Lure of Chaos Vs. The Greater Good

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**Jollydevil**

All hypnotic powers aside, chaos takes the cake no contest. Eternal life, power, knowledge, pleasure...
The list will go on and on with chaos. Tau greater good? Whats the gain here?
The greater good just doesnt have enough to offer when going up against the temptations of chaos.

**Sparks_Havelock**

...especially when Slaanesh is making the offer.

**CpatTom**

yamgrenade wrote:
DeffDred wrote:Why has no one read Xeneology?

It's like the conerstone of the 40k universe for the 3rd and 4th (maybe 5th) editions.

It lays out the main races aswell as others you haven't heard of. It's the book that clearly describes how the Kroot have a second brain in their stomach.
It shows how thick an Ork skull is, genestealers have a million tyranids living in their throats, all tyranids have a baby ripper inside, Necrons could talk and have emotions before this new codex next month,
Eldar poop crystals, all kinds of fun facts.

The two major points the book brings up are: Tau are a pet prodject of the Eldar to try to continue the Ancient Ones plans, and the tablet that shows the Ancient Ones creating the other races and fighting the C'Tan... all the while giving power (or something) to a human fetus in a star (Star Child? Emperor?).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Because it's by no means confirmed.

It's always been hinted that the Old Ones created the Tau and protected them with the Warp Storm. It explains the 'affection' that the Eldar feel towards the Tau, in that they're the progeny of a dead race.

The Tau are 2000 years old. The Ancient Ones had long since been destroyed (or sent into hidding).
I'm not jumping to conclusions. I'm making the only logical ones. Just read the book.

Tau CODEX Page 4

...The Tau are a young race, barely 6000 years old...
The fact that they got something that simple wrong kinda hints that they're making stuff up.

I think that the Xenology puts Etherals at 2000, not the Tau as a whole (I could be way off base with that one, but the timeline would roughly work I think, 2000 years to go from sticking each other to Gundams under Space Pope rule)

p.s. The only reason Aun'Va pushed tech was to get his pope moblie.

**DeffDred**

Definatly one of the best books they wrote. I'm still curious why Tau have vertical rib cages.

I'd like to make an army of Umbra lol. Just a bunch of floating black marbles.

**Maniac_nmt**

DeffDred wrote:
Tau were never modified or engineered to my knowledge

Tau where engineered by the Eldar and the Ethereals are modified by the Eldar into a leader caste.

Water Caste atempts to lure allies or convince enemies to give up. (Slaanesh)
Air Caste is slowly mutating from the lack of gravity in their lives. (Tzeentch)
Fire Caste makes war. (Khorne)
Earth Caste is slowly helping the Tau expand and absorb throughout their area of the galaxy. (Nurgle)
Ethereal Caste united the other castes. (Undivided)

The Tau are like a "sane" version of Chaos. They evolved rapidly and changed into 4 species. (powers Tzeentch)
They expand from their homeworld by convincing the other races they meet to join, all the while keeping secrets. (powers Slaanesh)
They spread slowly and bring about the downfall of societies by either absorbing them or detroying them. (powers Nurgle)
They make war upon the Orks and Imperium and suffer from a condition where they may go into a rage. (duh Khorne)

I'd guess that since the Ethereals use pheramones they most closely resemble Slaanesh followers.
This would make sence as they are a pet prodject of the Eldar and Slaanesh is all about bringing an end to the Eldar.

The Tau are ~6000 years old, their gene structure is mutable (notes this in the codex) to the point they will genetically mutate and develop to meet selective needs (the air caste used to glide on mebranous wings like a flying squirrel), and Ethereals can be resisted or outright ignored. The Tau are just heavily indoctrinated to not want to.

**DeffDred**

their gene structure is mutable (notes this in the codex) to the point they will genetically mutate and develop to meet selective needs (the air caste used to glide on mebranous wings like a flying squirrel),

So in about 200 years they'll have super strong hand to hand capabilities? I think all that mutating might have been a result of that warp storm they were in for 6000 years.

The Tau are ~6000 years old

My apologies, I meant 2000 years since they invented fire and tools (when the Adeptus Biologis first found T'au, btw the storms appeared after they left... suggesting that someone was watching and felt T'au needed to be protected).

**iproxtaco**

Or it was their mutable gene-structure, hence why the different Castes adapted to their environments.

**Jimsolo**

I think the Ethereals exert a kind of control similar to the Amplitur from Alan Dean Foster's The Damned trilogy. It's a combination of psychic/pheremonal influence, brainwashing via implanted messages in every facet of the Tau's daily lives, indoctrination through propaganda from the moment of birth, and tampering on a genetic level. They've been doing it for a long, long time, and the control they have is so ironclad it's almost impossible for any Tau to get off the leash. The rank and file members of the Tau race (in my opinion) lack the free will to even commit to Chaos anymore.

