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If you can get up to that much OP and bad fluff, while still being playable is when you know you are doing well for yourself.

Judging a chapter master based on an Apoc game where he was charged by a 600(?) point model is kind of voiding your whole argument.

Marneus Calgarwould have taken it to town.

Dante is an old man that becomes battle weary when fighting against necrons.
IMO he is the biggest pushover I have ever read about. I honestly see nothing heroic or cool about him. they even describe him as being tired of battle because he has seen so much of it? so he is tired of what he was made for?!?!
I think I know why he has lived so long! he spent to much time resting because he gets so "weary" all the time instead of actually fighting.

He also doesn't have EW because all you have to do is hit him hard enough and he becomes "weary" and has fallen and can't get up. probably broke his hip.
They should rename him to: Dante Grandpa Master of the blood angels.

The only thing he needs in my opinion is eternal warrior however otherwise he is really goods aloow sanguinary guard as troops and being able to bang down just where you them he is very effective and hes not bad on his own mine killed a 10 strong squad of sisters after his squad got blown up. I my opinion he is a good chapter master and suits the blood angels style of play.

Some of the one's the Badab War are pretty bad. Poor Red Wake turning my army into a bad BA army.

How can a character that cripples enemy commanders be called useless? Come to think of it how the hell can that whoosy blood angel effect Abaddon's stats? Abaddon could crush Dante and is certainly not going to be scared of his mask! Lesser commanders yes but There should be a limit on who the mask can effect. (Not unique characters for example!)

monkeypuzzle wrote:How can a character that cripples enemy commanders be called useless? Come to think of it how the hell can that whoosy blood angel effect Abaddon's stats? Abaddon could crush Dante and is certainly not going to be scared of his mask! Lesser commanders yes but There should be a limit on who the mask can effect. (Not unique characters for example!)

It's the mask of Sanguinius and he'd kick Failaddon's ass!
And yes, Dante really deserves EW.

Deadshot wrote:When have you ever sdeen someone take Calgar without TDA? Too easy to kill other wise, plus the unique banner bearer yoiu get with him.

The model without has been released. again.


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GamzaTheChaos wrote:Dante is an old man that becomes battle weary when fighting against necrons.
IMO he is the biggest pushover I have ever read about. I honestly see nothing heroic or cool about him. they even describe him as being tired of battle because he has seen so much of it? so he is tired of what he was made for?!?!
I think I know why he has lived so long! he spent to much time resting because he gets so "weary" all the time instead of actually fighting.

He also doesn't have EW because all you have to do is hit him hard enough and he becomes "weary" and has fallen and can't get up. probably broke his hip.
They should rename him to: Dante Grandpa Master of the blood angels.

Id like to ask you to fight for a 2000 years of eternal battle
As for EW, thats were we have good ol' Sanguinor for.

Deadshot wrote:Compared to Logan and Calgar, and Draigo, he isn't up to scratch. Helbretch looks like he is wearinfg some pretty heavy armour.


Maybe it was the Deathwing master I was thinking of.



The reason I have said this is because in a relatively recent apoc game, turn 6. I took command of a Stompa asnd charged Dante with its TCCW. Killed him in 1 shot. Hit with about 3 attacks and he failed a save.


Before he could do anything.

You put a ~500-600pt superheavy walker against a 225pt T4 IC...what did you expect? Seriously? That's how you're judging Dante? That makes absolutely no sense.

Calgar wouldn't have won that fight either without some rather ridiculous luck.

Also, TCCW's can only be used against other superheavies IIRC, otherwise the Superheavy uses its Stomp attack.

Deadshot wrote:

I haven't included Seth and Kantor here. They are just extra bits for those who don't want a Blood Angel, BA army, or an Ultra amrine C:SM army.

So you say?

In any case, the entire question is largely a foregone conclusion if you ask if "X" is the worst of a group "Y", which by some arbitrary definition does not include anything weaker than "X". Of course "X" will then be the weakest by definition.

Vaktathi wrote:You put a ~500-600pt superheavy walker against a 225pt T4 IC...what did you expect? Seriously? That's how you're judging Dante? That makes absolutely no sense.

