the Imperium has. A team of broadsides can easily poke holes in a baneblade. A couple teams and you will have Baneblades popping wholesale. And what it takes to make a Baneblade vs a couple infantry in a battlesuit doesn't add up well for the Baneblade.

One word: Terminators ( supermega armor + chainfist + assault bolter + thunder hammer + power shield + powerfist + assault cannon + teleport + 2+ armor save ).
And a few more: Nimbosa, Kronus, Kaurava, Targa, Zeist, Gravalax...
And 2 Guardsman with missile launcher can take down Hammerhead gunship in the same manner few battle suits can take down Baneblade. And tanks NEVER go into battle without infantry support. And Tau never face the full force of the Inquisition, Tau never faced Grey Knights, or Imperator Titan, or full might of the Imperial Guard ( Solar had thousands of Regiments under his command ). Or a full might of Black Templar Crusade force ( 3000 Astartes ), or a full Ork WARGHHHH ( like Imperium on Armageddon, or full Chaos attack ( like Black Crusade ), or full power of Tyranid attack ( Battle for Macragge ), or full Necron rising ( Damnos incident ). Or beeing in full out galactic civil war ( Horus Heresy ).
In comparison to the Imperium, Tau are just little kids playing with toys...

Considering tau are supposedly on their fourth sphere of expansion as of GW's latest tau related campaign, I'm sure that nimbossa is going to change hands in the next few years again anyways. but tau sure do love giving ground.

I want to see what the tau actually do to those humans in new fluff, beyond that totally out of character "GRIMDARK MODE+5" sterilizing the population kill their women burn their children BS. seems more then a bit of lazy writing to do this to the totally cooperative humans, who could become the tau empire's greatest resource, but allow the nissacar and others, who actively fought against the tau as an organised group, to grow and thrive in the tau empire at the same time..

Yeah and a Guardsmen with a missile launcher is a LOT cheaper then a crisis or broadside suit and a pilot. The money spent training him or her for the suit. The years it takes to actually become a crisis then broadside suit pilot. IoM can win a war of attrition, the Tau can't.

iproxtaco wrote:

To become an actual player in the Universe the Tau need to do several things:

Solve their FTL crisis. Expanding beyond a few systems will be impossible without it.

Totally. They should borrow some technology from the Kroot or Demiurg.

iproxtaco wrote:Become more Militarised. They have the advanced technology at an infantry and almost at a vehicular level but they need it on a fleet and air level, and they need large mechanized capability to combat titans. They also need large scale deployment of troops. Being outnumbered by races as advanced or even more so than them on a regular basis is not good enough.

The Tau already have advanced fleet and air weapons. For example, the Manta is their answer to Titans.

The IoM outnumbers everyone and always will. The way for the Tau to beat this is to convert IoM worlds to their side.

iproxtaco wrote:Find a way of creating a loyal command base that doesn't rely on the Ethereals. Rebellions and dissent will be inevitable without regular Ethereal presence and its unlikely they can get enough of them to cover every world the Tau would want to conquer if they ever get to that point.

There's no reason to suppose that dissent will be inevitable without Ethereal presence. None of the allied races care about Ethereals anyway.

However all this is pointless since the timeline does not advance.

Brother Coa wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Tau are not easy to wage war against. It's easy to say they suck and lose, but their combat record shows the opposite. What can be sure is that the Tau underwent a strange learning curve fighting the IoM as did the Imperium. Saying the Tau are outranged in Fluff is silly. Skyrays, Broadsides, and Hammerheads, Crisis Suits all have exceptional range with the weapons they carry. The two forces are very similar in a lot of ways with technology and doctrine being the two most different factors.

We never said that they are weak, that they suck and lose. Tau are strong force when they have the formation and when they are flanking. But you said that in all open war Tau would defeat the Imperium, which is impossible. And you then stated that they could defeat EVERYONE else: Orks, Eldar, Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids... And that they can enter in the EoT and kill Chaos Gods... To you Tau looks like Chuck Norris clones than an alien race
But in all seriousness, Tau cannot match the Imperium in any way - even in technology. And range fluff is right, just see Autocannon, Lasscannon and Plasmacannon. And Imperial main doctrone is both for melle and range combat ( Lasgun + bayonet or Bolter + power sword ).

