Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think that the original commandments are great, and while many of the latter pearls are fine advice, they lack the universal appeal that such a proclamation requires. Unless I'm mistaken, the goal of this is to provide basic advice that is 99% agreed upon by all IG vets. the later contributions, especially about fiddly armory requirements or elites, are more arguable.

What makes more sense is to have two documents: one a list of ironclad "rules", the other full of maxims ala the Tactica Imperialis, which can be interpreted in many different ways. for example:

() Demolishers should be equipt with all heavy bolters to take advantage of the mobility that all defensive weapons allows.

() Demolishers should be equpit with las/plas to provide long range anti-tank and anti-meq fire power while standing still.

Two true statements, that illustrate the different reasons behind the two most commonly accepted loadouts. Even if one is generally more accepted then the other, the fact is that either option is better then lascannon/heavy flamers, for example.

other forums try to accumulate wisdom in these long, laborious threads that seem to include more opinion then actual advice. If the IG players really want to craft a sort of "yardstick" for noobs, then I suggest we select a few vets to collect and edit advice, and then link to it somewhere. just my two cents.

Hmm, anyway we could get something stickied and locked except for 1 person to add to?

Soemthing like a revision of the original to bring it up to specs of the discussion. Stickied to the top, with someone with proven IG tactical knowledgeas the only person able to post on it?

I see what you mean by keeping the discussion from cluttering the intent. Something to think about...

"Unless I'm mistaken, the goal of this is to provide basic advice that is 99% agreed upon by all IG vets. the later contributions, especially about fiddly armory requirements or elites, are more arguable."

I agree. I'd also point out that there is a different between competitive lists and lists with every selection optimized to a razor edge.

A list can take a few sub-optimal units (Stormtroopers, and Sentinels spring to mind) and still be quite powerful, effective and able to win most of it's games.

I think the objective should largely be to point out the truly egregious wastes of points and most common mistakes. Most players want to be able to win or at least put up a good showing in most of their games. Not every player needs to design their list so they turn heads and crush egos at a GT.

@Flagg: Grenadiers isn't entirely pointless. It does let you spend 100 points on troops if you're building a very flukey army, or can provide a decent pushback unit if you're not running heavy support in some situation where allies are not allowed.

@Stu-Rat: Individual squads actually DO get to drop. I used to think the exact same way as you, but apparently there's some FAQ out there. Still, why pay 40 points for a single melta when you can quadruple the shooty for double the price? I have heard remnants are pretty good for cluttering an opponent's targetting decisions with lots of small, expendable units on whom a full squad's shooting is likely to be overkill.

I agree, It's not entirely pointless. When it comes to building flukey armies, well, I guess people shouldn't worry too much about 1-10 anyway, afterall, it is just a fluke. I do feel that there are better ways to spend those 100 points. Another line squad with a special/heavy mix. If an ST and a guardsman were to walk a runway, we'd all probably ooh and ahh the ST. On the other hand, when you lose a ST squad, you'll stare at them like the camera did with the smoked ewoks in Jedi. Lose an Infantry sqd and you'll be more like the camera when the Death Star blew and 1K's of lost there lives...oh well.

What are the best configs for Chimera? I plan to run 3 AF sqds... Wondering if I should bother with the smoke/ armor and if I should put a pintle weapon on or not... Let the discussion begin.

@Stu-Rat: Individual squads actually DO get to drop. I used to think the exact same way as you, but apparently there's some FAQ out there.
No, they don't. The FAQ refers to the Light Infantry doctrine and not at all to the Drop Troops doctrine. You have to drop the entire platoon at once unfortunately.

I love the criticism I got for apparently saying that you should never take the Las/Plas combo on the Demolisher, which I didn't. Still, there you go, people don't read before replyiing.

Hmm, anyway we could get something stickied and locked except for 1 person to add to?

Soemthing like a revision of the original to bring it up to specs of the discussion. Stickied to the top, with someone with proven IG tactical knowledgeas the only person able to post on it?

I see what you mean by keeping the discussion from cluttering the intent. Something to think about...

No offense, but you'll need to put together a bit more coherent and explorative on the subject before I'd consider pinning this post.

