Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

And what's more is your assuming that the roll would be thet average rolls.It's likely that a wraithlord will do damage on a rhino,but it is entirely likely to roll all 1s on the damage chart,then have the tank turn and run it over with a failed Death or Glory.

Deadshot wrote:And what's more is your assuming that the roll would be thet average rolls.It's likely that a wraithlord will do damage on a rhino,but it is entirely likely to roll all 1s on the damage chart,then have the tank turn and run it over with a failed Death or Glory.

So, in other words, your argument is Dice, not stats. Pretty weak argument when it comes down to a purely random cube not following likely outcomes.

When using Theoryhammer, all you have to go on is statistics.

Grey Knights currently can provide the best CC army with Purifier Spam.

You've got high armor? Cool, we have forceweapons, will get +1S and, if we pay for it, we're going first.
You're a Horde? Good thing we have a "F*%& your horde" Psychic power.
Monstrous Creature/multi-wounds? Forceweapons HO!

Not to mention that 4 units can have "Screw your army" grenades and an additional +1S Psychic Power(Take a Xenos Inq and 3 Techmarines with Rad and Suckotrok grenades).
Not to mention the Purifier squads shooting you to pieces before you even get close to them.
Not to mention fire support from underpriced and unshakable/unstunable Psyfilemens and S6 Razorbacks.

Sure a couple tailored army lists might be a hard counter to Purifiers, but that's not enough.

All very costly.Nids have very cheap units and lots of deepstrikers to get close quick and charge.Also don't forget that when facing tyranids with GK that there will be synapse creatures close by,so all the psychic test will be on 3D6,with either no perils of the warp(no double 1 or 6),1 (a double 1 or 6 and another numbe)r,or 3(treble 1 or 6)!

@lwrex that's when it gets ugly if you factor shooting in, the Purifiers if loaded out for gaming would normally have four psycannons, Halberds and psybolts.

They would get at least one round of shooting with means

Stormbolters get 12 shots, 8 hits, kill 5.5ish
Psycannons get 8 shots, 5.5 hits, kills 4.5ish

So ten gene stealers dead before assault

Cleansing flame kills 4

We assume one halberd marine fails LD vs Brood so doesnt fight.

So five Purifiers with Halberds, 10 attacks, 5 hits, 3 kills

Then four Purifiers with Psycannons, 8 attacks, 4 hit, 2 wounds, 1 kill

This leaves 1 gene stealer and 1 brood lord

Stealer 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, no kills

Brood lord, 5 attacks, 4 hits, 1 rend, 1 kill

So stealers lose by seven and break or unit takes three wounds due to fearless and goes on to lose.

In the open 10 dead stealers from shooting

4 from flare

Brood lord kills 1 purifier allocated to Psycannon.

Purifiers with Halberds and stealers simultaneous

5 stealers, 15 attacks, 13 hits, 2 rends, 3 wounds, 3 kills allocated to Halberds.

Halberds (one not fighting due to brood) kill three stealers as before

Psycannons 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds, 1 kill

Purifiers win by 4 stealers break or lose two wounds due to fearless leaving a wounded brood lord to fight vs 3 x Halberds and 3 x Psycannon purifiers. Brood lord dies.

Dark Eldar with Duke Sliscus , Reavers, Hellions and mounted Incubi, Wyches and Hekatrix Blood Brides. Deep striking the entire army with their fire support and the ability to move up in their transport and assault on the same turn if they scatter.

Haemonculi webway coven with Wracks and Grotesques and Incubi can also hurt.

Though a good grey knight player will always use it's underpriced support fire to kill any synapse in range of affecting the crucial psychic in the assault phase.

It's Orks that do bad things to grey knights when they unleash five battlewagons with death rollers full of evil intent.

Spamming armor value 14 that's perma obscured is not fun for the grey knight player. Always fun to run over passbacks and psyfledreads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In terms of raw nuisance and durability 10 x thunder hammer terminators, with their buddy vulkan and a Libby terminator with storm shield and gate of infinity are less than friendly too.

Dark Eldar. Those things are madness.

Most codices in 5th ed. have very good CC options. However, my vote would have to go to DE Wych armies.