That's what makes the Tau so scary.

**BluntmanDC**

DeffDred wrote:
Because it's by no means confirmed.

It's always been hinted that the Old Ones created the Tau and protected them with the Warp Storm. It explains the 'affection' that the Eldar feel towards the Tau, in that they're the progeny of a dead race.

The Tau are 2000 years old. The Ancient Ones had long since been destroyed (or sent into hidding).
I'm not jumping to conclusions. I'm making the only logical ones. Just read the book.

A. Tau are ~6000 old
B. It is Old Ones
C. It is believed that the Eldar (not the Old Ones) modified the Tau race and created the Ethereals.

This is perfectly resonable an idea due to the fact that the Tau rapidly advanced, the differences between castes (bar Etherael) can be explained by the selective breeding that has gone on within the Tau.

**CpatTom**

BluntmanDC wrote:
DeffDred wrote:
Because it's by no means confirmed.

It's always been hinted that the Old Ones created the Tau and protected them with the Warp Storm. It explains the 'affection' that the Eldar feel towards the Tau, in that they're the progeny of a dead race.

The Tau are 2000 years old. The Ancient Ones had long since been destroyed (or sent into hidding).
I'm not jumping to conclusions. I'm making the only logical ones. Just read the book.

A. Tau are ~6000 old
B. It is Old Ones
C. It is believed that the Eldar (not the Old Ones) modified the Tau race and created the Ethereals.

This is perfectly resonable an idea due to the fact that the Tau rapidly advanced, the differences between castes (bar Etherael) can be explained by the selective breeding that has gone on within the Tau.

I would like to theorize that the Laughing God is in fact a surviving Old One(?), and used the Harlequins to steal the Q'orl queen to create the Tau, recognizing a race with limited ability to fall to the Chaotic Powers as the best way to save the Galaxy (The Tau live "THE IMPERIAL TRUTH", the Emperor's original plan to overcome Chaos)

**Durza**

Weren't the Old Ones an actual race though? Not gods I mean.

**CpatTom**

Durza wrote:Weren't the Old Ones an actual race though? Not gods I mean.

They were. It is possible for something to be called a God, and not actually be one. Especially with the level of Tech the Old Ones had (Not to mentoin the Laughing God knows all of the Webway, and the Old Ones made the Webway. Just a coincidence?

**happygolucky**

bombboy1252 wrote:
yamgrenade wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
yamgrenade wrote:
KilroyKiljoy wrote:Just wait until the new Codex. TAU PSYKERS/ANTIPSYKERS EVERYWHERE.

Hopefully they won't rape the fluff that much...

They will do worse. You know it's true.

Sadly.....I do

The fluff will be good if it's written by Ward, which it probably will...

Anyway, the Ethereals aren't as powerful as a Chaos god...It's just that chaos doesn't want Tau...except Khorne...he loves the Tau, theirs just SO good in close combat

I prey this was a sarcastic joke...

**Durza**

happygolucky wrote:
bombboy1252 wrote:The fluff will be good if it's written by Ward, which it probably will...

Anyway, the Ethereals aren't as powerful as a Chaos god...It's just that chaos doesn't want Tau...except Khorne...he loves the Tau, theirs just SO good in close combat

I prey this was a sarcastic joke...

Nope. He thinks Draigo's fluff is well written and fits in with what came before it.

**StormForged**

Chaos obviously. The Greater Good is more of a moral highground to keep the Tau Empire from collapsing on itself and by no means powerful enough to exert over other races.

With the Tau being so naturally blunt to the Warp, they don't understand it the way the imperium does and seek to observe it through controlled experiments (and to an extent, learn to use warp travel).

Remember the Fall of Medusa V? How Glorious was it for a Tau player to fight for sceintific study... :sarcasm:

So Chaos is stronger, but not strong enough to waver Tau mentally, since they have no connection to the warp at all.

**happygolucky**

God please spare him from ward fluff. so he likes BA teaming up with necrons and GK killing SoB, next you will tell me that the imperium is using monkeys as-

*thinks for a moment*

Thank Tzeench I chose CSM for an army...

Back to topic and Chaos wins HANDS DOWN!!!!
(mainly because when have tau been able to use daemons eh?).

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

StormForged wrote:So Chaos is stronger, but not strong enough to waver Tau mentally, since they have no connection to the warp at all.

