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Grey knights have some of the worst fluff I've ever read. Hands down.

Melissia wrote:Indeed. And actually, some of the new Sisters stuff in lore is an improvement over the previous codex.

One tiny bit which annoys me: Celestine. She is apparently a "divine warrior who appears in times of great need". Making her like, what, fourth such character in 5th Edition books? I realize it's a big Imperium and you need many divine warrios with miraculous intervention powers to handle all dire situations, but sheesh...

Backfire wrote:

Melissia wrote:Indeed. And actually, some of the new Sisters stuff in lore is an improvement over the previous codex.

One tiny bit which annoys me: Celestine. She is apparently a "divine warrior who appears in times of great need". Making her like, what, fourth such character in 5th Edition books? I realize it's a big Imperium and you need many divine warrios with miraculous intervention powers to handle all dire situations, but sheesh...

The Imperium is a big place. It's hard to appear in every time of great need. Especially if two times of great needs happen at the same time in totally different Segmentiums.

Grey Knights hand down. Why? Well, there was that one time where the Knights butchered the Sisters of Battle. Loyal sisters, mind you, not traitors. Why? To protect themselves from demonic corruption...even though it's been stated many times that the Grey Knights are absolutely demon proof.

And for some reason the Grey Knights are now absolutely ok with demon weapons...even though they all hate demons.

So much fail.

Why don't Tyranids have monster which appears, praiseth the Hive Mind, just as the evil Space Marines are about to wipe out the last remnants of Hive Fleet and saves the hapless species from extinction? Or Orks? Really, I'd love if Snikrots' fluff went like "And just as the Ultramarines Captain was about to land a killing blow on Ghazghkull and forever crush the Orkish dreams of conquering Armageddon, Boss Snikrot appeared seemingly out of nowhere and sank Mork's Teeth between ribs of Space Marine, turning the tide of battle and rallying the Orks for one final Waaagh! to stomp their enemies for good."

I wish their was an option for anything written by matt ward. I really hated the fanboi and mary sue of the ultramarines codex... Er... I mean space marines codex. The blood angles wasnt too bad, probualy his best one. But gray knights took the cake. I hated that codex.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Grey Knights hand down. Why? Well, there was that one time where the Knights butchered the Sisters of Battle. Loyal sisters, mind you, not traitors. Why?

Because the Sisters were tainted beyond redemption or saving. Or did you not actually read the story, and are just going off what you've heard on the interwebs?

To protect themselves from demonic corruption...even though it's been stated many times that the Grey Knights are absolutely demon proof.

Being Daemon proof is not being proof against the powers that Daemons wield. Otherwise, you'd have no Grey Knights--ever--dying to anything but Daemonic claws or weapons. The Grey Knights used "sacred oils and unguents" in addition with the blood of the faithful Sisters to create a further layer of protection against a Daemon that was powerful enough to corrupt an entire freaking Shrineworld.

And for some reason the Grey Knights are now absolutely ok with demon weapons...even though they all hate demons.
So much fail.

You mean a really obvious reason, which actually is in the Codex? It's a weapon that they are safeguarding against it falling into enemy hands.

I can understand locking a deamon weapon away to safe guard it, but actually using it is heretical. Or at best radical.

Grey Knights.

I used to play them, back when they were fluff-awesome fearless badasses that would take on bloodthirsters one one one even though there was no hope of them beating them.

No other codex fluff has made me check it through a dozen times to make sure i didn't have a sudden breakdown of my reading skills. That pile of steaming ward-turds causes cognitive dissonance a parsec across :(

If this is a shining example of his fluff-writing skills i'm dreading the new Codex Necrons fluff.

If they're actively freeing the Daemon and using it to its full potential?
You'd be right.

But they're not doing that. They're still gaining a benefit, from the Daemon being bound to them just enough that it has to share its power--which weakens the Daemon enough so that it's not going to be a danger if the wielder falls. The blade is also bound and layered in wards to prevent the Daemon from influencing outside events.

