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it's crazy how offended people get over this i modified a few of my chimeras to look like wwII panzers and painted them like the 8th panzer, first time i played with them i got screamed at.
on topic love the paint job wish my guard looked half that good

This armor looks great and painted well been thinking off making a german ww2 ig army my self as i respec the german army it self for what it was not the nazi part and there no need to be offended by this army nazi's where evil yes but the german army it self was in its own right and military history a great thing so making a army after it is just fine and tbh the russieens after invading germany was just as bad to the germans as the ss was to the russions

I have no problem with basing an army off of the image of the German WWII army. They were an incredibly good looking fighting force. My friends and I have commented several times that if WWII was a 40k tourney, Germany would definitely win for the best presented army. Sportsmanship, not so much...

The trick in basing any army off of a historical influence is to stay stylistically similar to the source, without making it an exact replica. The reason for this is two fold. Firstly, you will avoid being in a situation where you have potentially offensive things such as swastikas and the SS icon in your army, and secondly, it will look more like your army fits in with the background of 40k.

So basically you have to straddle the line of conveying the image of your source of inspiration, while at the same time staying true to the universe where the game takes place.

That said, I think your army looks great, and definitely looks like it fits into the 40k background. My only qualm is, do I spy a swastika on the left hand shoulder pad of the officer in the second pic?
Coz if so, not cool.

Well I for one think it's a sweet army. It's ridiculous how much time people waste fighting over this stuff.

And really, if OP happens to be a nazi, why shouldn't he get to champion his cause on the tabletop?

Almarine wrote:And really, if OP happens to be a nazi, why shouldn't he get to champion his cause on the tabletop?

lol
Now that's a great quote.
So we should now champion our political views in our 40k games? Can I put 'NObama' bumper stickers on my rhinos? Maybe I'll make the Cabal of Fiscal Responsibility dark eldar army.

Yeah...

Almarine wrote:
And really, if OP happens to be a nazi, why shouldn't he get to champion his cause on the tabletop?

Because I'm sure I could quite easliy get enough people on this site together for a road trip to his house and kick his ass?

(I may be joking. Well, definitely joking about my ability to kick anyone's ass, but not my desire to do so if said claims to be a Nazi).

pretre wrote:Maybe I'll make the Cabal of Fiscal Responsibility dark eldar army.

Power from Deficit Reduction.

I'm offened that there isnt anything to be offended about.

I really like the look and feel of this army. Everything looks like it fits the theme and the nod to computer games and comic characters is great.

Good theme, cohesive paint job. It's certainly giving me ideas for the direction of my quasi Soviet/Tsarist themed IG.

Those saying the German WW2 painting scheme does not fit the 40k universe need to look deeper in the lore.

The Imperium is a "country" where if you do not follow its "leaders" (Mainly the Emperor), you, your friends, your family are going to get interrogated then killed by the inquisition. The guard are the mechanised army with tons of body to spare. They are there to capture new territory for the Imperium of Man and defend the captured territory.

The 1930s tp 1945 germany had the SS that did terrible things. If you were "suspected" of "treachery", you, your family, your friends were getting interrogatted then killed. Sounds familiar no?. The German army was nothing more than civillian doing their duty for the most part. The german army had the best tank of WW2 (Tigers) IIRC and a pretty damn good air force. They had a lot of men in their army too.

Now we are comparing a dictatorship of the 1940s to another one in the 40k year. How is that not in context? How is the Nazi germany not the same as the imperium??

That said, I am not a facist nor a supporter of the old/new nazi philosophy.


Oh and awesome paint scheme! I love how they are painted, nicely done!!!


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Mr. Burning wrote:

Good theme, cohesive paint job. It's certainly giving me ideas for the direction of my quasi Soviet/Tsarist themed IG.

that will look nice!!

Serder wrote:Now we are comparing a dictatorship of the 1940s to another one in the 40k year. How is that not in context? How is the Nazi germany not the same as the imperium??

Because one is fiction about space men, elves and orks and one is about a regime that killed 6 million jews and started WWII. Even though there are similar themes, there is a big difference in fiction about purging mutants and chaos cultists and the fact of killing real innocent people.

Also, I posted this earlier, but the '4th Reich' that the army is named after is the belief in Neo-Nazi communities that through their beliefs Hitler's Third Reich can return in the future. Either a SUPER poor choice for an army name or an intentional espousal of neo-nazi ideals.

