Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Jackster wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:I was going to post something about Templars, but then I realized that every single unit in the Codex has a use. Go figure.

Techmarine?

Techmarine with Storm Shield and Harness and you've got a nasty bugger to boost a squad's fighting potential. The Signum really helps if you really, really need to get a melta hit too.

For Orks, the Weird Boy is even more useless than Flash Gitz.

Two out of his 6 possible powers are good. On top of that he has to roll randomly for them every turn, which includes an option to blow himself up. On top of that, his LD sucks so he relies on being in a large group of Boyz to even "reliably" use these crappy abilities to begin with. On top of that, he's expensive.

He's fun(ny) but other than that totally useless. Worse than anything in the codex.

Eldar's worst unit is by far Pathfinders.

120 points of nothing. nada. 24 points for a model with a sniper rifle. low volume of fire and damage output, low speed, incredibly susceptible to flamers and fast assault units... just worthless- you might as well call them gargoyle bait and leave it at that.

Swooping Hawks, the infamous flying guardsmen for 21 points a model. Worlds better than Pathfinders. Hawks can at least sky leap every turn, and then move to contest at the end of the game. That could potentially win you a game!

Shining Spears, the infamous close combat juggernauts who are as durable as a tactical space marine, and utterly worthless whenever they aren't charging. But if all things go right they can do some real damage on a charge, and they at least have some tools- like withdraw- to help them in extract and re enter close combat. They also have movement, and jetbikes can help them use LoS blocking terrain. Slightly better than Pathfinders... lol

Dark Reapers- expensive models armed with guns that aren't great against transports. s5 ap3 > Sniper Rifles. Dark Reapers might actually kill something with their guns, and their 3+ armor means they won't instant die as soon as a flamer wanders over.

The difference is that- while bad- the Aspect warriors have the ability to do... something...

I'll actually defend the legion of the damned for the SM. 10 pts less per pop compared to a TH/SS termy and they have the same save. I love to DS these guys in and flash a couple meltas around before forcing someone to tie them up or let them keep gunning away. Possibly my most enjoyable tarpit unit since they can shoot and are 3/4 the cost of their counterparts.

Jackster wrote:
SW: Fenrisen Wolves: Easy to kill and cant score.

The thing about Fenrisian Wolves is that they're a horde unit in a MEQ army. You really need Canis Wolfborne to make them work. Since Canis is making them Troops, they're not competing with Thunderwolf Cavalry for Fast Attack slots. Take 3 or 4 maxed-out packs (and some Grey Hunters if you want scoring units), use the FW to screen your TWC/Thunderwolf-mounted Iron Priests/Canis and watch the blood and guts fly.

akaean wrote:Eldar's worst unit is by far Pathfinders.

120 points of nothing. nada. 24 points for a model with a sniper rifle. low volume of fire and damage output, low speed, incredibly susceptible to flamers and fast assault units... just worthless- you might as well call them gargoyle bait and leave it at that.

Swooping Hawks, the infamous flying guardsmen for 21 points a model. Worlds better than Pathfinders. Hawks can at least sky leap every turn, and then move to contest at the end of the game. That could potentially win you a game!

Shining Spears, the infamous close combat juggernauts who are as durable as a tactical space marine, and utterly worthless whenever they aren't charging. But if all things go right they can do some real damage on a charge, and they at least have some tools- like withdraw- to help them in extract and re enter close combat. They also have movement, and jetbikes can help them use LoS blocking terrain. Slightly better than Pathfinders... lol

Dark Reapers- expensive models armed with guns that aren't great against transports. s5 ap3 > Sniper Rifles. Dark Reapers might actually kill something with their guns, and their 3+ armor means they won't instant die as soon as a flamer wanders over.

The difference is that- while bad- the Aspect warriors have the ability to do... something...

Pathfinders are scoring and get a 2+ cover save because of their über-stealth. I'll let you figure the rest out.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

akaean wrote:Eldar's worst unit is by far Pathfinders.

120 points of nothing. nada. 24 points for a model with a sniper rifle. low volume of fire and damage output, low speed, incredibly susceptible to flamers and fast assault units... just worthless- you might as well call them gargoyle bait and leave it at that.

Swooping Hawks, the infamous flying guardsmen for 21 points a model. Worlds better than Pathfinders. Hawks can at least sky leap every turn, and then move to contest at the end of the game. That could potentially win you a game!

