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It's what GW have done for years now - hike prices to compensate for falling sales - so why change the habit of a lifetime?

It's evidently a misprint. GW would NEVER drop prices.

filbert wrote:Just recently, Nintendo knocked roughly £50 off the price of the new 3DS (from ~£200 to £149) in order to boost sales. I don't think anyone is expecting them to make less profit as a result - in fact, the whole point is to increase profit.

Difference here is, most consoles are loss leaders (or so I'm told.). It's the games, and licensing thereof, that brings in the cashmonies. Nobody buys your console, means nobody buys your games. Nobody buys the games, nobody makes a profit, and so on.

Though I would hasten to point out the arrival of Finecast has actually lowered some prices. Yhetees, Treekin etc are all noticably cheaper in their boxed sets. Is it across the board? Nope. Is it a reduced price? Yup. Does it matter? Up to you!

Mr Mystery wrote:
Difference here is, most consoles are loss leaders (or so I'm told.). It's the games, and licensing thereof, that brings in the cashmonies. Nobody buys your console, means nobody buys your games. Nobody buys the games, nobody makes a profit, and so on.

Though I would hasten to point out the arrival of Finecast has actually lowered some prices. Yhetees, Treekin etc are all noticably cheaper in their boxed sets. Is it across the board? Nope. Is it a reduced price? Yup. Does it matter? Up to you!

Then we could draw parallels to GW starter sets then - AOBR and IoB are prime examples of something that it would make sense to run as a loss leader, in fact I seem to remember a discussion on Dakka a while ago about it. Even if Nintendo do sell their hardware for a loss, knocking yet more money off it increases the hit. Again, no one is suggesting that they will make any less of a profit.

With regards to Finecast, it has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere on these boards. I would suggest that picking a couple of examples that have decreased in price is a bit disingenuous; the vast majority of Finecast releases increased quite dramatically in price; there is a spreadsheet posted in one of the discussion threads that calculates it - prices rose on some sets by anything up to 25%

It's not disingenious. You have there a price reduction, which is usually ignored.

Anyways, price reductions and impacts thereof are covered elsewhere on this thread. I was just pointing out a couple of things which hadn't been raised.

Mr Mystery wrote:It's not disingenious. You have there a price reduction, which is usually ignored.

It's usually ignored and rightly so to be honest, because it came contrary to a vast and sweeping raft of price rises. I'm surprised that you don't seem to acknowledge the dichotomy, seeing that most Finecast kits suddenly jumped anywhere up to 25% in price for the exact same model that had previously been available in metal.

It's like being given a penny sweet with one hand and punched in the crotch by the other - the positives are vastly outweighed by the negatives.

Oh FFS.

Please don't read between the lines. SOME Finecast stuff resulted in a small price drop. I said nowt about any other aspect, so please don't pretend I did.

Mr Mystery wrote:Oh FFS.

Please don't read between the lines. SOME Finecast stuff resulted in a small price drop. I said nowt about any other aspect, so please don't pretend I did.

I never suggested you did say anything about any other aspect - I am simply pointing out the context in which your cited examples occurred - in the middle of an across-the-board price rise, which is why I said it was disingenuous to use that as an example, because it ignores everything else associated with that.

Cherry picking a couple of examples of kits that have decreased in price whilst simultaneously ignoring or making reference to the overwhelming majority of price rises is fine, but expect to be called out on it.

I guess you just sort of found something to offend you and stopped reading my post, where I go on to say it's not across the board.

But hey ho.

Mr Mystery wrote:I guess you just sort of found something to offend you and stopped reading my post, where I go on to say it's not across the board.

But hey ho.

Because what you posted is of little relevance to the thread. Cherry picking a couple of examples that you managed to find, which go entirely against the grain of context and history of GW pricing, don't really demonstrate anything. When I suggest that it is disingenuous to present that whilst ignoring everything else you suddenly turn around and suggest I am putting words in your mouth:

Oh FFS.

Please don't read between the lines. SOME Finecast stuff resulted in a small price drop. I said nowt about any other aspect, so please don't pretend I did.

I acknowledge that the fact that some items have been decreased is usually ignored by most people but that is precisely because pretty much everything else has gone up.

Generally speaking, GW don't and haven't decreased prices, certainly not in recent years anyway. There may be odd examples here and there but they buck by far the larger trend.