Great colour scheme! I love the Red Skull colonel!!! My suggestion is to add a count-as Sly Marbo modeled on the nazi sandman of Hellboy!

... for those who are offended... My family had members tortured by nazi-fascists and in a square 100 meters awy from my house 29 partisans have been killed by Nazis... But I can make a distinction between the horrible reality and a plastic toy soldiers game. Personally I'm making a 3rd reich themed ork army... (Right now I'm modeling my hitler gretchin )


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... just please do not make comparisons between the fictional wh40k horrors, and the REAL WW2 horrors... THIS is offensive. Not making a pun nazi army....

punkow wrote:Great colour scheme! I love the Red Skull colonel!!! My suggestion is to add a count-as Sly Marbo modeled on the nazi sandman of Hellboy!

... for those who are offended... My family had members tortured by nazi-fascists and in a square 100 meters awy from my house 29 partisans have been killed by Nazis... But I can make a distinction between the horrible reality and a plastic toy soldiers game. Personally I'm making a 3rd reich themed ork army... (Right now I'm modeling my hitler gretchin )

Give him a small easel and some dodgy watercolours for sale as well!

That's a great army, I love the red skull.

pretre wrote:

Serder wrote:Now we are comparing a dictatorship of the 1940s to another one in the 40k year. How is that not in context? How is the Nazi germany not the same as the imperium??

Because one is fiction about space men, elves and orks and one is about a regime that killed 6 million jews and started WWII. Even though there are similar themes, there is a big difference in fiction about purging mutants and chaos cultists and the fact of killing real innocent people.

Also, I posted this earlier, but the '4th Reich' that the army is named after is the belief in Neo-Nazi communities that through their beliefs Hitler's Third Reich can return in the future. Either a SUPER poor choice for an army name or an intentional espousal of neo-nazi ideals.

Could some fiction that deals with purges and neo fascisim also have allegorical references?

I hope that neo nazis browising the interwebs for details on the 4th Reich come across plastic pew pew army mens!

pretre wrote:

Serder wrote:Now we are comparing a dictatorship of the 1940s to another one in the 40k year. How is that not in context? How is the Nazi germany not the same as the imperium??

Because one is fiction about space men, elves and orks and one is about a regime that killed 6 million jews and started WWII. Even though there are similar themes, there is a big difference in fiction about purging mutants and chaos cultists and the fact of killing real innocent people.

Also, I posted this earlier, but the '4th Reich' that the army is named after is the belief in Neo-Nazi communities that through their beliefs Hitler's Third Reich can return in the future. Either a SUPER poor choice for an army name or an intentional espousal of neo-nazi ideals.

I was not comparing the fiction vs reality. I was comparing the two "country" (really, I can't find a better word that englobes both the Imperium and germany). Reich was actually the name the german were calling their country from 1871 to 1945 and the German Reich means the German Empire. If you know your history, you'll know that the Nazi political party (can't remember the Big name of Hitler's party) gained power in 1934 and lost it when Germany was defeated in 1945 IIRC. So the Reich or Empire to use English instead of German was existing more than 60 years before Hitler came to power. So Reich does not mean Nazi, reich means Empire. So how is the 4th Empire IMperial army not in context with the Imperium of man? Also, the black cross with red and black and white is used with the black templars.

Overall, nice paint scheme and do not get offended by a red and blackish paint scheme with a black cross as a logo.


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punkow wrote:
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... just please do not make comparisons between the fictional wh40k horrors, and the REAL WW2 horrors... THIS is offensive. Not making a pun nazi army....

Was not trying to offense any one. I wanted to put in evidence that the army paint scheme was in context by differencing the SS/Nazi-German army with Inquisition-Guard. My bad if I offended you, there was really no abd intention in my post.

I love those snipers. The capes were perfect!

Society worries me. I mean, on one hand; people get offended by small things like German themed armies, and on the other; one of the most popular games of the generation has an entire game mode with Nazi zombies...

I love the army, the paint scheme is very good, and I personally think they suit the universe rather aptly. *tips hat*

Serder wrote:So the Reich or Empire to use English instead of German was existing more than 60 years before Hitler came to power. So Reich does not mean Nazi, reich means Empire. So how is the 4th Empire IMperial army not in context with the Imperium of man?