Shining Spears, the infamous close combat juggernauts who are as durable as a tactical space marine, and utterly worthless whenever they aren't charging. But if all things go right they can do some real damage on a charge, and they at least have some tools- like withdraw- to help them in extract and re enter close combat. They also have movement, and jetbikes can help them use LoS blocking terrain. Slightly better than Pathfinders... lol

Dark Reapers- expensive models armed with guns that aren't great against transports. s5 ap3 > Sniper Rifles. Dark Reapers might actually kill something with their guns, and their 3+ armor means they won't instant die as soon as a flamer wanders over.

The difference is that- while bad- the Aspect warriors have the ability to do... something...

Pathfinders are scoring and get a 2+ cover save because of their über-stealth. I'll let you figure the rest out.

And? Any fast moving assault unit is in their face in no time, and they have no way of avoiding it. On top of that, all you can do is pray if they have a flamer. A single normal flamer will ignore that wasted 2+ cover and their pitiful 5+ armor. For an army that relies on speed to survive, the pathfinders just don't cut it.

SM have a couple of utterly unplayable units.
-Legion of the damned is a freaking joke, other things perform better at less points.
-Vanguard vets are just way to expensive.
-Sniper scouts, no reason to take something that cant kill anything and is static and terrain dependent the whole game.
-Tacs, suck at everything and get trashed by anything, people only take tacs because they must and because scouts are even worse.
-Devastator squads, who ever takes these units, every SM chapter codex after SM has better "devastator" equivalents. 50+ points for a stationary lascannon marine with a SM tac statline? Really?
-Honour guards. Expensive marines that require a crap HQ to be taken and that you need to dump even more points into (a librarian) in order to get them a unreliable and weak inv save. Never seen used and that for a good reason. Useless.

Grey knights:
There are some units that are pure crap and never seen in other then fun fool-around games.
-Jokaero. Banana monkeys nobody takes due to insane point costs for what little they do.
-Psycher squads. Worthless with all the Ld nerfing armies out there.
-Banishers. Really?
-Deamonhosts. Might want to use randomised grots driving randomised trukks instead, you never know what will happen and thus cannot plan or rely on them one bit.
-Purgation squads. Ever seen one of them taken...ever? Non deepstrike stationary minis with overpriced weapons and a power never used while taking up a heavy slot? Don't think so.
-GK Captains. Never, ever seen any and there is a good reason for that. Overpriced and over shadowed to say the least.


I mean the awful useless crap that passes in each and every codex, even the most popular ones like the SM codex is gakking staggering. Who are GW hireing for the codex unit balance anyway. You can teach slowed monkeys to do a better job using random number generators...an you only need to pay them in fruit.
The result is the same every time, 30% of the units/wargear ends up n e v e are being taken due to total uselessness.

This is just based on my experiences with these armies:

Chaos Space Marines - Bikers, Raptors, Spawn
Grey Knights - Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
Imperial Guard - Techpriest, Ratlings (as far as snipers go, they're good, but snipers are weak in general), Leman Russ Punisher, Deathstrike Missile Launcher (what a piece of garbage), Penal Legionares, Mogul Kamir, Griffon (why would you waste a Heavy Support slot with this?)
Necrons - Pariahs, Heavy Destroyers
Space Marines - Chapter Master (not worth the +25pts), Techmarine, Vanguard Veterans, Honour Guard, Whirlwind
Space Wolves - Wolf Guard Battle Leader, Iron Priest, Lukas the Trickster (he costs as more than the squad he comes with!), Skyclaws, Swiftclaws, Ulrik the Slayer, Whirlwind
Tau - Vespid apparently, Aun'Va, Etherials
Tyranids - Pyrovore (duh), Ripper Swarms (garbage), Lictor, Old One Eye (NOT worth his points by any stretch of the imagination), Sky-slasher Swarm

Chowderhead wrote:I'm going to go with the Shooty Terminators





*Ducks*

Yeah... tactical terminators can be amazing if used properly. Taking 5 of them with no upgrades is probably going to suck, but 10 of them with a couple cyclone launchers and a couple chainfists is a solid core for an army.

In Codex Space Marine, I'm going with Servitors. I mean really... are they good for anything, ever? Maybe in a giant apocalypse game with a bunch of landraiders or something....

-Myst

Pyrovores for the nids, no explanation needed.
I find that scarab swarms might be the least usefull unit in the cron'dex. Either them or flayed ones. At least ripper swarms can be tunnelers.

I'd have to say every special character in codex: GK. They are all either way to expensive points wise, or just have horrible/useless special rules. All the Inquisitorial henchmen also make this list as discussed earlier. The Dreadknight is a an expensive terminator armor on steroids.