The 3DS price drop was a bit of a desperate measure AFAIK -- it wasn't selling, not so much because it was too expensive, but because customers weren't that interested in it. A big chunk of the DS's casual, portable gaming niche is now occupied by the smartphone and tablet market, where people are accustomed to paying a fraction of the price of DS games. And there aren't any killer app 3DS games yet -- they've yet announced a bunch of sequels rather than something new and interesting.

Uh, given which, the parallels with GW are still not that far off, actually! Customers deserting them for new, interesting stuff that competes directly with their niche (high-quality miniatures with *better* rules and plenty of interesting fluff, and is cheaper than GW), with GW stumbling around like an old dinosaur, wondering why nobody wants another Mario retread.

The general consensus across the board is that if prices were reduced by even 20-40% then people would by loads more product from them. I mean - I have a local GW and then another local store that sells GW product... for 20-30% less.

Being I'm on a really tight budget, when I can afford some warhammer - I go to the cheaper store because I couldnt afford to shop at GW (i.e - I just started whfb and now have 2000pts of skaven, rulebook etc all I need is to get the army book and I'm set for now, but buying from GW I'd only have just got Island of Blood set and would be 2-3months before I had a usable force.)

However - if GW sold at 20-30% less then I'd buy from there - their direct sales would go up etc.

And I know a lot of people who would buy from GW / buy more product if the proces weren't so exhorbitant.

On a further gripe - I was really looking forward to the new DE. specially the Beast packs and the Coven units then they priced them so high I cannot afford them (£30 for a unit of haemoncs, £50-125 per squad of grots and £42 a squad of Wracks?? I don't have £400 to spend on 6-8 squads of troops :( )

GW make more money selling through Trade Account than through their own stores.

True story.

Mr Mystery wrote:

Though I would hasten to point out the arrival of Finecast has actually lowered some prices. Yhetees, Treekin etc are all noticably cheaper in their boxed sets. Is it across the board? Nope. Is it a reduced price? Yup. Does it matter? Up to you!

It may be splitting hairs, but this is not an example of lowering prices. It is true that the metal versions of these products are more expensive than the Finecast ones. However, they are different products, and thus the price was not lowered. I, for one, would not buy a Finecast model that I could not inspect for defects before I purchased it.

I would have liked to see GW lower the prices on its metals to clear them out before a Finecast release. That would have been an actual price reduction. However, GW does not do such things. They would rather throw them away. I can just image the landfill that is full of Battle for Skull Pass sets. If the rumors are true the gobbos in that set will soon be joined by the old Wolfriders.

If GW priced their products competitively they'd see a lot of existing hobbyists purchase direct from them rather than through online retailers, who they have to sell product to at wholesale price (read: discount). This results in higher sales volume, larger profits and a healthier company. Simply jacking prices up to try and cover the disparity between sales made and revenue accrued will, and has been proven to, do nothing except drive people away from the game due to the insurmountable barrier to entry.

True story.

L. Wrex

Mr Mystery wrote:GW make more money selling through Trade Account than through their own stores.

True story.

And what does that tell you about their mark up price and the perceived worth of their product by the consumer?

If GW actually did a sizeable price decrease their sales would go through the roof...temporarily. People would rush to buy due to fear the decrease is temporary. This would be great for the current quarter of sales billings, however it would take from future sales quarters due to people over buying now. Many companies have tried it and typically lose because of it. Its sad but once you get price heavy like GW has there is no real way to go back.

Fishboy wrote:If GW actually did a sizeable price decrease their sales would go through the roof...temporarily. People would rush to buy due to fear the decrease is temporary. This would be great for the current quarter of sales billings, however it would take from future sales quarters due to people over buying now. Many companies have tried it and typically lose because of it. Its sad but once you get price heavy like GW has there is no real way to go back.

Truth.

oni wrote:

Fishboy wrote:If GW actually did a sizeable price decrease their sales would go through the roof...temporarily. People would rush to buy due to fear the decrease is temporary. This would be great for the current quarter of sales billings, however it would take from future sales quarters due to people over buying now. Many companies have tried it and typically lose because of it. Its sad but once you get price heavy like GW has there is no real way to go back.

Truth.