You can say the same thing about Swastikas and their use in many societies prior to the Nazis. The point is that the 4th Reich is a specific neo-nazi term, just as the swastika is a specific nazi symbol, regardless of previous connotations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Reich

So your just saying that you can't see past one thing to see another really if some one makes a swastika for thier religion and not the nazi swastika that is tilted ( as only a title swastika is the nazi one ) your gonna say nazi ? thats just poor really then we could condem just about every single army for something in 40k :p to something horrible in reallife

pretre wrote:

Serder wrote:So the Reich or Empire to use English instead of German was existing more than 60 years before Hitler came to power. So Reich does not mean Nazi, reich means Empire. So how is the 4th Empire IMperial army not in context with the Imperium of man?

You can say the same thing about Swastikas and their use in many societies prior to the Nazis. The point is that the 4th Reich is a specific neo-nazi term, just as the swastika is a specific nazi symbol, regardless of previous connotations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Reich

Sooo, how about we stop playing 40k? The black templar have the Nazis black cross as an emblem. OMG GW ARE PARTNERED WITH THE NEO NAZISSS!!!!!!!!!!

no, 4th Reich is thetheme of the army. Sometimes, you have to expand your view of things and not be close minded. I'm pretty sure the guy did not think any offense as he said in his post that some people seems to have totally ignored. If you make a soviet themed army, are you a communist? If I make an ork army that like to loot things, does that make me a thief? According to your thinking, If you play warhammer and choose an army, you approve of their way of thinking. So all of us miniwargamer like to wage war and send billions of poeple to their death? No we do not, we play an army because we think it is cool. We paint it in a way that is nice looking (which op did)

Also, how about you go at Marvel and tell them your opinions about the Captain america movie and red skull. Hey there are nazis there too. Indiana Jones was trying to give ideas to neo Nazis too right? Oh, Nazis Zombies in MW2 (or was it WaW??) that means the Nazis are coming back? No it is entertaining and cool to watch/play. WW2 themed army are cool to paint, there is no more then this.

I mean, the nazis were a bad part of germany. 4th Reich might mean something that no one wants to see but the OP specifically said in his post that he did not intend it that way, that it was just a color scheme. If he would've named his army third Reich, you would probably have been going about how he supports Hitler right?

The name goes with the army which fits into the universe IMO. Why?? Because I know we are talking about plastic, metal and resine minatures and so I will not be offended by it. Didn't you see in the other posts?? Some of the people that lived the harshness of living under the Nazi regime are saying it is a nice army scheme. heck, one is even making a German themed ork army.

You also talked about fiction vs reality in on of your older post. How is this army realistic? Tanks with dozer blades, red skull, none of this is real, nor is the army.

kuso wrote:So your just saying that you can't see past one thing to see another really if some one makes a swastika for thier religion and not the nazi swastika that is tilted ( as only a title swastika is the nazi one ) your gonna say nazi ? thats just poor really then we could condem just about every single army for something in 40k :p to something horrible in reallife

I think you are missing the whole point. Swastika was an example and is not obviously present in this army or anyone's argument. Hitler and the Fourth Reich on the other hand...

Having just seen Captain America, I too got a hoot when I saw your Red Skull commander. I thought you did a really nice job on this army.

Offended about a army being themed after the army that the manufacture based the models on in first place? Wait... what?

Seriously I get a good chuckle out of people that are offended by WWII German themed armies; DKoK is far from the only German reference GW made. In fact:


Baslisk = Hummel in fact there's even a version of the Hummel with a shorter larger caliber gun, and that would be the Medusa.

LRBT = MKVII German tank the only real difference is the length of the tank.



Now if you REALLY want to be offended by Nazism shown in GW products, the next time you're paying attention to your Skaven armies watch for what is called a "Triskel" which is a Neo-nazi symbol. Of course the Triskel is seen in many different versions in history, but then I could say the EXACT same about the Swastika. As both Christians and Budist used the same symbol in the past ((going back a bit, but its there)).

pretre wrote:

kuso wrote:So your just saying that you can't see past one thing to see another really if some one makes a swastika for thier religion and not the nazi swastika that is tilted ( as only a title swastika is the nazi one ) your gonna say nazi ? thats just poor really then we could condem just about every single army for something in 40k :p to something horrible in reallife

I think you are missing the whole point. Swastika was an example and is not obviously present in this army or anyone's argument. Hitler and the Fourth Reich on the other hand...

You are missing the OP point!

Also just though about it. The imperium is represented by an eagle. What was on top of most Nazis banner...??????? an eagle. So all SM, IG, WH and GK player are supporting the Neo Nazis????

No they are not!