GreyChaos wrote:I'll actually defend the legion of the damned for the SM. 10 pts less per pop compared to a TH/SS termy and they have the same save. I love to DS these guys in and flash a couple meltas around before forcing someone to tie them up or let them keep gunning away. Possibly my most enjoyable tarpit unit since they can shoot and are 3/4 the cost of their counterparts.

I'm going to (relatively) agree with you on this. IDK why people say they suck that much. They aren't awful, and they pale in comparison to some of the other choices. The legion are more of a fluff choice, so they are understandably expensive. But honestly, I would pay to have some storm shield termies running around with Multi-meltas all the time. It could be all sorts of fun.

Chowderhead wrote:I'm going to go with the Shooty Terminators





*Ducks*

*swings his bat* *misses*
God damn it!

Shooty terminators are 50x better than vanguard veterans.

With all the hate going to CSM spawn.....I'm going to make a list centered around them.....and WIN!!!

DA:assault marines by far. They fail in cc , are expensive and lack good weapon options.
Tactical marines can do laserbackspam and scouts can actually hit things.

SM:Can I go for servitors? Other units have their places, assault marines do not work but still have their place. But servitors even for a cheap unit are a waste. Maybe running them in a landraider with a techamarine so they can charge tanks and repair the landraider.

Murrdox wrote:For Orks, the Weird Boy is even more useless than Flash Gitz.

Two out of his 6 possible powers are good. On top of that he has to roll randomly for them every turn, which includes an option to blow himself up. On top of that, his LD sucks so he relies on being in a large group of Boyz to even "reliably" use these crappy abilities to begin with. On top of that, he's expensive.

He's fun(ny) but other than that totally useless. Worse than anything in the codex.

You should try playing with him. He's cheap the only issue is he takes up a HQ slot and he is a little random. I find in most games he achieves awesomeness unlike meks with kff who have awesomeness thrust upon them.

Secondly have you played with flash gits? They are best used in cc despite being a shooting unit and take up a heavy slot.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Grey Knights - Ordo Xenos Inquisitor

Wait what? The one Inquisitor that has access to banana-crazy grenades?

Pyriel- wrote:-Jokaero. Banana monkeys nobody takes due to insane point costs for what little they do.

One day I intend to make a 1500 point Grey Knight force of 40 Jokaero and Coteaz.

Possibly with the option of having coteaz a countsas jokearo that's stolen some armour.
And probably with something stupid like the option to bring it up to 2000pts with a 'looted' jokearo storm raven. (a pair of jokaero for pilots, the guns jokaero hanging off it etc)

But yeah monkey army. It's the only option I'd take in a GK force

Dark Eldar it's mandrakes and how. All they'd need is either 2 wounds, to start with a pain token, a better CC attack (even if it was rending or something) or to have Kherudrakh be an independant character. Any one of those would make them usable... but as is not so much.

IG: How about the Rough Riders?

Rampage wrote:IG: How about the Rough Riders?

Rough Rider are good anti-charge unit, they just don't get much credit because they share the same slot as Vandettas

GreyChaos wrote:I'll actually defend the legion of the damned for the SM. 10 pts less per pop compared to a TH/SS termy and they have the same save. I love to DS these guys in and flash a couple meltas around before forcing someone to tie them up or let them keep gunning away. Possibly my most enjoyable tarpit unit since they can shoot and are 3/4 the cost of their counterparts.

3++ is most definitely not the same as a 2+/3++ save.

Amanax wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

akaean wrote:Eldar's worst unit is by far Pathfinders.

120 points of nothing. nada. 24 points for a model with a sniper rifle. low volume of fire and damage output, low speed, incredibly susceptible to flamers and fast assault units... just worthless- you might as well call them gargoyle bait and leave it at that.

Swooping Hawks, the infamous flying guardsmen for 21 points a model. Worlds better than Pathfinders. Hawks can at least sky leap every turn, and then move to contest at the end of the game. That could potentially win you a game!

Shining Spears, the infamous close combat juggernauts who are as durable as a tactical space marine, and utterly worthless whenever they aren't charging. But if all things go right they can do some real damage on a charge, and they at least have some tools- like withdraw- to help them in extract and re enter close combat. They also have movement, and jetbikes can help them use LoS blocking terrain. Slightly better than Pathfinders... lol

Dark Reapers- expensive models armed with guns that aren't great against transports. s5 ap3 > Sniper Rifles. Dark Reapers might actually kill something with their guns, and their 3+ armor means they won't instant die as soon as a flamer wanders over.

The difference is that- while bad- the Aspect warriors have the ability to do... something...

