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Kanluwen wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Any kind of taint is beyond redemption or saving.

That is definitely untrue.

Not really. When we're talking about a Daemon that causes a planetary taint, before it even becomes fully awakened to its powers--any taint is beyond redemption.

The Imperium has many means to remove taint.

Kanluwen wrote:Nor are you apparently getting mine(or Forge World's, or Mat Ward's). This is not the first time such a thing has happened with the Ordo Malleus and Sisters of Battle.

No, they weren't corrupted. There's a difference. They were exposed to a taint, but remained uncorrupted. This is what happened in Vraks as well, where surviving Sisters of the Order stationed on Vraks who had been the Cardinal's bodyguard were executed by the Ordo Malleus partially because of the fact that these Sisters were held prisoner inside the Cardinal's citadel(the other part is because the Ordo Malleus wanted to feth with the Ordo Hereticus for screwing with the campaign and pulling politics to ensure that the Ordo Malleus did not receive the full measure of a Krieg siege army that they were to be afforded).

Taint != Corruption.

If you fall to a taint, you're corrupted.

You're applying a motive to their slaughter that doesn't exist.

They were killed because their purity would protect the Grey Knights from the Bloodtide, that is the only motive given.

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Any kind of taint is beyond redemption or saving.

That is definitely untrue.

Not really. When we're talking about a Daemon that causes a planetary taint, before it even becomes fully awakened to its powers--any taint is beyond redemption.

The Imperium has many means to remove taint.

Not really, not when it comes to a very powerful one. When it reaches those kinds of taints, they have two options. Remove the source of the taint and/or destroy those who have been exposed to the taint.

Void__Dragon wrote:You're applying a motive to their slaughter that doesn't exist.

They were killed because their purity would protect the Grey Knights from the Bloodtide, that is the only motive given.

No, I'm really not applying a motive to their slaughter that doesn't exist. You're applying some ridiculous level of "purity" that is absurd. An individual can be tainted but remain pure.

Why is it that we have to have this freaking conversation every time a "worst fluff in a Codex" thread? Is it really that complex of an idea?

Kanluwen wrote:No, I'm really not applying a motive to their slaughter that doesn't exist. You're applying some ridiculous level of "purity" that is absurd. An individual can be tainted but remain pure.

Why is it that we have to have this freaking conversation every time a "worst fluff in a Codex" thread? Is it really that complex of an idea?

Considering their purity was what was credited with protecting the Grey Knights from the Bloodtide, well, yeah.

Not once is it said "The Grey Knights had no choice but to kill the Sisters because they were tainted," they were butchered because they needed to use their blood as a talisman of purity.

The motive you are describing is not stated once when referring to the Bloodtide incident.

I don't understand this discussion anymore, whole "tainted vs corrupted" thing. Must be a language barrier?

Definitely the Grey Knight book. It's a shame that their old fluff used to be so good too. Sure, there wasn't much of it, but you didn't need much. They were inherently mysterious while still being obviously awesome, and the inquisitional fluff that came with it helped to add both background and atmosphere.

The new fluff not only betrays most of the old fluff (Grey Knights are supposed to be Puritan!), but is just so badly done. Wankery aside, there's no sense of mystery or atmosphere behind them. They're just awesome and righteous to an incredibly annoying degree.

They went from being "The secret elite military branch of the Ordo Malleus" to "Grey better marines who aren't afraid of a little friendly fire, but it's okay because they're supposed to be a secret and awesome and cool."

In the case of the Grey Knights, less is a lot more. Matt Ward never figured this out.

Grey Knights with out a doubt they went from Awesome Grey Knights to Fail Knights when the codex came up.
The Grey Knights new fluff betrays the original feeling of them being saviors of humanity, that won't exterminate humanity on their own. If anything they are over using the we must stay secret.

Everyone eject! Arguing with Kan about anything fluff related is more pointless than arguing with Kan about GW's business practices.

He will not back down, no matter how many people (and how many votes) stand against his view. It is a complete waste of your time.

I'll just end this post with this though:

Calm down.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Everyone eject! Arguing with Kan about anything fluff related is more pointless than arguing with Kan about GW's business practices.

He will not back down, no matter how many people (and how many votes) stand against his view. It is a complete waste of your time.

I'll just end this post with this though:

This made me laugh so hard XD

Of course I won't back down. They are my views.
It's the same with my stance on the death penalty and homosexual marriages. People can stand against me as much as they want, it doesn't change my stance on them.

Fun fact though: I do have a hat right now.

Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle are brothers and sisters in arms.
United in one true purpose their God give them they together stand against enemies of Mankind, in matterium and immaterium.
But they are not alone in theis fight, alongside them stand brave Guardsman, honorable Astartes and vise Mechanicus.
And together, they lead our race in a struggle for survival and galactic dominance.

And that is the only truth about Imeprial forces and their obligations and loyalties.

These are my views, Kan has his views. He respect mine and I respect his

Brother Coa wrote:Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle are brothers and sisters in arms.
United in one true purpose their God give them they together stand against enemies of Mankind, in matterium and immaterium.
But they are not alone in theis fight, alongside them stand brave Guardsman, honorable Astartes and vise Mechanicus.
And together, they lead our race in a struggle for survival and galactic dominance.