I said Grey Knights. The Blood-tide thing is pretty bad, but the Draigo stuff is even worse, IMO. I don't hate Matt Ward, but I do think he is easily, without question, the weakest fluff writer GW has ever had.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Grey Knights hand down. Why? Well, there was that one time where the Knights butchered the Sisters of Battle. Loyal sisters, mind you, not traitors. Why? To protect themselves from demonic corruption...even though it's been stated many times that the Grey Knights are absolutely demon proof.

They are "daemon proof" because they have willpower and resolve to commit whatever acts it takes to avoid being corrupted or tempted. Not because they have some sort of "Mythi-Power(tm)" which makes them "daemon proof". And really, the Bloodtide incident was probably one of the LEAST collateral damage-producing actions Grey Knights or Inquisition have undertaken.

Kanluwen wrote:Because the Sisters were tainted beyond redemption or saving......... in addition with the blood of the faithful Sisters[/b].

How can you give two conflicting versions of the event in the same post?

The second one is the correct one though, the Sisters' blood was described as "innocent", they were not tainted beyond redemption or saving.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Because the Sisters were tainted beyond redemption or saving......... in addition with the blood of the faithful Sisters[/b].

How can you give two conflicting versions of the event in the same post?

The second one is the correct one though, the Sisters' blood was described as "innocent", they were not tainted beyond redemption or saving.

Bloodtide happened because Ward hate Sisters...he have some blood-fetish toward them.

Was browsing through some of the old 2nd codexs and Codex Imperialis.
One wonders sometimes where it all went wrong.

Dont get me wrong some of the later fluff is great, moves the timeline along and has some enjoyable angles and plot pieces (despite the hate I quite enjoyed the newer Nid fluff) but its so overblown at times. Every army fluff-wise these days is "the best one", theres no mystery or balance or potential anymore.

We'll whoop yer arse until the next codex comes along. Ho hum.

Void__Dragon wrote:The second one is the correct one though, the Sisters' blood was described as "innocent", they were not tainted beyond redemption or saving.

Yeah, GW needed a victim, and Sisters are their favorite victim.

Melissia wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:The second one is the correct one though, the Sisters' blood was described as "innocent", they were not tainted beyond redemption or saving.

Yeah, GW needed a victim, and Sisters are their favorite victim.

Damn GW , they should all burn in the righteous flame of the Ecclesiarchy.

Backfire wrote:Necrons, by far. Their fluff is poorly designed and uninspired and doesn't portray them as scary at all.

LOLWUT?

You've smoked some bad granola there hippy. The current Necron codex has some of the best background currently in 40k with a wonderful objective narration that covers millions of years and many many events that the Imperium has no knowledge of. This is unlike other Codexes where everything is written from an Imperial perspective. As for not scary, seriously read the Adept Corteswain story on page 58-59. That is an example of good codex writing. To think that Ward can potentially undo all of this does not thrill me one bit.

I said Tyranids because, well, it's just a load of om nom nom

I know that's all they do, but I didn't feel particulalry enlightened to the race after I read it. No "Wow, that was unexpected" moments. I can't say I read the whole thing that well, but that was my impression.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Because the Sisters were tainted beyond redemption or saving......... in addition with the blood of the faithful Sisters[/b].

How can you give two conflicting versions of the event in the same post?

The second one is the correct one though, the Sisters' blood was described as "innocent", they were not tainted beyond redemption or saving.

Because they're not two conflicting versions of the event?

You can be tainted but not be corrupted.
Nurgle, as an example, delights in his followers spreading plagues to turn the faithful to his light for surviving his "Gifts". The corpses of the plagueslain are referred to by the Imperium as 'tainted'.
Those who survive these plagues and contagions have given themselves over to Nurgle. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. If you contract a Nurgle delivered plague, you're not surviving. Those who survive are referred to as "corrupted".

