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CpatTom wrote:
Are there any sources that show Tau being forced into the fold? I know there are a few leaders like Brightsword and Farsight who forsake the Greater Good, but are there any times when the regular Tau Joe doesnt (at the very least think) want to do there work for the Greater Good?

It's a line in the codex talking about how some species are draw into peace talks under threat of arm. It's one mention that easily gets ignored. I didn't notice it myself till someone pointed it out to me. Then i was like . Unless your talking about the tau species, then there is really only one (named) rebel tau. Most tau like/love working for the GG. Even brightsword he just got a little carried away.

CpatTom wrote:Are there any sources that show Tau being forced into the fold? I know there are a few leaders like Brightsword and Farsight who forsake the Greater Good, but are there any times when the regular Tau Joe doesnt (at the very least think) want to do there work for the Greater Good?

I dont think there is any coercion involved. From their point of view, anyone who does not accept the greater good, or who actively opposes it, is unenlightened and barbaric and backward. They need (and will) be brought into it by any means neccessary. For the tau themselves I doubt it ever comes up. Cultural pressures, educational propoganda and quite simply the way they are all seem to go towards creating the sort of conformity that holds Tau society together in the presence of Ethereals. Tau society is interesting in that the tau themselves, a a race have virutally no crime - they view crime as antisocial behaviour and those who have antisocial or aberrant behaviour need "help".

The fire warrior novel has some interesting comments in this regard.

FW, Page 21

Kais said nothing, sinking back into his deployment seat in astonishment at El’Lusha’s open disapproval of his own superiors. Had a shas’la ever dared express such sedition they could be guaranteed an intensive course in mental correction at the very least, not that any were foolish enough to do so.

FW, Page 56

The very existence of an edifice designed solely for the incarceration of the socially incompatible was beyond Lusha’s understanding. On T’au those few who failed to conform were considered worthy of sympathy and help, not punishment. He dismissed again the illogic of their conventions and regarded the brooding construct dispassionately.

FW, Page 120

Four tau’cyrs of policing the virtually crime-free streets of T’au, marching along its polished thoroughfares to protect its bright towers and domes from the terrors of antisocial behaviour.

the short of it is: Any tau who showed sign of straying from the "Greater Good" line too much would probably be 'corrected' - much in the same way you would fix a malfunctioning or broken machine, so it can continue to do its duty.
What's more, the bulk of the 'greater good' stuff - the discipline, the utter loyalty (especially to Ethereals), etc. is bound into the tau at the cultural or genetic level. The sort of thing that might make them want to break caste or not follow the greater good would be, to them, mental illness or sign of an actual inherent defect that needed guidance and correction. We have this from Deathwatch RPG:

Mark of the Xenos, page 6 wrote:
the Hunter Cadre, a group of Fire Warriors who serve together and are linked by unbreakable bonds of loyalty and duty. This in itself is not too different from the codes that bind such warriors as the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, but it is a bond ingrained not by tradition or psycho-conditioning, but, apparently, by genetics. Fire Warriors possess an innate sense of their place within the Greater Good, which is magnified by the presence of a member of the Ethereal Caste to extraordinary levels.

Now, before the outrage begins, I'm going to point out that what I said are not an effort to portray the Tau as being "lol evil" or "Tau suck" - this is simply how they are, and this is completely consistent with their mindset and beliefs insofar as it pertains to the greater good. The Tau view it as their solemn duty to share the Greater Good with the rest of the galaxy, because they believe that it will solve any and all problems. If people do not WANT to be in the Greater Good, it simply means they don't understand or really know where their best interests lay (but the Tau do) and they must be brought to understand what is best for them - by any means neccessary. The Greater Good excuses any action to achieve that end. For them, that is good and failing to bring the Greater Good to the unenlightened is evil.. it is failure.

All this also means that the only ones who will be 'forced' into submitting to the greater good are going to be non-Tau basically, and even in that regard they haven't had difficulty assimilating races (eg the Kroot - but then again they also let the Kroot eat dead sentients for their goal and for some reason that meshes in with their idea of unity and the greater good...)