Calgar wouldn't have won that fight either without some rather ridiculous luck.

Also, TCCW's can only be used against other superheavies IIRC, otherwise the Superheavy uses its Stomp attack.

That limitation only applies to very large titans, for example warlord and up. A klawstompa has no problem punchin a gretchin with a wrecking ball of the size of a landraider.

I dont' remember exactly what Stompa's have but when a "TCCW" was referenced, that usually means the one that can only attack other superheavies I thought right?

Very few chapter masters have eternal warrior. The newer codexes have it EVERYWHERE. Meanwhile luscious the ETERNAL doesn't have it. Nor does a standard chapter master. Or many named Hq's, Hell, some marine Hq's don't even have a invun save.

There's nothing wrong with Dante's rules. The miniature could do with an update, mind you...

GamzaTheChaos wrote:Dante is an old man that becomes battle weary when fighting against necrons.
IMO he is the biggest pushover I have ever read about. I honestly see nothing heroic or cool about him. they even describe him as being tired of battle because he has seen so much of it? so he is tired of what he was made for?!?!
I think I know why he has lived so long! he spent to much time resting because he gets so "weary" all the time instead of actually fighting.

He also doesn't have EW because all you have to do is hit him hard enough and he becomes "weary" and has fallen and can't get up. probably broke his hip.
They should rename him to: Dante Grandpa Master of the blood angels.

He's over 1200 years old, the oldest Space Marine not interred in a Dreadnought. He hasn't spent most of that in the time dilating realm of the Warp, like Lysander, he's probably been fighting for near 2000 years. And yet, he's still going, because he has a purpose. First bit you missed out. Second one is when Dante fought and killed one of Khorne's most powerful servants. Alone. And when two of the most revered Space Marine yet bowed to him and sought his guidance in a warzone. Not many people can gain the respect and submission of Calgar, but Dante did through experience and battle prowess.
Thought I'd get that out there.

juraigamer wrote:Meanwhile luscious the ETERNAL doesn't have it. Nor does a standard chapter master. Or many named Hq's, Hell, some marine Hq's don't even have a invun save.

Well, giving Lucius the Eternal the Eternal Warrior ability would rather contradict his background. After all, he HAS died, died often and will most likely continue to do so (with his killer then becoming the "new" Lucius).

Surely, some fluffy rule that reflects this little story would be awsome.. perhaps something similar to Lucas the Trickster's Last Laugh, only you get to trade in Lucius for the mini that killed him or some such.. but EW as a rule would invalidate the entire story. He couldn't ever have become "the Eternal" if he hadn't died before.

The contingency of the same word "eternal" (in, respectively, two entirely different types of context), doesn't mean they go well together from a fluff-perspective.

The points you use to invalidate Dante are not very strong, Deadshot.

1. Dante should have gone first vs the stompa, you said he didn't get the chance to go.

2. The stompa could only stomp dante, not use his TCCW so you accidentally cheated

3. Dante has a terminator armour equivalent, with better deepstrike

4. He uses mask of Sanguinus to be the @!?# out of those other "better" HQs

5. You judge him by putting him up against a 600 point ork model? Don't you know that the orks always win?

Honestly the only problem with Dante is his lack of EW, otherwise, he seems really good.

1-The Stompa's front armour was too tough for Dante to damage.

2-That rule only applies to Reaver and Warlord Titans. It is commonly misinterpreted as the ruler for the TCCW.

3-Terminator armour makes the man. Articer armour is the "lesser" version of Terminator armour.

4-True, but certain armies can negate this, such as Nids with no Primes.

5-No arguments there.




My arguement was based on false info and bad intel. Ignore all that I have said, thiough I still feel he is lacking in the department of Chapter masters. I would much rather have Seth.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

Psienesis wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:I didn't know Dante was a the Worst Chapter Hamster.

The Emperor protects... and changes his water-bottle frequently!

Even though Space Marines do not need another Codex, I would kill for a Space Marine Hamster Codex.

But only if they wear their shoulder pads the right way round!

Dante is awesomely rude due to the facts/rules already stated!

I thank you all for defending his honour!

