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Malifaux typically has very standard proportions, I can see that turning some people off, but I prefer it. I don't really see why every WM/H model needs to have giant hands and a tiny head.

I tried Warmachine way back before they put Hordes out. I didn't like the game at all.

1) The models (I tried the Cryx faction because I generally prefer the undead and chaosy factions.) They were a miserable experience putting together.

2) The game system. It really just felt like I was playing Magic the Gathering with a few models to push around.

3) I liked that the game was all about the Warjacks, until it started being "all about the warjacks that were strictly inferior to every new infaqntry unit that came down the pipe."

4) The models have gotten dumber looking as time went on.

5) Most of all: The local players were all toolbags. I don't play for WAAC gaming. Never have, never will. These guys were the absolute definition of "that guy". I also didn't appreciate the "oh, you play GW. You're Bad" mentality that comes from the Warmachine camp. Ok. That's nice. I'm bad for liking a bad game/company. Honestly, I'd rather be associated with a bad game, than be associated with terrible people.

themocaw wrote:As a Warmahordes player myself, all I can say is: that's fine.

Er, thanks for your approval?

Yeah, I realize it's fine for people to have different opinions. That's kind of the point of this thread. There are a ton of threads about how awful GW is right now and a lot of folks are saying PP is a great alternative. Maybe as a company they are -- I dunno, really. At least they tell us what's coming up. Then again, I haven't seen any "battlejacks" sold by CHS yet. But the point is that PP, Malifaux, and Infinity (et alia) aren't really alternatives at all for some of us.

Manchu wrote:

themocaw wrote:As a Warmahordes player myself, all I can say is: that's fine.

Er, thanks for your approval?

You're welcome.

Seriously, though: if you're approaching Warmachine with the expectations that you'll get the same things out of it as 40k, you're doing it wrong. The game encourages, nay, idealizes dirty tricks and overpowered combinations. I think of 40k as a game of baseball and Warmahordes as more like playing hockey in sudden death overtime. It's kinda facetious to think that since you like baseball, you'll also enjoy hockey.

I guess what i'm trying to say is: I agree with you, sir.

@themocaw: Yeah, that's exactly the point. Just because you are frustrated with GW you can't expect to switch over to PP and suddenly be satisfied.

Not to derail your thread Manchu,but one of Kans comments got me thinking...
Whatever became of the Starship Troopers game?...don't see a great deal of info on it.

Mongoose has discontinued it altogether. I think that was in 2008.

I know what you mean Manchu, but if you leave GW you don't have to go with Warmahordes, Malifaux or one of the other major games.

I've decided i've had enough of GW but I don't enjoy games that make you play with named characters (I feel it restricts what fluff I can create which is a big part fo me) so a lot of the obvious non GW games are out. However with a bit of searching I've found lots of suitable games. It may be harder to find but there will be a game that is what your looking for.

I think that the initial waves of Warmachine looked the best.

In the early days it seemed that the game might really focus on the whole "steampunk" vibe and play it up. However as more and more releases have taken place this has been dilluted by things like the Retribution and the whole of Hordes, etc.

I'd like more of a focus on gears and boilers and steam power, etc. but the vision for the Ik has slowly moved away from that in many ways, and my infatuation with the game has waned in relation...

FITZZ wrote: Not to derail your thread Manchu,but one of Kans comments got me thinking...
Whatever became of the Starship Troopers game?...don't see a great deal of info on it.

Mongoose dropped it (along with allot of other things) when they found that they couldn't afford to put out their umpteenth miniature war game that didn't really sell as well as they thought it would.

@4M2A: Would you mind listing a few of the games you've found? (Sharing that kind of thing is one of the best aspects of Dakka, I feel.)

And just to be clear I am not done with GW.

Manchu wrote:Lord knows I've tried. I've bought some models and painted them up, got a slew of the books, which I have poured over. I haven't managed to pick up a game but, to be honest, I don't really even want to. I recognize they're a good company with some cool ideas. But most of their miniatures look goofy to me. GW doesn't seem to have a great deal of respect for you and me and the rest of its customers. But if you don't really like PP's stuff, like I don't, then PP is not really an alternative.

There's been a lot of this sentiment buzzing around the threads criticizing GW so I wanted to post this here so there is a place where it's on-topic.