Corruption is voluntary. Being exposed to a taint is not.

Grimtuff wrote:

Backfire wrote:Necrons, by far. Their fluff is poorly designed and uninspired and doesn't portray them as scary at all.

LOLWUT?

You've smoked some bad granola there hippy. The current Necron codex has some of the best background currently in 40k with a wonderful objective narration that covers millions of years and many many events that the Imperium has no knowledge of. This is unlike other Codexes where everything is written from an Imperial perspective. As for not scary, seriously read the Adept Corteswain story on page 58-59. That is an example of good codex writing. To think that Ward can potentially undo all of this does not thrill me one bit.

It's awful. The whole background story of the Necrons is told to far too great detail, leaving pretty much no mystery about the race (compare that to, say, Tyranids, or even Tau). And the story is very uninspired, like someone came up with it in 5 minutes, some silly contrived way to explain in ass-backwards fashion how this metal skeleton race ended up in their skeletons. The C'Tan have no history behind them, they were just stumbled upon and for some reason they wanted to destroy everything. Most of the story pieces are cliched crap, the one you mentioned is almost only one even remotely passable. Yes, it's easily the worst codex in existence and goes long way explaining why Necrons are so unpopular. I'm looking forward to their upcoming codex, as it HAS TO be more interesting.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Grey Knights hand down. Why? Well, there was that one time where the Knights butchered the Sisters of Battle. Loyal sisters, mind you, not traitors. Why? To protect themselves from demonic corruption...even though it's been stated many times that the Grey Knights are absolutely demon proof.

And for some reason the Grey Knights are now absolutely ok with demon weapons...even though they all hate demons.

So much fail.

You, and every other hater out there, need to read this,

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bloodtide


This explains alot of things and actually makes that incident completely acceptable.

Covering yourself in blood would actually be a reasonable method of protecting yourself.

Kanluwen wrote:Because they're not two conflicting versions of the event?

You can be tainted but not be corrupted.
Nurgle, as an example, delights in his followers spreading plagues to turn the faithful to his light for surviving his "Gifts". The corpses of the plagueslain are referred to by the Imperium as 'tainted'.
Those who survive these plagues and contagions have given themselves over to Nurgle. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. If you contract a Nurgle delivered plague, you're not surviving. Those who survive are referred to as "corrupted".

Corruption is voluntary. Being exposed to a taint is not.

Then please do us a favor and point out where the codex says they were tainted beyond redemption or saving.

Backfire wrote:It's awful. The whole background story of the Necrons is told to far too great detail, leaving pretty much no mystery about the race (compare that to, say, Tyranids, or even Tau). And the story is very uninspired, like someone came up with it in 5 minutes, some silly contrived way to explain in ass-backwards fashion how this metal skeleton race ended up in their skeletons. The C'Tan have no history behind them, they were just stumbled upon and for some reason they wanted to destroy everything. Most of the story pieces are cliched crap, the one you mentioned is almost only one even remotely passable. Yes, it's easily the worst codex in existence and goes long way explaining why Necrons are so unpopular. I'm looking forward to their upcoming codex, as it HAS TO be more interesting.

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

Take this as the humor that is suposed to be, I made in response to everyone's responces

Void__Dragon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Because they're not two conflicting versions of the event?

You can be tainted but not be corrupted.
Nurgle, as an example, delights in his followers spreading plagues to turn the faithful to his light for surviving his "Gifts". The corpses of the plagueslain are referred to by the Imperium as 'tainted'.
Those who survive these plagues and contagions have given themselves over to Nurgle. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. If you contract a Nurgle delivered plague, you're not surviving. Those who survive are referred to as "corrupted".

Corruption is voluntary. Being exposed to a taint is not.

Then please do us a favor and point out where the codex says they were tainted beyond redemption or saving.

Any kind of taint is beyond redemption or saving.