Ah, just like in USSR: "We are all equal, we are an empire and live in peace". Then you state: "but can I go in America?" or "can I start private business?" and you get shot in the head. And we all see on Taros how unfair is Tau - they give you all the rock in the galaxy that you can mine. And shot you when you sit to rest for a minute. Don't be fooled BEaf, Tau are worst than the Imperium when it comes to ideology and methods of spreading it ( give POW to Kroot as food, pacifying Humans - even the Gue'vesa, taking over poorly dependable worlds etc...). Tau look more like the Borg than the Federation...

Call Tau worthless all you want guys. Fact is, they aren't. Their ideology is amazing as proganda and their weapons are beyond what the bulk of the Imperium has. A team of broadsides can easily poke holes in a baneblade. A couple teams and you will have Baneblades popping wholesale. And what it takes to make a Baneblade vs a couple infantry in a battlesuit doesn't add up well for the Baneblade.

One word: Terminators ( supermega armor + chainfist + assault bolter + thunder hammer + power shield + powerfist + assault cannon + teleport + 2+ armor save ).
And a few more: Nimbosa, Kronus, Kaurava, Targa, Zeist, Gravalax...
And 2 Guardsman with missile launcher can take down Hammerhead gunship in the same manner few battle suits can take down Baneblade. And tanks NEVER go into battle without infantry support. And Tau never face the full force of the Inquisition, Tau never faced Grey Knights, or Imperator Titan, or full might of the Imperial Guard ( Solar had thousands of Regiments under his command ). Or a full might of Black Templar Crusade force ( 3000 Astartes ), or a full Ork WARGHHHH ( like Imperium on Armageddon, or full Chaos attack ( like Black Crusade ), or full power of Tyranid attack ( Battle for Macragge ), or full Necron rising ( Damnos incident ). Or beeing in full out galactic civil war ( Horus Heresy ).
In comparison to the Imperium, Tau are just little kids playing with toys...

It's stated and clearly written in the codex and painfully explained in other sources that tau technology often matches and exceeds imperial design, and they don't really kill people for no reason, at least not yet. they are not a communist state and it's not a fascist dictatorship either. all the unreasonable decisions so far are made by either an ethereal or commander brightsword

the grey knights use aliens as their auxiliaries, considering mat ward sure they would love to have the tau join them

and fluff wise, I doubt the titan legos would ever risk another titan if it was anything less then an Imperator. the IG pretty much lost titan support on taros

On taros, tanks did go into battle without infantry support, it was the largest tank battle the tau ever got involved in too. I'm surprised you forgot.

but yes, they are small, and they are in a corner. so most of the threats you listed will never happen in the current state of the tau, because they are currently irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, Tau tech is better then the IoM in ways. The IoM has a brutal simplicity when it comes to tech. But the fact is that when it comes to heavy weapons the IoM has a significant edge range wise. And this isn't fluff. Its cold hard codex facts. I know the ranges don't translate very well, but its good enough to see what has a longer range.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Solve their FTL crisis. Expanding beyond a few systems will be impossible without it.

well, according the BFG they have FTL, "warp skimming". as I recall it's on average 1\5th the speed but more reliable for when you want to show up at a set place in a set time. which is how they even got to the third sphere of expansion anyways.

and I recall reading that the ion cannon is demiurg tech, but I can't cite it to save my life.

Raze wrote:
the grey knights use aliens as their auxiliaries, considering mat ward sure they would love to have the tau join them

That's the Deathwatch, and they are allies with Eldar, not Tau. Tau never meet Grey Knight, or at least they didn't leave long enought to tell about it...

but yes, they are small, and they are in a corner. so most of the threats you listed will never happen in the current state of the tau, because they are currently irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.

You just wait and see, when GW drop new codex where Tau are fighting 'nids, 'crons and Orks all together.
And you are right, you Tau are so small:

Brother Coa wrote:

Raze wrote:
the grey knights use aliens as their auxiliaries, considering mat ward sure they would love to have the tau join them

That's the Deathwatch, and they are allies with Eldar, not Tau. Tau never meet Grey Knight, or at least they didn't leave long enought to tell about it...

*cough* space monkey *cough*

edit: actually, does anybody remember that stealth device the deathwatch use in the RPG book?, the one based off the tau stealth technology? sure is fun being a deathwatch tech-marine around them tau.

Raze wrote:
*cough* space monkey *cough*

Last I checked - you are Human to. Space Monkey

Noir wrote:

Shay Frymier wrote:Tau are so stupid and pitiful. IoM and space marines are amazingly beyond awesome. Oh and tau suck.