This isn't flamebaiting, folks. I'm not saying you can't like it or that it's objectively horrible. People who agree with the above, please make sure to stay polite.

To each their own.

notprop wrote:

FITZZ wrote: Not to derail your thread Manchu,but one of Kans comments got me thinking...
Whatever became of the Starship Troopers game?...don't see a great deal of info on it.

Mongoose dropped it (along with allot of other things) when they found that they couldn't afford to put out their umpteenth miniature war game that didn't really sell as well as they thought it would.

Ah..ok,but the minis and the system (as it were) still exist I assume.

Well, I've been looking for the right game for a while so the list of maybes is quite long. What sort of thing are you after? If you can come up with a list of things that attract you to a game I can probably suggest something.

I think GW models are overall amazing/outstanding/awesome. Do I like their price? Not really, but now that I'm older and am in my career I can pay for my hobby. I just don't have the time like I did when I was a teen to dedicate to it.

I think the rules for GW games are just fine (and I play in a lot of tournaments too).

Manchu wrote:Yeah, I realize it's fine for people to have different opinions. That's kind of the point of this thread. There are a ton of threads about how awful GW is right now and a lot of folks are saying PP is a great alternative. Maybe as a company they are -- I dunno, really. At least they tell us what's coming up. Then again, I haven't seen any "battlejacks" sold by CHS yet. But the point is that PP, Malifaux, and Infinity (et alia) aren't really alternatives at all for some of us.

People are complaining about the GW price increases and lack of sales to Oceania...so you started a thread to bash Privateer Press?

If you're unhappy with GW, then look around for something else. People have suggested alternatives: PP, Malifaux, Mantic, Flames of War, they all have their pros and cons. But if you're interested in a popular game that is widely available, Warmachine & Hordes and FoW seem to be the primary alternatives at the moment.

Your options are: suck it up and keep dealing with GW's (to some) distasteful actions, switch to another game, or quit the hobby.

biccat wrote:
People are complaining about the GW price increases and lack of sales to Oceania...so you started a thread to bash Privateer Press?

To be fair, I think the real thrust of the thread was to give Mr Hyena an arena to vent his considerable spleen....

Some of the models are a bit off. Swords in particular come off looking rather "Nerf-y" for lack of a better term.

I do like the overall art style in the books quite a bit, It'd be great if it carried through to some of the models more. That said, they really aren't that horrible. GW pieces are better quality though, no question.

I also really like the greater diversity in the characters. I'm actually impressed by the level of inclusion women are given, and the relative diversity of roles they're given. The game still suffers far too much from Boob Armor, Chainmail Miniskirts and Combat Hells. Still, it's a step up from GW at the very least.


I find the gameplay to be a bit more elegant, and the rules to be better and more consistently written. I dislike the inflexibility and lack of customization in how armies are put together, but it's a relatively minor complaint.

I'll probably be playing it in addition to 40k, but not in place of it.

I have to agree with this thread whole heartedly, I have looked at WarmaHordes as an alternative but every time I have tried I get stuck on the aesthetics. The minis just don't do it for me at all, any of them. Malifaux isn't so bad, there are a handfull of minis I would consider buying but again not enough for me to go steaming into the system.

Infinity looks kinda pretty, but the problem I have is that I like the feel of the GW universes. Like a smelly old dog that you can't fail to have good feelings for because of the special memories shared. I think I am going to put more effort into the 15mm WW2 games that I have tonnes of minis floating around for. Studio Mcvey are getting to the point where you could use their minis for small scraps too.

I do know that I'm going to play quite a bit of Cutlass by Black Scorpion, as I nearly have my Ork crew ready to ply the seas and relieve unfortunates of their treasures!

So on reflection? PP isn't much cheaper per mini, and I don't like them. Malifaux and Infinity have similar problems, which leaves me buying less GW minis (spending level will drop some as well as the price rise hurt).

Rogue Trader/ Necromunda style games with minis from Heresy/Hasslefree/Black Scorpion are going to recieve the majority of my hard earned, while my GW stuff will get some bits and bobs as I feel to round out armies in use. PP isn't going to get anything from me still, though at some point they might bring stuff out to tempt.

biccat wrote:People are complaining about the GW price increases and lack of sales to Oceania...so you started a thread to bash Privateer Press?