This isn't difficult to understand, and it really requires no further explanation. The Grey Knights are not the Good Guys that people believe them to be, they are there to make the hard choices. Consigning a world to oblivion to prevent a Daemonic infestation or taint from spreading to other worlds is necessary, and stopping an incursion of an entity as powerful as the one responsible for the Bloodtide(which if it corrupted an entire Shrineworld from within a hexagrammically warded containment vessel as it is just waking up from being contained, is incredibly powerful) means that there will be no one left alive. Any exposure to that kind of entity and the taint associated with it demands a complete extermination of any and everyone who came into contact with it.

Kanluwen wrote:Any kind of taint is beyond redemption or saving.

This isn't difficult to understand, and it really requires no further explanation. The Grey Knights are not the Good Guys that people believe them to be, they are there to make the hard choices. Consigning a world to oblivion to prevent a Daemonic infestation or taint from spreading to other worlds is necessary, and stopping an incursion of an entity as powerful as the one responsible for the Bloodtide(which if it corrupted an entire Shrineworld from within a hexagrammically warded containment vessel as it is just waking up from being contained, is incredibly powerful) means that there will be no one left alive. Any exposure to that kind of entity and the taint associated with it demands a complete extermination of any and everyone who came into contact with it.

You're not really getting my point here.

They weren't tainted, at all. That's actually kind of the point behind why they were slaughtered. Hence why their blood served as a talisman of purity. If they were tainted, their blood would be unsuitable, yet it is described as "innocent."

I don't fault the Grey Knights for slaughtering the Sisters, if it is necessary, then they should be slaughtered with as much impunity as anyone else.

But don't make excuses for the Grey Knights that don't exist. They butchered untainted, Loyalist Sisters of Battle to protect themselves, period.

I think a full tie with BA and GK. I put Wolves at a very close second.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Any kind of taint is beyond redemption or saving.

This isn't difficult to understand, and it really requires no further explanation. The Grey Knights are not the Good Guys that people believe them to be, they are there to make the hard choices. Consigning a world to oblivion to prevent a Daemonic infestation or taint from spreading to other worlds is necessary, and stopping an incursion of an entity as powerful as the one responsible for the Bloodtide(which if it corrupted an entire Shrineworld from within a hexagrammically warded containment vessel as it is just waking up from being contained, is incredibly powerful) means that there will be no one left alive. Any exposure to that kind of entity and the taint associated with it demands a complete extermination of any and everyone who came into contact with it.

You're not really getting my point here.

Nor are you apparently getting mine(or Forge World's, or Mat Ward's). This is not the first time such a thing has happened with the Ordo Malleus and Sisters of Battle.

They weren't tainted, at all. That's actually kind of the point behind why they were slaughtered. Hence why their blood served as a talisman of purity. If they were tainted, their blood would be unsuitable, yet it is described as "innocent."

No, they weren't corrupted. There's a difference. They were exposed to a taint, but remained uncorrupted. This is what happened in Vraks as well, where surviving Sisters of the Order stationed on Vraks who had been the Cardinal's bodyguard were executed by the Ordo Malleus partially because of the fact that these Sisters were held prisoner inside the Cardinal's citadel(the other part is because the Ordo Malleus wanted to feth with the Ordo Hereticus for screwing with the campaign and pulling politics to ensure that the Ordo Malleus did not receive the full measure of a Krieg siege army that they were to be afforded).

I don't fault the Grey Knights for slaughtering the Sisters, if it is necessary, then they should be slaughtered with as much impunity as anyone else.

But don't make excuses for the Grey Knights that don't exist. They butchered untainted, Loyalist Sisters of Battle to protect themselves, period.

Taint != Corruption.

If you fall to a taint, you're corrupted.

Kanluwen wrote:Any kind of taint is beyond redemption or saving.

That is definitely untrue.

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Any kind of taint is beyond redemption or saving.

That is definitely untrue.

Not really. When we're talking about a Daemon that causes a planetary taint, before it even becomes fully awakened to its powers--any taint is beyond redemption.