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Iranna wrote:

willydstyle wrote:

If you want to play 40k, stick with a theme that fits in the universe. Like I sad before, the existence of the Death Korps is not a reason to *play* real-life themed armies, it's a more suitable alternative. If you want to play a WWII army play flames of war.

Or play 40k? I seriously do not believe you are telling people that they cannot play a game of toy soldiers because of the way said soldiers are painted/modelled, more suitable or not.

Iranna.

Eh, I'm not an authority who can tell him that he *can't* play 40k. I just think that if you have a hard on for WWII Germans there are suitable alternatives (Death Korps, Steel Legion, etc.) or you can play Flames of War to *actually* be able to play the theme. I seriously do not believe that you are telling people that it's perfectly wonderful to use WWII themes in 40k.

willydstyle wrote:
Eh, I'm not an authority who can tell him that he *can't* play 40k. I just think that if you have a hard on for WWII Germans there are suitable alternatives (Death Korps, Steel Legion, etc.) or you can play Flames of War to *actually* be able to play the theme. I seriously do not believe that you are telling people that it's perfectly wonderful to use WWII themes in 40k.

Or you can model a WWII themed army?

This game is all about being free to express yourself through your models and having a fun time. If someone wants to play WWII Germany in space then let them. The DKoK models are expensive to buy and/or time consuming to greenstuff. The beauty of 40k is that everything is indeed possible.

If you really have a problem with someone's interest in WWII Germany and their way of expressing said interest then I'm afraid you may just have to suck it up.

Iranna.

I think that the idealogy of Nazizm may bug people a little... The 40k guard regiments that are based off of that period don't go about waving swastika's (even if the Imperial Aquila is just as bad, but that thing's fictional). Shall we not turn this article into the argument that every one of these Nazi themed guard army articles turn into?

Wyrmalla wrote:I think that the idealogy of Nazizm may bug people a little... The 40k guard regiments that are based off of that period don't go about waving swastika's (even if the Imperial Aquila is just as bad, but that thing's fictional). Shall we not turn this article into the argument that every one of these Nazi themed guard army articles turn into?

Indeed, you may be right.

/silenced.

Iranna.

Are some of the models still WIP? I can see a lot of variation in the skin of the troops - some are incredibly flat, while others appear to have been washed, some of latter group having been given successive highlights. Just curious if it was a matter of incompleteness, oversight, or a conscious shortcut. Either way, the overall effect is quite striking.

Honestly, I can see the draw for an army like this. I find the WWII German aesthetic rather attractive, as far as military "fashion" goes, and I think it fits into the universe as well as any of the other historical/fantasy inspirations for the various forces. Any claims to the contrary are blatantly ignoring the similar cases already rampant in the established fluff, likely on the grounds that, as an amateur "pet project," there hasn't been a concerted effort to apply a filter of invented (but intentionally evocative) symbol and name changes. Whether that's to be considered a mask of decency or a feeble stab at apparent originality is debatable.

If someone gives you flak, you can always claim that you couldn't decide between Cadians, Black Templars, and DKoK, so you went for the common ground between the three.

loving the bf109 scheme on the valk.

I just realized how ironic this whole situation is considering how brutal the imperium of man is.

Pretty nice looking although some washes can be used here and there on the infantry faces and cloth. Dudes in the second pic need it a bit more, excluding the Sarg's face.

Vehicles look excellent and don't require touch ups.


Overall, Awesome job!

Nice Origional idea for painting up guardsmen Op. I can tell that you put so much hard work and thought behind this project. You're army will fit in perfectly on the tabletop alongside other players and will not draw any unwanted attention whatsoever. I mean, who could possibly look at your army and peg you as either a skin head supporter or a misguided kid who is screaming for attention in any way that he can.

Well done sir, well done.

facepalm

Funny you should mention that cause im actually a tank mechanic for the US Army. Anyways im glad this thread didnt turn into some kind of abomination like many of its kind have in the past. I appreciate the comments and the criticism, I am also fully aware that in the panzer elite pic the troops have not been finished. There is definitely more where this came from. Maybe a buddy of mine will put up his soviet dogs. we have had a couple of WW2 guard slugfests.

Awesome army, I dont see anything wrong or morally questionable at all, Its very nice work overall

sigh, there is nothing wrong about celebrating German Military heritage. Nicely done man!

Seriously its a really nice idea doing such a painting scheme i really enjoy the ww2 themes on 40k really grim indeed!

There seems to be a lot of hate for this well executed paint scheme. Also, Red Skull is a nice addition

Its interesting to see how other people are doing WW2 armies. My local store has 3 people with various war themed armies (all IG). A Catachan Vietnam themed army, a Cadian ww2 Wehrmacht army, and a ww2 marine army based on the flag planting at Iwo Jima. Keep up the good work!

I really like this idea and the execution is awesome. They look very impressive. Well done.

I always thought Wehrmacht painted IG army would look sweet.

Good job OP, dont let the haters hate.

Good job op! Don't let anyone smack you down for this.... Most people seem to forget that the majority of German troops were not Nazi's. They were German. The Nazi Party was a political movement and the majority of the German rank and file were just troopers going to war because that is what the Gov't at the time ordered them to do.

On topic, I really like the camo scheme on the vehicles and the addition of Red Skull is pretty sweet!

I think the problem is when you include Hitler. Which the OP did in his CCS. He removed the picture afterwards, but it is clear from earlier posts that he was there.

There's a difference between celebrating German military heritage and celebrating Nazis. Hitler and Swastikas usually make that difference.

With that edit, he made it from a slightly disturbing army to a nicely done comic book derived army (red skull). But the truth is that it is still slightly disturbing in real life, since Hitler is still there.