Did you read the OP? No? Okay, here it is again: a lot of folks are claiming they will quit GW in favor of PP but PP is not actually a viable alternative to GW for everyone.

I'm in agreement...don't like the models, don't like the universe, don't like the rules.



Someone find me a venture capitalist, and I'll do a mainstream game with good looking mini's, good rules, and a national tournament system.

4M2A wrote:What sort of thing are you after? If you can come up with a list of things that attract you to a game I can probably suggest something.

Well, I really like the idea and aesthetic of Necromunda. So a kind of cyberpunk skirmish game? But the Infinity look is too anime for me, if you understand what I mean. That's what I dig about Urban War/Metropolis. Again, I'm nowhere near to dropping GW stuff. But I'm always on the look out for what's out there. Like I said, that's one thing I really love about Dakka.

Manchu

I think you are being unfair with Infinity, all your other points have me nodding in agreement.

Yes, Infinity models are works of art, and of course, having the skill to paint to a high level is always going to be a benefit, but I feel you're missing the point (of Infinity).

Do you like the rules? Do you like the game play? Do you like the fluff? These are the points that really matter, not how well you can paint.

Take any game you like, the miniatures will always look better if you can paint like Angel Giraldez, the same can be said for GW miniatures.....however, has this been a factor stopping you from playing WH40K (assuming you can't paint like the Angel!)

Captain Jack wrote: Studio Mcvey are getting to the point where you could use their minis for small scraps too.

YES. This is definitely on my radar.

@ Manchu: Check out Dark Age. Its marginally "grim dark" post-apo skirmish. And the new minis are perdy.

Frankly, to each their own. I never got the love of 40K as a game past 2nd ed. Love the IP, think some of the models are awesome, but 4th and 5th just do nothing for me in terms of rules.

Privateer's games have always been quite a bit tighter and that's what I like. I'm not playing the game for immersion nor the universe and I don't care about model/unit customization. I think the minis look great and I like the rules. Works for me, but it doesn't mean I need to disparage someone who disagrees.

Delephont wrote:I think you are being unfair with Infinity, all your other points have me nodding in agreement.

Yeah, sorry for being unclear. I don't like the fluff at all. And fluff is big for me, whereas it can be meaningless for others. The videos I've watched for Infinity and the battle reports that I've read are what made me look into it, as the gameplay seemed pretty cool. So: the models seem objectively well sculpted to me (mostly) but I still don't really like them. Does that make sense? I mean, I can tell they are cool but they just aren't exciting to me.

General Hobbs wrote:
I'm in agreement...don't like the models, don't like the universe, don't like the rules.



Someone find me a venture capitalist, and I'll do a mainstream game with good looking mini's, good rules, and a national tournament system.

Had me until "tournament"

If you want ubber cool painted Infinity models you can send them away for special pro treatment. Same as with any wargame figures.

The aesthetic point applies to any game or range of models.

Personally I think the Warmachine models look like horrible. That's just my opinion. There are tons of people who love them and good luck to them. Other people hate the GiTS aesthetic of Infinity. I like it.

We are lucky there is such a wide variety of models available.

You don't have to play any set of rules with the "official" figures.

I can't help but feel there's a lot of chest thumping in this thread. If you don't like PP, then don't go to it, there's tons of other options. Just look at the news and rumors thread and all the products from the various companies there.

Manchu wrote:

Delephont wrote:I think you are being unfair with Infinity, all your other points have me nodding in agreement.

Yeah, sorry for being unclear. I don't like the fluff at all. And fluff is big for me, whereas it can be meaningless for others. The videos I've watched for Infinity and the battle reports that I've read are what made me look into it, as the gameplay seemed pretty cool. So: the models seem objectively well sculpted to me (mostly) but I still don't really like them. Does that make sense? I mean, I can tell they are cool but they just aren't exciting to me.

Thats fair enough. The fluff is about as far removed from Grim-Dark as you can get, and that is simply not going to be to everyones liking.

Have you considered MERCS? Although, if you like army building then this might not be the game for you.....and their fluff is there, but nothing as epic as WH40K or Infinity at this stage.....but on the plus side, it's early days, so this is the chance to jump onboard with a new gaming system and help shape it in a way you could never do with GW. The guys from MERCS are active on their own forums, and you can submit ideas to them for consideration.....it's a good vibe right now.

www.mercsminis.com