And that is the only truth about Imeprial forces and their obligations and loyalties.

These are my views, Kan has his views. He respect mine and I respect his

I was going to say I don't respect anyones opinions not even my own. But seeing that would make it impossible I will say. I will believe people that support their opinion.

I really don't like the fluff of the Grey Knights where they massacre Sisters of Battle for no reason. Other than that the book is fine imo. Draigo is a bit ridiculous, but I expect in the next Chaos Codex for a Daemon to be going through the Imperium like a butter knife through butter to make up for it.

Backfire wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Grey Knights hand down. Why? Well, there was that one time where the Knights butchered the Sisters of Battle. Loyal sisters, mind you, not traitors. Why? To protect themselves from demonic corruption...even though it's been stated many times that the Grey Knights are absolutely demon proof.

They are "daemon proof" because they have willpower and resolve to commit whatever acts it takes to avoid being corrupted or tempted. Not because they have some sort of "Mythi-Power(tm)" which makes them "daemon proof". And really, the Bloodtide incident was probably one of the LEAST collateral damage-producing actions Grey Knights or Inquisition have undertaken.

Really? What was the most?

Quickly getting away from the (never ending) GK discussion... Is there no one else who kinda dislikes the whole idea behind the Dark Eldar? I must admit, I haven`t read the codex and barely have any knowledge of their full fluff, but the bits I know are really ridiculous. I mean between all these races with different interesting political systems and societies, fighting for survival or at least seeming somehow "realistic", the Dark Eldar just fly around in oldschool ships with engines whipping people, get slaves and mix all living things they find together for da lulz. I understand the idea of Orks just being silly and lootin for da lulz, because they are supposed to be some kind of primitive species that doesn´t need anything more then fighting and who´s society always collapses under tribal rivalry, but Dark Eldar being so advanced and still so ridiculously silly... I just can´t sympathise with that. An entire big civilised fraction dedicated to just doing nonesense and having no problem surviving because ... they hide in some webway or behind a rainbow orsomething... Ok I have next to no idea of the fluff, but still I feel they are hugely innecessary and a lot worse then the GK stabbin some sisters, but oppinions may vary.

Ps: The Grey Knight with the "hat" made me die from laughter.

Grey Knights, because as someone else stated, they lost their cool mystique.

I'm not going to say a thing on the Bloodtide incident, or Draigo, because honestly I don't about those as much. What annoys me is that what was once the super-secret militant arm of the Ordo Malleus, the incorruptible, those who didn't have to run around and throw the words pure on everything, have been reduced to an immature "We're super badasses who don't afraid of nothing!".

I mean seriously, damn...


I also do have to admit that I don't get how Dark Eldar "feed" on pain. I mean, if they hurt somebody, I understand if they're happy or elated, but by killing someone they suddenly become immune to bullets? (Seriously, FnP? I'm not crying cheese, I just don't understand the logic)

Cryonicleech wrote:Grey Knights, because as someone else stated, they lost their cool mystique.

I'm not going to say a thing on the Bloodtide incident, or Draigo, because honestly I don't about those as much. What annoys me is that what was once the super-secret militant arm of the Ordo Malleus, the incorruptible, those who didn't have to run around and throw the words pure on everything, have been reduced to an immature "We're super badasses who don't afraid of nothing!".

I mean seriously, damn...


I also do have to admit that I don't get how Dark Eldar "feed" on pain. I mean, if they hurt somebody, I understand if they're happy or elated, but by killing someone they suddenly become immune to bullets? (Seriously, FnP? I'm not crying cheese, I just don't understand the logic)

I think it's that they literally consume the souls of those they kill, which makes them more powerful.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Backfire wrote:
They are "daemon proof" because they have willpower and resolve to commit whatever acts it takes to avoid being corrupted or tempted. Not because they have some sort of "Mythi-Power(tm)" which makes them "daemon proof". And really, the Bloodtide incident was probably one of the LEAST collateral damage-producing actions Grey Knights or Inquisition have undertaken.

Really? What was the most?

Well, possibly one of the rather many occasions when they have Exterminated entire planet. Or maybe Raxos where Stern ordered huge number of civilian refugee shuttles to be destroyed because he suspected one of them was carrying a Daemon. Or First War of Armageddon where entire population of the planet was put to concentration camps.

Codex:GK, come on, it just ridiculas!

Fire_for_effect wrote:Quickly getting away from the (never ending) GK discussion... Is there no one else who kinda dislikes the whole idea behind the Dark Eldar? I must admit, I haven`t read the codex and barely have any knowledge of their full fluff, but the bits I know are really ridiculous. I mean between all these races with different interesting political systems and societies, fighting for survival or at least seeming somehow "realistic", the Dark Eldar just fly around in oldschool ships with engines whipping people, get slaves and mix all living things they find together for da lulz. I understand the idea of Orks just being silly and lootin for da lulz, because they are supposed to be some kind of primitive species that doesn´t need anything more then fighting and who´s society always collapses under tribal rivalry, but Dark Eldar being so advanced and still so ridiculously silly... I just can´t sympathise with that. An entire big civilised fraction dedicated to just doing nonesense and having no problem surviving because ... they hide in some webway or behind a rainbow orsomething... Ok I have next to no idea of the fluff, but still I feel they are hugely innecessary and a lot worse then the GK stabbin some sisters, but oppinions may vary.