Well, they have souls, and as such some connection to the Warp. Given time and prolonged exposure, some Tau will likely be corrupted.

**Durza**

Imagine Ward Chaos fluff...

Anyway, yeah... the Tau are resistant to Chaos purely because of their weak Warp connection, the Greater Good doesn't really do much to oppose it.

**CpatTom**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
StormForged wrote:So Chaos is stronger, but not strong enough to waver Tau mentally, since they have no connection to the warp at all.

Well, they have souls, and as such some connection to the Warp. Given time and prolonged exposure, some Tau will likely be corrupted.

The Grey Knights disprove this logic as a false.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:Imagine Ward Chaos fluff...

Anyway, yeah... the Tau are resistant to Chaos purely because of their weak Warp connection, the Greater Good doesn't really do much to oppose it.

What was the purpose of the Imperial Truth, that scared the Chaos Gods into intervening in the Materium?

**Durza**

Humans have a far greater warp presence than Tau and psykers. The Imperial Truth was an alternative to actively worshipping the Chaos Gods, which would give them far more power than passively performing acts like scheming and such which would give them comparatively tiny amounts of energy to feed on.

**Maniac_nmt**

DeffDred wrote:
their gene structure is mutable (notes this in the codex) to the point they will genetically mutate and develop to meet selective needs (the air caste used to glide on mebranous wings like a flying squirrel),

So in about 200 years they'll have super strong hand to hand capabilities? I think all that mutating might have been a result of that warp storm they were in for 6000 years.

The Tau are ~6000 years old

My apologies, I meant 2000 years since they invented fire and tools (when the Adeptus Biologis first found T'au, btw the storms appeared after they left... suggesting that someone was watching and felt T'au needed to be protected).

As noted though, the casts have always been different and mutated different to meet their niches. The Fire castes were plains dwellers and were always bigger and stronger. The air castes had 'wings' and now do not and are skeletal giants. In many respects the Tau are not unlike the Kroot in this aspect. The Kroot just mutate faster.

**Trondheim**

Chaos all the way, I dont recall the Tau trowing the enthier IoM into a massive civil war, or launching 13 black crusades.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

CpatTom wrote:
The Grey Knights disprove this logic as a false.

The Tau aren't protected from it in the same way. They don't have the armour or rituals, and neither do they have the training and all the stuff that hurts Daemons. They also aren't specifically told how to counter the influence of Chaos.

**iproxtaco**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
CpatTom wrote:
The Grey Knights disprove this logic as a false.

The Tau aren't protected from it in the same way. They don't have the armour or rituals, and neither do they have the training and all the stuff that hurts Daemons. They also aren't specifically told how to counter the influence of Chaos.

Or simply put, the Tau aren't Grey Knights.

**CpatTom**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Well, they have souls, and as such some connection to the Warp. Given time and prolonged exposure, some Tau will likely be corrupted.

The Tau aren't protected from it in the same way. They don't have the armour or rituals, and neither do they have the training and all the stuff that hurts Daemons. They also aren't specifically told how to counter the influence of Chaos.

My point still stands. The basis that Time and Exposure to Chaos (of which I assume the Grey Knights have had plenty), will eventually lead to corruption is false. Anything that has never happened over the course of thousands of years is not really a "likely" outcome.

The argument the Tau are not protected the same way and are thus more likely to succumb to Chaos is true, but The Emperor is more likely to succumb to Chaos than the Grey Knights.

**iproxtaco**

No he isn't. The Emperor was called the Anathema for a reason.

**Sovereign6**

I'm going to go with Chaos right now. We don't know enough (or I don't) about how the Tau work to say otherwise.

**CpatTom**

iproxtaco wrote:No he isn't. The Emperor was called the Anathema for a reason.

The Emperor created the Primarchs in his image. The Primarchs fell.

No Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos.

The Emperor is more likely to fall to Chaos.

Haha

**Jollydevil**

CpatTom wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:No he isn't. The Emperor was called the Anathema for a reason.

The Emperor created the Primarchs in his image. The Primarchs fell.

No Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos.

The Emperor is more likely to fall to Chaos.

Haha

The grey knights geneseed are taken from the emperor.

**Brother Coa**

CpatTom wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:No he isn't. The Emperor was called the Anathema for a reason.

The Emperor created the Primarchs in his image. The Primarchs fell.

No Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos.

The Emperor is more likely to fall to Chaos.

Haha

Grey Knights bear his Geenseed, they are like Primarchs only less powerful and had actual anti-Chaos training.
And the day the Emperor fall to Chaos is a day I bound my legs to the metal ball and drop that ball from the bridge in to the river.