Well, they could simply put a halt on their price rises.
That at least would have held onto the current customers rather than continuing to shrink their own market. Instead they continue to raise prices far in excess of inflation. The smaller their market becomes, the less stable it is.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

oni wrote:

Fishboy wrote:If GW actually did a sizeable price decrease their sales would go through the roof...temporarily. People would rush to buy due to fear the decrease is temporary. This would be great for the current quarter of sales billings, however it would take from future sales quarters due to people over buying now. Many companies have tried it and typically lose because of it. Its sad but once you get price heavy like GW has there is no real way to go back.

Truth.

Well, they could simply put a halt on their price rises.
That at least would have held onto the current customers rather than continuing to shrink their own market. Instead they continue to raise prices far in excess of inflation. The smaller their market becomes, the less stable it is.

Though their prices raises have been a bit excessive, they have not all been unjustified.

Inflation goes along at 2-3% per year. Oil prices increase, making their plastics less profitable. Tin prices increase, which made their metals less profitable. They have to increase prices at least at a moderate rate to not end up losing profit over time.

Not to say that all their price increases are justified, but they must do some amount.

ph34r wrote:Though their prices raises have been a bit excessive, they have not all been unjustified.

Inflation goes along at 2-3% per year. Oil prices increase, making their plastics less profitable. Tin prices increase, which made their metals less profitable. They have to increase prices at least at a moderate rate to not end up losing profit over time.

Not to say that all their price increases are justified, but they must do some amount.

I think you are completely overlooking the part of the thread where people have already noted that GW raise their prices far, far in excess of inflation (if it isn't in this thread I apologise, as there have been many, MANY threads on this topic over the past 6 months). All you need to do is look at the recent bout of price rises to ascertain this. Cadian Guard? Khorne Bezerkers? These aren't new kits by any stretch of the imagination and simply *must* have paid for themselves multiple times over by now, so what justifies the increase? Furthermore, how is a 25%price increase justified on any level? Especially considering the current economic climate.

L. Wrex

1. Release expensive game system.
2. Drop price months later.
3. Profit from game system sales.
3 easy steps for good sales.

Don't forget that if GW suddenly lowered their prices, the resellers would also be selling at lower price.

Dropping prices may have some effect, but it won't drive people to buy direct from GW all of a sudden. They will still purchase from whichever store has the best percentage off MSRP / RRP.

ph34r wrote:The thing about GW decreasing prices is that for every 1% price decrease they give us, they suffer a 2 or 3% decrease in profit. And how much do you think it would take for us players to care? 5%? 10%? On the grand scheme of things that is costing GW 10 or 20% of their profit. What would you do as CFO if one of your people suggested cutting your profits by 20%?

Well here is a plan...

We all go into RPG's and never come back untill it costs £1 for box of marines and give out vouchers as well.

Plan eh?

I've noticed on Amazon that more and more prices are dropping on a regular basis. Before you say it yes I know the market place does offer cheaper prices but even allowing for the postage most of the traders are still discounting well below normal. For instance a Space marine tactical squad on offer for £16.50 and that includes postage. That is a saving of almost £7.00. I myself bought a marine predator and its chaos equivalent for £36.00.
I will say that it's not happening across the board on all GW product but these low offers are more frequent rather than being just one-offs, and I think it boils down to this: retailers are struggling to sell GW stuff. More recently I got 4 boxes of chaos marines for £40.00 and no postage.

Ascalam wrote:Given that they are beginning to lose players (and likely have been for years) at an ever increasing rate they might consider it worth the loss to maintain the customer base.

Probably not though..

They've "been losing players" since at least 1992.

You'd think there wouldn't be any left at all by now.

I gasped and metaphorically ran to the source of joy when I first read the title of this thread, and am now I am sadly wandering back to my shelter of despair after realising the false alarm.

Phobos wrote:Don't forget that if GW suddenly lowered their prices, the resellers would also be selling at lower price.

Dropping prices may have some effect, but it won't drive people to buy direct from GW all of a sudden. They will still purchase from whichever store has the best percentage off MSRP / RRP.

No, but it would provide an incentive for them to purchase GW goods rather than goods from other miniature wargaming companies, it is known economics that a decrease in prices results in an increase in demand, this will see an increase in the number of goods purchased from both GW directly and from independent retailers, and although GW make a larger profit by selling goods directly, there is still profit to be made from selling via independent retailers, and companies are motivated by profit.