Chimeras...I run mine Multi Laser/Hull Heavy Bolter/Heavy Stubber with my guard army.

@ Flagg07: Hmm, anyway we could get something stickied and locked except for 1 person to add to?

Soemthing like a revision of the original to bring it up to specs of the discussion. Stickied to the top, with someone with proven IG tactical knowledgeas the only person able to post on it?

I see what you mean by keeping the discussion from cluttering the intent. Something to think about...

@ Yakface: No offense, but you'll need to put together a bit more coherent and explorative on the subject before I'd consider pinning this post.

None taken.

You'll notice I said a revision

I don't see how anything in the first 10 is incoherent. It's pretty straight forward. I guess you mean to flesh them out some? That could be done, no problem.

A prologue or something would definitely help it though.

So the answer is yes, with the proper upgrade, it could be stickied. Thanks for answering the question.

Yep. It's pretty funny that my statement about how a post would (essentially) need to be more clear was a complete jumble of the english language.


You got my point though. If someone wants to write up a very nice Imperial Guard tactica including the "commandments" of building a list, I would certainly sticky it if I felt it was well written and worthy. Alternatively, if that person was a DCM, they could also publish it as an "article" on Dakka instead.

Posted By Polonius on 02/27/2006 1:42 PM
wight-widow: Keep in mind that the LD bonus of COD only applies to that squad for morale and pinning tests, it's not a general +1 to LD.  This means that an officer with COD can't use that bonus for his Leadership special rule.  The whole rule is a bit vague, but they've FAQ'd it pretty well by now.

 

Darn. Missed that FAQ - in the Codex it just says the unit get +1 to it's OWN leadership. The way the Officer exemption is worded seems to me like they mean an Infantry squad in COD within 12" of an Officer in a squad in COD doesn't get LD10.

edit - I can't find it here http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/imperialguard/gaming/FAQ/assets/imperial_guard_faq_v4-0.pdf - do you have a link?

I actually think Stormtroopers are great for lists where you want several drop squads, but don't want to or can't spare two doctrines for drop vets, and need all your command squads for Leadership.

Posted By Stu-Rat on 03/01/2006 8:39 PM
@Stu-Rat: Individual squads actually DO get to drop. I used to think the exact same way as you, but apparently there's some FAQ out there.
No, they don't. The FAQ refers to the Light Infantry doctrine and not at all to the Drop Troops doctrine. You have to drop the entire platoon at once unfortunately.

I love the criticism I got for apparently saying that you should never take the Las/Plas combo on the Demolisher, which I didn't. Still, there you go, people don't read before replyiing.

 

Yep, that's what the rules in print would lead us to believe...I'm held the "whole platoon drops" point of view exactly for the reasons you do - because that's what it says in the rules for reserves. I'm 99% sure it was a couple of people on this forum who convinced me it was otherwise.

 

edit - right, I'm calling direct services! (ignores rumble of mockery)

Posted By wight_widow on 03/02/2006 7:10 AM
Yep, that's what the rules in print would lead us to believe...I'm held the "whole platoon drops" point of view exactly for the reasons you do - because that's what it says in the rules for reserves. I'm 99% sure it was a couple of people on this forum who convinced me it was otherwise.

Well, my thought on this is that you apply all doctrines to the individual squads, so you can have a platoon with only one drop squad... forcing you to drop it seperately from the units which can't drop.

I'm just curious about one thing: The debate about what weapons are worth it or not have been argued between grenade launcher and plasma gun, though there's another one I'm rather curious about. What about the best way to use Sniper rifles? One woul think they would be pretty good in a static squad or so to widdle down even the toughest infantry and keep them from charging up towards you, and can concentrate fire upon them.

Just wondering what everybody thought about them.

Sniper Rifles are rather useless.

1. AP - they can't hurt TMC's, or MEQ's very effectively. The shots mostly bounce off, so you need a prohibitative number of them to do much good.

2. Pinning - Most armies (Marines, Chaos, etc.) are Ld 9 or 10 minimum and are often Fearless. Pinning very rarely comes into play unless you play against Tau and Eldar a lot.