If a guy wants to paint a Wermacht themed army, let them paint a Wermacht themed army. If they want a Hitler in there, let them have a Hitler in there. All of this political correctness can really make one sick.

Great paint job btw

(and yes, I'm an Israeli Jew and 90% of my family perished in the holocaust and I don't find this disturbing. Neither should you since 40k is a game and a lot of people tend to forget that)

Hat's off to you, adary. You just made a very good point.

htj wrote:Hat's off to you, adary. You just made a very good point.

It isn't that adary made a good point, it is that he missed the point. Not being offended by Hitler armies when you are a jew is great and all and very progressive, but doesn't make the situation any different.

It doesn't matter why he did it or why society doesn't like it; the end result is all that matters. He knows that by painting this army, putting it on the internet and playing against people that he will get a certain reaction. I am not judging that reaction either way. Personally, I don't care. I'll play anyone. Not everyone is like that and by making the army this way, he is guaranteeing to cause friction with some folks.

He made a choice to cause that friction. That's the problem. The hobby is inclusive. We all want to have fun and play games. If you are doing things intentionally that will reduce some people's fun? That's a problem.

The same would be true if you painted an army based on any other controversial topic. You know what you're doing and, whether you intend it or not, are going to gain attention and tick off your opponent.

The point being: the friction is coming from people taking offence and making the assumption that painting an army in the theme of German fascist forces is a blow for Neo-Nazism. Tell me, do you have a problem with Valhallans with red stars on their tanks? What about Praetorians with British flags?

Maybe he just likes the look of Nazis in films and games, you know, like he said. He wanted to paint a themed army and he did. It doesn't have to be an attempt to cause controversy. Nor does it follow that just because someone might find something offensive then it shouldn't be done.

htj wrote: It doesn't have to be an attempt to cause controversy.

It doesn't have to be, but seriously, you painted up a little Hitler... What did you think was going to happen?

Nor does it follow that just because someone might find something offensive then it shouldn't be done.

I absolutely agree. But on the other hand, don't be surprised and shocked when you make offensive art if people are, in fact, offended.

pretre wrote:

htj wrote: It doesn't have to be an attempt to cause controversy.

It doesn't have to be, but seriously, you painted up a little Hitler... What did you think was going to happen?

Well, I didn't... but I see what you mean. Mini-Hitler was probably done in the same spirit as the Red Skull, a cartoonish villain, a parody of the actual man. If it was done in the spirit of mocking, then I do not consider that offensive at all. Quite the reverse in fact.

Nor does it follow that just because someone might find something offensive then it shouldn't be done.

I absolutely agree. But on the other hand, don't be surprised and shocked when you make offensive art if people are, in fact, offended.

But by what measure is it offensive? Is the very concept of a WWII German soldier offensive? The cause they fought for was abominable, yes, but they were still often brave and loyal men. The atrocities committed by soldiers in the second world war were by no means limited to the Axis side, after all.

htj wrote:But by what measure is it offensive? Is the very concept of a WWII German soldier offensive? The cause they fought for was abominable, yes, but they were still often brave and loyal men. The atrocities committed by soldiers in the second world war were by no means limited to the Axis side, after all.

Yes, the concept of WWII German soldiers led by Hitler is offensive to some people. Why? Because they don't like the concept. Were they brave men who fought for a bad cause? Yes. Is the idea still repugnant to some people? Yep.

It is offensive because people find it offensive. There are some things that are just not popular in the general population and often considered offensive. You are completely free to do them, but most folks know that they are going to be unpopular. If you make that choice, you also should accept the fact that you are going to get some flak for it.

Nazi armies, Confederate Armies, Female Space Marines, etc. If you post one, you know what you're doing.

I really dislike the term offensive. The way it is used generally implies that it is an absolute, that things can be subjectively offensive. I disagree with this completely, offense is always personal. So I'll not grant that this army is offensive, but I understand that some people will be offended by it. I do not happen to agree with them.

So, on that know, are you offended by this army, pretre? This isn't meant to be a leading question, I would just like to understand your position better.

htj wrote:I really dislike the term offensive. The way it is used generally implies that it is an absolute, that things can be subjectively offensive. I disagree with this completely, offense is always personal. So I'll not grant that this army is offensive, but I understand that some people will be offended by it. I do not happen to agree with them.

Something is offensive when people will be offended by it.
Webster: causing displeasure or resentment

So, on that know, are you offended by this army, pretre? This isn't meant to be a leading question, I would just like to understand your position better.

Nope, not really. I hope that the OP is just misguided and really thinks that this is a good idea and that he isn't just an AW.

My position is that it is a bad idea because it is going to cause him nothing but grief from the general populace.

Sure, someone can find something offensive, but that doesn't make it an absolute. It is merely offensive to them, it is not universally offensive.

Interestingly, most people on this thread have not been offended by it. The nearest we've had is people saying 'people are going to be offended.'

What's an AW? Or is it not translatable due to filtering?

htj wrote:Interestingly, most people on this thread have not been offended by it. The nearest we've had is people saying 'people are going to be offended.'

Fair enough. I'm not going to argue it. I think that it is a poor choice, but whatever.

What's an AW? Or is it not translatable due to filtering?

Attention Whore. Hopefully that 's okay to post. It's a common internet abbreviation.

Well, that makes sense. I can see why you feel that way, at the least. In the long run it's always going to come down to personal responses, but we both knew that at the start of course.

Huh, that is a new one on me. The abbreviation, not the term that is. That the filter did not catch it implies that it's safe for Dakka. I won't start throwing it around though.