Well, to understand the Dark Eldar, you have to understand how they came to be, and the mentality of an Eldar.

The Eldar have a wider emotional range than humans do, much wider. This translates into them sometimes slipping into an extreme, and it is the reason why Eldar are so orderly and disciplined.

However, if they continue to experience one thing for so long and become entrenched in it, they reach an extreme that they can't get out of. Exarchs for instance become so focused on combat, they literally can't stop and do anything else, being now totally focused on it.

The Dark Eldar are like this, but with sadism and depravity. It's literally a drug for them, an addiction. Beyond that, they also do it due to existential dread, they feed on the suffering of others (I assume they literally leech the emotion from them, sort of like slowly eating their soul) to prolong their lives and keep themselves from dying and being devoured (And worse) by Slaanesh. Who they created. You see, before the Fall, the Eldar were such an advanced race that they had way too much free time, their technology being capable of doing their work. So they spent time being lazy hedonistic bastards. They began seeking new thrills, greater excesses, and over time they had to resort to greater and greater extremes to satiate themselves, their pursuit of excess being like drugs for them.

And Dark Eldar tech is not oldschool, their tech is some of the most advanced in the setting, the only faction with undoubtedly superior technology being the Necrons.

I would recommend you give the 5e codex a read, IMHO has the best fluff of all the 5e codices, but that's just me.

Dark Eldar Codex is my favorite read, especially the part about Urien and Tau (Cultural Exchange! lol!)

I played GKs from the early days of the last book, and it pains me to say that they are indeed the champions of the worst fluff in the game right now. I just cannot get past the whole cracking open some Sisters for blood to roll around in, let along the Chuck Norris in power armor that is Draigo. The Inquisitor fluff is at least somewhat acceptable, but christ is the rest of it bad.

Honorable mention has to go to the Blood Angels, who went from being closet vampires to pretty greek boys who pal around with Necrons for fun.

The best fluff has to be the Necron book, with honorable mention (though it pains me again as an Eldar player) to the Dark Eldar book.

BA fluff is not actually that terrible (Getting ready to dodge all the flak that's coming my way)
Well, the part about the Necrons is kind of bewildering and the Sanguinar part is pretty silly, but at least it portrays their struggle against their innate flaws and fighting against extinctions and not being invincible uber dudes all the time.

Kanluwen wrote:Of course I won't back down. They are my views.
It's the same with my stance on the death penalty and homosexual marriages. People can stand against me as much as they want, it doesn't change my stance on them.

Fun fact though: I do have a hat right now.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! calm the feth down, we're talking about plastic, pewter, and resin army guys, not gay marriage.

Jackster wrote:BA fluff is not actually that terrible (Getting ready to dodge all the flak that's coming my way). Well, the part about the Necrons is kind of bewildering and the Sanguinar part is pretty silly, but at least it portrays their struggle against their innate flaws and fighting against extinctions and not being invincible uber dudes all the time.

You've summed up what's wrong with the Blood Angels (and the Space Wolves for that matter) perfectly. It's a few small moments of Ultra-Derp (Sanguinor, Necron/BA BFF's, Canis Wolfborn, Deep Striking Land Raiders, JoTWW, Sanguinor) that bring the BA and SW Codices down, but don't make them the worst. Most of what's there basically fits with what was there previously.

The GK's on the other hand...




And I know I said Sanguinor twice. That flying Mary Sue deserves two mentions.

Jackster wrote:BA fluff is not actually that terrible (Getting ready to dodge all the flak that's coming my way)
Well, the part about the Necrons is kind of bewildering and the Sanguinar part is pretty silly, but at least it portrays their struggle against their innate flaws and fighting against extinctions and not being invincible uber dudes all the time.

This, of course, I'm tempted to post the "hitler finds out about the new blood angels codex" video, since most of the people whining about BA are the eldar and tyranid players.

But that's more rules than fluff, right?

H.B.M.C. wrote:But that's more rules than fluff, right?

Yeah, however, I always recommend BA for starting a space marine army, due to having more troop choices, as well as other options, and being more playable. I would say DA isn't my favorite, with only one standard troop choice.

remilia_scarlet wrote:

Jackster wrote:BA fluff is not actually that terrible (Getting ready to dodge all the flak that's coming my way)
Well, the part about the Necrons is kind of bewildering and the Sanguinar part is pretty silly, but at least it portrays their struggle against their innate flaws and fighting against extinctions and not being invincible uber dudes all the time.

This, of course, I'm tempted to post the "hitler finds out about the new blood angels codex" video, since most of the people whining about BA are the eldar and tyranid players.

Love that video!

Though it was pretty well establish that Thunderhawks can transport land raiders, so they being air deploy by them wasnt really made up by Matt Ward.