They're not effective in a generalized list - which needs the points to deal with Tyranids, MEQs and other opponents against whom Sniper Rifles are largely ineffective.

Snipers are useful against Big Targets with not-great armor. Wraithlords, C'Tan, and Greater Demons are the best examples.

If you want snipers, though, Ratlings are much better (read: cost-effective) than special weapons squads.

You got my point though. If someone wants to write up a very nice Imperial Guard tactica including the "commandments" of building a list, I would certainly sticky it if I felt it was well written and worthy. Alternatively, if that person was a DCM, they could also publish it as an "article" on Dakka instead.

Sigh, I have such a document. It's about 20 pages long in word and at best half finished.

The IG are a huge subject to tackle in any depth.

Same here

I got a page into my tactica before realizing there are IG players here much more experienced than I am. Still, I'd love to see whatever you come up with.

While 30 page tacticas have their place a 1 pager helping new players to get started, maybe supplimented by numbers and notes is desperately needed.

i like these 10 commandments.

Posted By Asmodai on 03/03/2006 1:51 PM
Sniper Rifles are rather useless.

1. AP - they can't hurt TMC's, or MEQ's very effectively. The shots mostly bounce off, so you need a prohibitative number of them to do much good.

2. Pinning - Most armies (Marines, Chaos, etc.) are Ld 9 or 10 minimum and are often Fearless. Pinning very rarely comes into play unless you play against Tau and Eldar a lot.


They're not effective in a generalized list - which needs the points to deal with Tyranids, MEQs and other opponents against whom Sniper Rifles are largely ineffective.

I got into a stupid argument over this that resulted in my ability to upload avatars being frozen, but I'll reiterate my side of the story. Internet-style TMCs typically have a 3+ save, and will likely continue to until plasma has AP3. IMHO sniper rifles are decent against all monstrous creatures. Internet TMCs, Greater Daemons, Squiggoths, C'tan, Avatars, and Wraithlords all pay for their high toughness, which the sniper rifle negates. I'll agree that they suxor (sic) against everything else - way too many points for a 36" range boltgun versus MEQs. The minimum they will do is force your Tyranid opponent to waste point upgrading his Heavy Support to 2+ save, but then you'll still be able to target his elites, who will forfeit much offensive capability to take the upgrade. (two rending claws...scary!...oh, wait, this squad has a power fist...)

edit - best snipers: Allied Kroot. Three points less than a Ratling for feildcraft - though they'll use up a precious heavy support slot. Almost always worth it in an infantry-focussed army.

edit - As for grenade launchers, the debate boils down to the question, "can and should IG infantry ever move?" If the squad has a heavy weapon, that grenade launcher is a waste. Basically they're useful only in flukey lists or in flukey environments, which isn't to say they're always bad, just that if you face MEQs and your squad stands still, you'll wish it was a plasma gun.

Honestly at this point I don't think my IG tactica will get finished.

I might open it up to Dakka and see if there's interest in contributing to it - I'll take more of an editor position and just consolidate other people's posts into a single document. Anyone feel like playing around with such a project?

Posted By Jeff on 03/06/2006 6:13 PM
Honestly at this point I don't think my IG tactica will get finished.

I might open it up to Dakka and see if there's interest in contributing to it - I'll take more of an editor position and just consolidate other people's posts into a single document. Anyone feel like playing around with such a project?

 

Maybe one or two of the real vets (i.e. not suckers like me) should do a brief review of the codex as a whole.  Start with a little foreword, the commandments, and then little blurbs on each unit and the doctrines and why the rock or or suck. 

Wow, major bump there... it's been, what, over a month since the last post?

Crap, I didn't realize.  Sorry.

I've got a partly written tactica. It's at around 30,000 words and only just up to 'Troops'. I doubt everyone would want to read through that...

BYE

I'd read it. Feel free to pm if you want.

I'll give it a read.

I wonder how many partially written IG tacticas there are out there.

Though I'm pretty much a n00b when it comes to IG, I'd definitely give it a good read, especially since I'm planning to throw together a small IG army over summer. It may not be a competitive list in the end, but it'll be fun.

CK

"I doubt everyone would want to read through that..."

you assume wrong! i'd love to read it!