Am I doing this right? I just took a quick glace through the thread...

No you have to show it with Fluff, just like the rest of us DID.

Now go away Troll.

He is new and was warned by the mod's. Give him a break, but yeah just say something less "troll-like" next time.

Anyways, if the Tau were to maybe defeat a fully equipped and defended fortress world they would get my attention. Until then I am nowhere near believing that they are a threat to the Imperium.

There is the fact however that each Tau is equipped better than the average guardsman. This is true.... this id due however, to the fact that their forces are TONS smaller than the Imperium's. What is better equipped? A massive U.S. invasion force trained in basic hand to hand and shooting techniques, or a Special forces unit that is much smaller and doesnt take NEARLY as much money to equip with good equipment and the best training due to their small number? This is blatantly obvious when you observe the IG and Space Marines.

So, view the Tau as space marines and the Imperium as the IG in this situation. (I am not saying Tau are as good as space marines, just the size and equipment factor.)

BeefCakeSoup wrote:I feel this is a great read about the DGC and is well sourced at the end. It isn't biased and gives a fair account of the Crusade from interesting perspectives.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Damocles_Gulf_Crusade




Tau are not easy to wage war against. It's easy to say they suck and lose, but their combat record shows the opposite. What can be sure is that the Tau underwent a strange learning curve fighting the IoM as did the Imperium. Saying the Tau are outranged in Fluff is silly. Skyrays, Broadsides, and Hammerheads, Crisis Suits all have exceptional range with the weapons they carry. The two forces are very similar in a lot of ways with technology and doctrine being the two most different factors.


Also, the old Chapter approved human Aux allowed the use of Cadian models to represent the captured remants of the DGC Kan. While the rules were thrown in the new Tau dex, it is in keeping with the local PDFs being wiped out due to being deemed heretical, along with the Governors for siding with the Tau Empire.

As for this whole Ethereals are evil thing, they give you an option to join the empire and live in peace. If you refuse you are a POW, if the war is over you are imprisoned. How is that unfair? No offense, but if you lost and didn't surrender you're still an enemy combatant, in war you dying isn't unjust.


Call Tau worthless all you want guys. Fact is, they aren't. Their ideology is amazing as proganda and their weapons are beyond what the bulk of the Imperium has. A team of broadsides can easily poke holes in a baneblade. A couple teams and you will have Baneblades popping wholesale. And what it takes to make a Baneblade vs a couple infantry in a battlesuit doesn't add up well for the Baneblade.

you keep forgeting their space craft suck. Serioiusly only 6 ships vs the entire Tau Defense fleets, WERE DECIMATED. By 6 ships, a Strike Vessel, a couple of escorts, A Battle Barge, A Cargo ship, and an Imperial Naval ship.

Sorry, but in the world of 40k Space Warfare controls the board not the ground support, the imperium decimates most of their enemies by beating the gak out of their forces before they even know it. Imperial Naval Warfare is shooting from like worlds away not the tau's up close and personnel. The Imperium is just ignoring the Tau because they literally have not ever faced a Full Space Marine Crusade. Hell They weren't able to stop a small one, that was a joke. The Imperium also has deployed Tau technology with their Deathwatch.
Just face it the Imperium would win in a Real stand-up fight.

Imperial battles are massive, the largest tau battle was the Zeist Campagin. Which they got owned in, by scarius and 30 chapters. The tau pissed off the Imperium by attacking a forge world, they arrived killed all the tau rinse repeat. They barely lost any naval ships. Read the Zeist Campaign.

You also can't forget what happened in the Cities of Death Book were it was Vostryan's First Born regiment which almost won. After they killed their leader and beat him to death with his own arm.

Sorry Dude to break it to you.... but the Tau are not chuck norris they are just aliens that will never face the full power of the Imperium, if they do anything stupid like attack the Forgeworld again. They Are ed like the Scythians vs the Crimson Fists.

Kilkrazy wrote:
However all this is pointless since the timeline does not advance.

Therefore, all arguments pertaining to; "The Tau will be able to defeat the Imperium\become a large superpower in the galaxy\do something of some significance, in X number of years" are rendered invalid.

Asherian Command wrote:you keep forgeting their space craft suck. Serioiusly only 6 ships vs the entire Tau Defense fleets, WERE DECIMATED. By 6 ships, a Strike Vessel, a couple of escorts, A Battle Barge, A Cargo ship, and an Imperial Naval ship.