Those sentients are dead. What harm is eating them going to do? It's just meat, after all.

If you look at the dietary habits of the Kroot from the Tau place of dispassionate observation and clinical, critical analysis, you can see it as simply a thing Kroot do. A Tau won't do it, of course, but a Tau doesn't have a need to do it. Besides, it's not harming the dead guy any further, as he's already dead.

I'm not sure if Tau believe in souls or spirits or anything of the sort, being something of a psychically-dull race, but they may simply view the body, post-mortem, as an empty shell or lump of meat, not requiring any further attention or regard, apart from removal for the public health.

It depends on your POV. Some cultures have strong feelings or taboos about the dead. And don't forget Space Marines can value their dead highly (for the gene-seed if nothing else.) Thus some in the Imperium who look on Kroot habits as filthy and disgusting, but it's also true that the Imperium has whole hive worlds and forge worlds that subsist on recycled human corpses too. And the AdMech will recycle that stuff for their minions and troops as well, so...

On the other hand they don't start out dead... its only "dead flesh" after battle, and I don't think the Kroot take prisoners (I was remebering that short story in "Fear the Alien" called Unity. They took an IG and Raven Guard alive, and then turned them over to the Kroot because the Kroot wanted their superior genetics.)

From the Tau POV it probably isn't bad. The Kroot aren't snacking on their allies and it keeps the Kroot happy,

Well the kroot have to eat people or they turn into feral animals. The tau don't like it, but it's not as if they can help it. It's a sticky spot.

Nom nom's make better Kroot. Better Kroot means it takes longer for the enemy to get to Tau lines.

Its a win win. Its a win delicious. mmm. Nom nom.

CpatTom wrote:Nom nom's make better Kroot. Better Kroot means it takes longer for the enemy to get to Tau lines.

Its a win win. Its a win delicious. mmm. Nom nom.

But what about the moral implications. At the very least it's offensive to your opponents. Armies like the IoM might not give a damn about there enemy, but the tau do.

The Greater Good comes before the enemies feelings.

Yes, if you are trying to convince a new world how awesome and civilized your culture is, the Water Caste would appreciate it if the Fire caste kept the people eatings to a minimum, but if things devolve to conflict, the Kroot have proven valuable allies to the Tau, and thus their relationship to the Kroot would be more valuable to maintain.

nomotog wrote:
But what about the moral implications. At the very least it's offensive to your opponents. Armies like the IoM might not give a damn about there enemy, but the tau do.

Actually if they're defying the greater good, they don't. That's why they kill the enemy rather than try to stun or incapacitate them. That's why they'll happily bomb planets and sterilize even compliant populaces. They aren't above killing people (Even civilians) if it serves the greater good. They will even sacrifice themselves en masse in the right cirucmstances (EG protecting an Ethereal. They are so driven to protect ethereals they will even abandon their current fight to rush and kill whoever is attacking the Ethereal.)

And as far a the tau are concerned, that is perfectly acceptable. It's in their best interests to protect and preserve their own allies and people before anyone not part of their tribe. Survival isn't always "moral", but in 40K it's a necessity.

Also as far as the Kroot go, I recalled some interesting tidbits from the "Fear the Alien" anthology:

Fear the Alien, page 320&321 wrote:"The kroot seek only unity, and your meat tells the kroot how to be. They give the gift of unity, and they become stronger. They will take your flesh in unity and become better fighters in low gravity. They will see better. They need fresh meat. Their only constant is change.”
...
"Your Emperor and priests fill their giant warriors with machines and organs to make them strong. Their meat is powerful, but the kroot need all kinds. Otherwise they would break down. You’re saving their race. You should be proud. "

The need for "fresh meat" seems to be a biological imperative (MArk of the Xenos implies this) and it seems to have deterimental consequences if they don't keep seeking out new (and different) flesh to consume - I'm not knoweldgable enough about biology to speculate as to why they would "break down" but I imagine that given how volatile/active and rapidly adaptive it is, it may not be very stable by itself.