Deadshot wrote:3-Terminator armour makes the man. Articer armour is the "lesser" version of Terminator armour.

Uh, no? Artificer armor is more rare than terminator armor, harder to make, more valuable, and certainly not 'lesser'. It gives the same protection minus the weak force field, but gives greatly enhanced mobility over terminator armor, which in this case is put to great use by Dante with his JP and non scattering DS. You act like Dante couldn't take a suit of TDA if he wanted, the guy is a thousand years old and head of one of the most respected chapters. He chooses to wear his 'lesser' armor because it is in fact much better. AND, if we're just taking about in game stats, as many people have pointed out he has a 2+/4++ anyway, so why whine about him not having terminator armor? All it would do is take away his jump pack and make him unable to sweeping advance. Really, I would take artificer armor over TDA any day of the week, in fluff and in game. I really don't see where you got this idea from, unless you're just a huge terminator fanboy. Artificer armor is clearly superior.

Deadshot wrote:1-The Stompa's front armour was too tough for Dante to damage.

Dude...it's a titan, what did you expect?

Duh, that was why I did it.


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Read the previous post by Lord Magnus.

Your crabbing about Dante? What about Pedro Kantor? Love his fluff, his mini rules, meh.......

Deadshot wrote:Marneus Calgarwould have taken it to town.

Marneus Calgar has a pair of powerfists. Those tend to kill anything.

Man, I dont even know where to begin defending Dante as a Chapter Master when the OP's arguments against him are baseless, highly opinionated, and are formed on a mish-mash of misinterpreted rules and fluff.

So Im just going to say, jetpack + blinged out nipple artificer armour > terminator armour. Any day of the fething week.

What, when all Marny could have done was glance the AV14 stompa?

Hardly "taking it to town". He'd have barely scratched it.

Dante is very, very good for his points, and makes a DoA army truly scary.

Putting the FAST ASSAULT army's chapter master in Terminator Armour is counter-productive. Artificer Armour + Jump Pack beats out Terminator Armour without fail in a BA list.

Hit & Run, Tactical Precision, Death Mask of Sanguinius, Melta Pistol, Sanguinary Guard as troops. Eternal Warrior is the only thing he is lacking to be honest. And that is mostly due to his fluff, not necessarily a weakness of his TT rules.

He should always be attached to some sort of squad to make best use of his rules, and should that squad contain a Sanguinary Priest he gains Furious Charge and Feel No Pain. How many chapter masters gain +1WS, +1I, and Feel No Pain from being paired with their Honour Guard?

Orblivion wrote:Putting the FAST ASSAULT army's chapter master in Terminator Armour is counter-productive. Artificer Armour + Jump Pack beats out Terminator Armour without fail in a BA list.

Hit & Run, Tactical Precision, Death Mask of Sanguinius, Melta Pistol, Sanguinary Guard as troops. Eternal Warrior is the only thing he is lacking to be honest. And that is mostly due to his fluff, not necessarily a weakness of his TT rules.

He should always be attached to some sort of squad to make best use of his rules, and should that squad contain a Sanguinary Priest he gains Furious Charge and Feel No Pain. How many chapter masters gain +1WS, +1I, and Feel No Pain from being paired with their Honour Guard?

You can have 2 IC in a squad?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Orblivion wrote:Putting the FAST ASSAULT army's chapter master in Terminator Armour is counter-productive. Artificer Armour + Jump Pack beats out Terminator Armour without fail in a BA list.

Hit & Run, Tactical Precision, Death Mask of Sanguinius, Melta Pistol, Sanguinary Guard as troops. Eternal Warrior is the only thing he is lacking to be honest. And that is mostly due to his fluff, not necessarily a weakness of his TT rules.

He should always be attached to some sort of squad to make best use of his rules, and should that squad contain a Sanguinary Priest he gains Furious Charge and Feel No Pain. How many chapter masters gain +1WS, +1I, and Feel No Pain from being paired with their Honour Guard?

You can have 2 IC in a squad?

Yes you can, but regardless the BA Honour Guard comes with a Sanguinary Novitiate, who provides the same bonuses as the Sanguinary Priests.