Go and read my post 4 post up this one


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Dracheous wrote:Offended about a army being themed after the army that the manufacture based the models on in first place? Wait... what?

Seriously I get a good chuckle out of people that are offended by WWII German themed armies; DKoK is far from the only German reference GW made. In fact:


Baslisk = Hummel in fact there's even a version of the Hummel with a shorter larger caliber gun, and that would be the Medusa.

LRBT = MKVII German tank the only real difference is the length of the tank.



Now if you REALLY want to be offended by Nazism shown in GW products, the next time you're paying attention to your Skaven armies watch for what is called a "Triskel" which is a Neo-nazi symbol. Of course the Triskel is seen in many different versions in history, but then I could say the EXACT same about the Swastika. As both Christians and Budist used the same symbol in the past ((going back a bit, but its there)).

True, totally missed that, lol, +1

TLDR: If the OP had named them the 1st Fallschirmjäger Division and not included a Hitler mini, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead he chose imagery that evokes nazi-ism intentionally or unintentionally to cause offense or drama. That's the problem I have.

Serder wrote:Sooo, how about we stop playing 40k? The black templar have the Nazis black cross as an emblem. OMG GW ARE PARTNERED WITH THE NEO NAZISSS!!!!!!!!!!

Strawman.

no, 4th Reich is thetheme of the army. Sometimes, you have to expand your view of things and not be close minded. I'm pretty sure the guy did not think any offense as he said in his post that some people seems to have totally ignored.

I didn't say I was offended. I said that this army was a poor choice because it is almost guaranteed to offend someone.

If you make a soviet themed army, are you a communist? If I make an ork army that like to loot things, does that make me a thief? According to your thinking, If you play warhammer and choose an army, you approve of their way of thinking.

Strawman.

So all of us miniwargamer like to wage war and send billions of poeple to their death? No we do not, we play an army because we think it is cool. We paint it in a way that is nice looking (which op did)

Strawman.

Also, how about you go at Marvel and tell them your opinions about the Captain america movie and red skull. Hey there are nazis there too. Indiana Jones was trying to give ideas to neo Nazis too right? Oh, Nazis Zombies in MW2 (or was it WaW??) that means the Nazis are coming back? No it is entertaining and cool to watch/play. WW2 themed army are cool to paint, there is no more then this.

Those are all the antagonists, not the protagonists.

I mean, the nazis were a bad part of germany. 4th Reich might mean something that no one wants to see but the OP specifically said in his post that he did not intend it that way, that it was just a color scheme. If he would've named his army third Reich, you would probably have been going about how he supports Hitler right?

Use of the terms Third or Fourth Reich are both poor choices if you don't want to look like you are supporting that world view. If he had instead called them the 1st Fallschirmjäger Division and not included a Hitler mini, I would have been fine with the army and would have applauded him. Instead he chose imagery that specifically invokes nazi-ism instead of German Military imagery. That's the problem I have.

The name goes with the army which fits into the universe IMO. Why?? Because I know we are talking about plastic, metal and resine minatures and so I will not be offended by it. Didn't you see in the other posts?? Some of the people that lived the harshness of living under the Nazi regime are saying it is a nice army scheme. heck, one is even making a German themed ork army.

I never said that everyone would be offended by it. I said that it would offend someone and was a poor choice.

You also talked about fiction vs reality in on of your older post. How is this army realistic? Tanks with dozer blades, red skull, none of this is real, nor is the army.

They're also inches tall. I think that clued me in as well.

I don't feel like debating this anymore, say straw man like you want, I just used your arguments and turned them around and showed how they made no real sense as they can be used against most of what GW has done.

I would love to play the OP army and I think it is an awesome army. If some people find that offensive, so be it. Not my problem if they cannot make the difference between the nazis and the german army. And the 4th reich representing the neo nazis is not that widely known. I did not knew it was something that was associated with them until today. Perhaps OP is the same?!?!?

pretre wrote:

Almarine wrote:And really, if OP happens to be a nazi, why shouldn't he get to champion his cause on the tabletop?

lol
Now that's a great quote.
So we should now champion our political views in our 40k games? Can I put 'NObama' bumper stickers on my rhinos? Maybe I'll make the Cabal of Fiscal Responsibility dark eldar army.

Yeah...

hahahaahahahahahahahahahaha yes. Thankyou for saying the funniest thing I've heard all day.

I like it. Painting models this way should not a problem. It's like damning people for playing as Germany in WWII miniature games.

I imagine the IG this way regardless anyways.