Sorry, but in the world of 40k Space Warfare controls the board not the ground support, the imperium decimates most of their enemies by beating the gak out of their forces before they even know it. Imperial Naval Warfare is shooting from like worlds away not the tau's up close and personnel. The Imperium is just ignoring the Tau because they literally have not ever faced a Full Space Marine Crusade. Hell They weren't able to stop a small one, that was a joke. The Imperium also has deployed Tau technology with their Deathwatch.
Just face it the Imperium would win in a Real stand-up fight.

Imperial battles are massive, the largest tau battle was the Zeist Campagin. Which they got owned in, by scarius and 30 chapters. The tau pissed off the Imperium by attacking a forge world, they arrived killed all the tau rinse repeat. They barely lost any naval ships. Read the Zeist Campaign.

You also can't forget what happened in the Cities of Death Book were it was Vostryan's First Born regiment which almost won. After they killed their leader and beat him to death with his own arm.

Sorry Dude to break it to you.... but the Tau are not chuck norris they are just aliens that will never face the full power of the Imperium, if they do anything stupid like attack the Forgeworld again. They Are ed like the Scythians vs the Crimson Fists.

Tau Fleet has improved in recent years at least, they learned from the weaknesses displayed against Imperial Ships and have come out with a new generation of Warships: the Custodian Class Assault Carrier, Emissary Class Cruiser, Castellan Class Frigate, and so on.

Tau rapid adaptability could be considered to be a future threat I guess, but again until they fix their long-distance space travel and population problems they won't become anything more than a regional threat.

As for what destroying the Tau Empire would entail, considering they've learned and adjusted themselves since the Damocles Gulf Crusade and considering how viciously they would fight in their core worlds, it'd probably take a rather huge Imperial Force. I'm not talking 13th Black Crusade-level forces, but still a far larger Task Force then they usually deploy for xenocide campaigns.

I agree, look at WWII. The Russians steamrolled through the German lines because they were willing to take losses and throw themselves at the German guns.

(Nobody better start making this thread about Nazi's now!!!!!!!)

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Yeah, Tau tech is better then the IoM in ways. The IoM has a brutal simplicity when it comes to tech. But the fact is that when it comes to heavy weapons the IoM has a significant edge range wise. And this isn't fluff. Its cold hard codex facts. I know the ranges don't translate very well, but its good enough to see what has a longer range.

Only due to game balance. A Railgun is shooting something as close to lightspeed as you can get it. A modern human railgun (in theory, as we can't actually prove the navy has them) can put a shell out to 12 miles with about an inch in drop.

Effectively it's a line of sight weapon, and only has a shorter range in the respect it's not a lobbed weapon.

Alternatively, if you want pure codex, Tau seeker missles > everything as they are unlimited range weapons.

rovian wrote:
t-34 are american designed

I always thought that an american designed them, not that they were american designed.

IIRC the US military rejected the design (or was it the British?) when it was presented to them after WW1 and he then had to take it to Russia, as they were the only ones interested.

Sorry I've taken it OT. Ooops

Cheers

Andrew

"Meh. GW will probably retcon the all the current fluff and make the Tau empire be 1/3 of all space in the next codex for all we know.

Commander Farsight will carve his name on the heart of some chaos god or something equally silly. "

Thank you , You've made my weekend!

ITT: IoM players use propaganda laden fluff written from an IoM point of view to prove an IoM point.

Aren't their Demon Heart's you should be carving "Spess Mehreens wuz here" into?

All jokes aside though, this arguement is pointless. It boils down to this.

IoM: We have zillions of people with zillions of ancient guns and tanks. Also, magical spirits drive our tanks (windows 95).

Tau: We have thousands of 5'2" space hippies with thousands of amazing guns that we designed recently. Also, don't talk bad about the Ethereals.

So, from reading all the posts, this is what I gather:

1. The Tau will lose against the IoM if a full-sized Crusade would happen right now

2. With total numbers aside, the IoM (and fellow Dakkites) acknowledge Tau ground forces are a quick learning/adapting and dangerous enemy.

3. Tau Navy is advancing, but still not a viable threat - IoM can still pwn them w/o a seconds thought

4. The Greater Good is accepted by regegades/dissidents, but normal "citizens" and troops of the IoM are still devoted to Teh Emporah no matter what