There are limits though according to Mark of the Xenos. They won't eat Tyranids (no reason given) they won't eat the flesh of anyone touched by chaos (mutation and corruption, I'd guess.) and they are forbidden by the Shapers from eating tau flesh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also while trying to run down what I recalled, I ran across this fun little tidbit regarding some of my earlier comments about the Tau and GReater Good

Deathwatch Core Rulebook, page 352 wrote:
The Tau teach that the perfect society, one modelled after the Tau themselves, has a place for every creature; with every creature in that place, fulfilling their assigned roles without question, for the good of the Sept as a whole. Imperial religion is prohibited and the Tau Water Caste run education (and re-education) programs that instil an understanding and love of the Greater Good into the sometimes reluctant gue’la minds. Populations are regularly sterilised to prevent population growth outstretching Tau methods of control. Human transgressors against the Greater Good are not publicly executed, as is the Imperial way, for the Tau see no need to publicise the fates of those who oppose them. Instead, such gue’la simply disappear, and it is the way of the Greater Good to convince oneself that they never existed at all.
...
One such city, Beldar, is home to the Gue’Retha, a research institute and university to which the Tau transport all the brightest and most talented humans to educate them in Tau philosophy and technology. Attached to the Gue’Retha is a place which the
Tau decline to name, but which human malcontents call the Lacuna. This underground research facility, it is rumoured, is where the Tau conduct psychological experiments on gue’la prisoners. The results supposedly help the Tau refine their
methods of social manipulation, but no one can be sure since any heard to utter such thoughts vanish, quite possibly into the Lacuna itself.

One way or another, they'll make you conform to what they think is best, and they'll bring you to the Greater Good whether you want to or not.

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Now, before the outrage begins, I'm going to point out that what I said are not an effort to portray the Tau as being "lol evil" or "Tau suck" - this is simply how they are, and this is completely consistent with their mindset and beliefs insofar as it pertains to the greater good.

If anyoone trolls you Connor, ignore them. Not one of them seem to understand that the Tau are undergoing the same change in attitude that turned humanity and Eldar into such bastards in the 41st millennium which is the psychotic nature of the 40k galaxy. I liken the Tau to the humanity during the expansion years of before and during the DAoT, of course the Tau are nothing compared to the tech of DAoT humans, who went into space filled with hopes of exploration and peace and finding the galaxy to be somewhat crazy started developing WMD's* in a frenzy which eventually turned into the attitude of the IOM or even Eldar. But to people who complain, the Tau are perfect and can never fall into the same pits of immorality that Eldar and Humanity currently wallow in.

* All those Exterminatus weapons have to come from somewhere.

nomotog wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Nom nom's make better Kroot. Better Kroot means it takes longer for the enemy to get to Tau lines.

Its a win win. Its a win delicious. mmm. Nom nom.

But what about the moral implications. At the very least it's offensive to your opponents. Armies like the IoM might not give a damn about there enemy, but the tau do.

Well the kroot see it as honouring the fallen, so to them their is no moral implication, much like what the Fremen do to extract water.
Others are offended but tolerate it and see the necessity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:Well the kroot have to eat people or they turn into feral animals. The tau don't like it, but it's not as if they can help it. It's a sticky spot.

What turns them into animals is when they eat to much of a specific creature, and take on too many of it's traits for it to be reversible.

CpatTom wrote:The Greater Good comes before the enemies feelings.

Yes, if you are trying to convince a new world how awesome and civilized your culture is, the Water Caste would appreciate it if the Fire caste kept the people eatings to a minimum, but if things devolve to conflict, the Kroot have proven valuable allies to the Tau, and thus their relationship to the Kroot would be more valuable to maintain.

Aren't you the poster who said that the Imperium doesn't build new factories or something like that cause they rely on old templates? Your debate in that thread where you had the Tau just calmly packing their entire civilization onto ships and flying them, something the Imperium can't do, across all of Imperium space without maps and not getting attacked by pirates, Orks and whatever and getting destroyed is just madness.