Incubi nice and cheap for there output but do lack grenades though luckily you can buy an archon with a grenade pack to buddy up, lots of points but does help overcome that one problem.

Wyches make great tar pits more than anything.

I think Blood Angels as a well timed strike from Vanguard Veterns and sanguinary Guard in the right palce is very often crippling.

I've been seriously underwhelmed by Wyches.

Maybe it's because they don't have much in the way of Power Weapons, and I usually have Null Zone in my lists, but my Sternguard have beaten them in CC more often than not.

Deadshot wrote:And what's more is your assuming that the roll would be thet average rolls.It's likely that a wraithlord will do damage on a rhino,but it is entirely likely to roll all 1s on the damage chart,then have the tank turn and run it over with a failed Death or Glory.

Of course we're assuming average rolls. What possible other method have we got to measure the chances of something happening? When you start saying things like 'but the dice might not roll that way' then your arguement is getting weaker by the second.

Deadshot wrote:All very costly.Nids have very cheap units and lots of deepstrikers to get close quick and charge.Also don't forget that when facing tyranids with GK that there will be synapse creatures close by,so all the psychic test will be on 3D6,with either no perils of the warp(no double 1 or 6),1 (a double 1 or 6 and another numbe)r,or 3(treble 1 or 6)!

UNCLEBADTOUCH has already informed you about points values. The Purifiers come out cheaper than the Genestealers, even with over-the-top upgrades like Falchions.

L. Wrex

EDIT: Wyches need at *least* one FnP token to actually be able to stand up in CC, and an additional one (plus the charge) if they ever hope to do any damage. Bloodbrides, however, are an entirely different kettle of fish....

I still thimk as an Army,nids are the best.They don't train for it,they are made for it,designed for it,born for the very purpose!

I'm going to assume that I roll nothing but sixes, and posit that Necron Warriors with a Disruption Field are the nastiest Close Combat Unit.

Deadshot wrote:I still thimk as an Army,nids are the best.They don't train for it,they are made for it,designed for it,born for the very purpose!

This conversation is now pointless.

L. Wrex

How.The question was what is ther nastiest close combat army.I answered.I'm entitled to my opinion.

If you change the basis for discussion to one where no objective comparison is possible; that is, opinions about the fluff, it becomes kind of pointless.

When we're talking about game stats and point values we can actually work out, using math, which units are more effective.

Deadshot wrote:I still thimk as an Army,nids are the best.They don't train for it,they are made for it,designed for it,born for the very purpose!

Orks are bred for it too, and don't exactly train. They were made and designed for it.

Marines are made/designed for it, reborn for the very purpose also, post genetic tinkering. They do train as well, because training makes even a badass badder..

Daemons also fit your description..



*shrug*


Your opinion is your own, and i agree that Nids can be a beast, but the qualifier also fits other armies as well.

I'm gonna toss down that Necrons are also built for fighting, but I wouldn't ever bet on them in a CC fight '>..>

And now to contribute!

I would place my votes with a Khorne central army. Skarbrand mounted on whatever it is that he can take alongside hoards of Bloodletters. They are not going to fair well to shooting, true, but when they hit CC they are making everything run on an invul. which Always helps their odds amazingly

Definitely Nids are the best CC army

Monster Rain wrote:I'm going to assume that I roll nothing but sixes, and posit that Necron Warriors with a Disruption Field are the nastiest Close Combat Unit.

Against tanks maybe.

No, against everything. Since we aren't going off of average rolls I'm assuming that everything that I fight against will only be rolling ones.

GK, they are mean with there nemisis force weapons

So I take it Space Wolves are out of the question?

Not saying they are the nastiest but what about Templar with the re-roll to hit vow? lol

Best CC army? If you are just thinking about the units, blood angels.

Deadshot wrote:I still thimk as an Army,nids are the best.They don't train for it,they are made for it,designed for it,born for the very purpose!

Through evolution, they still maybe billions of years from perfecting. Orks were created by the brain boyz, perfected for war and ultra-violence so much so we fight each other just to fight.

DCA for the points are about as nasty as it gets.

snake wrote:Which codex provides the best assault army? The one the best at getting into combat quickly and just ripping things to shreds when there?

Blood Angels and Orks.