Pathfinders are scoring and get a 2+ cover save because of their über-stealth. I'll let you figure the rest out.

And? Any fast moving assault unit is in their face in no time, and they have no way of avoiding it. On top of that, all you can do is pray if they have a flamer. A single normal flamer will ignore that wasted 2+ cover and their pitiful 5+ armor. For an army that relies on speed to survive, the pathfinders just don't cut it.

They DO have a way of avoiding it as no fast moving assult unit should be able to get anywhere near them if you play Eldar right. The Eldar have ways of stopping fast moving assult units in their tracks. And I've done it on innumerable occasions. They aren't anywhere near as bad as I've heard tons of people on the internet proclaim. But they do take practise to get the best use from them. One of the best ways for stopping fast moving assulters?...Night Spinners, Pinning Weapons, blocking, putting them in middle floors on buildings so it takes a while for the fast moving units to get to them. There are plenty of ways of mitigating fast movers.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:This is just based on my experiences with these armies:

Space Wolves - Iron Priest

I'm just going to repeat what I said in another thread about the Iron Priest:

Teln wrote:Putting an Iron Priest on a Thunderwolf Mount gives you a S10 Thunder Hammer that can move up to two feet in a single turn and still assault. Give him a pack of Cyberwolves to act as ablative wounds, and you've almost got a Thunderwolf Cavalry unit, except it's taking up an Elites slot, instead of a FA slot. Let me say that again: This does not compete with TWC for Force Organization slots.

Iron priest with shooty servitors is not too bad either though mounted is the way to go. Skyclaws headstrong makes them too hard to control and gets my vote.

tedurur wrote:

GreyChaos wrote:I'll actually defend the legion of the damned for the SM. 10 pts less per pop compared to a TH/SS termy and they have the same save. I love to DS these guys in and flash a couple meltas around before forcing someone to tie them up or let them keep gunning away. Possibly my most enjoyable tarpit unit since they can shoot and are 3/4 the cost of their counterparts.

3++ is most definitely not the same as a 2+/3++ save.

He made a bad comparison.
I would compare them to drop podding AoBR dreads. They both land and can multimelt stuff when they land. 3++ makes them better than a dread.
If you use tigerius you reserve your entire army, try to bring everything on in turn 2 and use the Legion of damned as your drop podding melting dreads.
Or with Vulkan they come quite nasty.

In either case not really the most useless, maybe a tad expensive granted, but most certainly the prettiest.

severedblue wrote:
Daemons: Furies

I disagree, beast of nurgle is way more useless than furies. Furies are jump infantry, and are useful for board control in an army which is relatively highly un-mobile. Beast of nurgle, though, is slow, not really that tough, and not worth the points, not reliable to do damage, unless maybe your running a tallyman list. Furies can at least deny an area for your opponent, or jump over meat shields to tie up HW/shooty squads.

Jihallah wrote:

severedblue wrote:
Daemons: Furies

I disagree, beast of nurgle is way more useless than furies. Furies are jump infantry, and are useful for board control in an army which is relatively highly un-mobile. Beast of nurgle, though, is slow, not really that tough, and not worth the points, not reliable to do damage, unless maybe your running a tallyman list. Furies can at least deny an area for your opponent, or jump over meat shields to tie up HW/shooty squads.

Theyre about the same in my scale, they all DS so they can all "get there"

I disagree. Raptors can act like small anti-tank squads. They can be in squads of 5 and be given 2 meltaguns, for 120 pts including being jump infantry. OR you can get some 10-15 man squad and give them MoN. T5 Jump Infantry is no laughing matter.

Teln wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:This is just based on my experiences with these armies:

Space Wolves - Iron Priest

I'm just going to repeat what I said in another thread about the Iron Priest:

Teln wrote:Putting an Iron Priest on a Thunderwolf Mount gives you a S10 Thunder Hammer that can move up to two feet in a single turn and still assault. Give him a pack of Cyberwolves to act as ablative wounds, and you've almost got a Thunderwolf Cavalry unit, except it's taking up an Elites slot, instead of a FA slot. Let me say that again: This does not compete with TWC for Force Organization slots.

In pretty much any other set-up, Iron Priests are crap. The only reason you'd take them is because you're running more than 15 Thunderwolves.

IG- deathstrikes
SM- vanguard veterans/shooty terminators

Teufelhunde wrote:I
Grey Knights....eh? I guess the Brotherhood Champion? 100 pts for an HQ with one wound....I find that hard to justify.

Isnt the champion the guy who can one hit kill anything he touches? Like, Greater Demons?