Connor MacLeod wrote:It depends on your POV. Some cultures have strong feelings or taboos about the dead. And don't forget Space Marines can value their dead highly (for the gene-seed if nothing else.) Thus some in the Imperium who look on Kroot habits as filthy and disgusting, but it's also true that the Imperium has whole hive worlds and forge worlds that subsist on recycled human corpses too. And the AdMech will recycle that stuff for their minions and troops as well, so...

Actually, from what I can tell its not something that is broadcasted to everyone so that they know the they are eating human flesh. Its a secret seeing as Acolytes of the Inquisition are horrified when they find out about such things. I pretty much take this as a thing that some worlds do. As for the Mechanicus, they don't care about the flesh or people anyway. They want to be machines so they recycle the weak flesh to be used again.

im2randomghgh wrote:
But what about the moral implications. At the very least it's offensive to your opponents. Armies like the IoM might not give a damn about there enemy, but the tau do.

Well the kroot see it as honouring the fallen, so to them their is no moral implication, much like what the Fremen do to extract water.
Others are offended but tolerate it and see the necessity.

What turns them into animals is when they eat to much of a specific creature, and take on too many of it's traits for it to be reversible.

This is pretty much Cultural and moral relativism in that what one finds offensive is not offensive to another species.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

CpatTom wrote:The Greater Good comes before the enemies feelings.
Yes, if you are trying to convince a new world how awesome and civilized your culture is, the Water Caste would appreciate it if the Fire caste kept the people eatings to a minimum, but if things devolve to conflict, the Kroot have proven valuable allies to the Tau, and thus their relationship to the Kroot would be more valuable to maintain.

Aren't you the poster who said that the Imperium doesn't build new factories or something like that cause they rely on old templates? Your debate in that thread where you had the Tau just calmly packing their entire civilization onto ships and flying them, something the Imperium can't do, across all of Imperium space without maps and not getting attacked by pirates, Orks and whatever and getting destroyed is just madness.

I had offered that as an alternative to the options the Tau were being given in the thread to stand and fight against an overwhelming Tyranid Hive fleet.

1 I fail to follow your train of thought about why this is relevant.
2 Yes, an Empire sized armada would make a perfect target for pirates and Orcs (Thats sarcasm, an armada that big would not make a good target for piracy)
3 You dont have to know where you are going when you are falling back out of the face of a superior force.
4 The Tau are capable of plenty of things the IoM are not, AI, Railguns, not being corrupted by chaos (The thing that caused the Eldar and Human falls)
5 No mention of anything about STC's or IoM production capabilities

CpatTom wrote:
I had offered that as an alternative to the options the Tau were being given in the thread to stand and fight against an overwhelming Tyranid Hive fleet.

1 I fail to follow your train of thought about why this is relevant.

Nothing, its just your comments in that thread were faceplam worthy to me.

2 Yes, an Empire sized armada would make a perfect target for pirates and Orcs (Thats sarcasm, an armada that big would not make a good target for piracy)

Actually it would, Hit and Run attacks by either the Imperium or Orks who don't care about casualties or the countless other alien menaces hiding in the spaces between the Stars.

3 You dont have to know where you are going when you are falling back out of the face of a superior force.

Yeah. Not knowing where one is going doesn't matter. After all the Tau could ste course for Terra and get wiped out by the Fleet defenses or arrive at their destination to find that its the Eye of Terror but the Tau arr perfect, right? The Eye of Terror would close up by itself due to the presence of the Tau .

4 The Tau are capable of plenty of things the IoM are not, AI, Railguns,

The AI is a stupid reason seeing as the Imperium deliberately doesn't want to build an AI due to the Iron MEN rebellion. I believe that the BattleFleet Gothic rulebooks have ships have weapons batteries which mentions railguns as one of those weapons. Also the Imperium has Ion cannons.

not being corrupted by chaos (The thing that caused the Eldar and Human falls)

Where has it ever been stated that Tau are immune to Chaos?

5 No mention of anything about STC's or IoM production capabilities

What?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

CpatTom wrote:The Greater Good comes before the enemies feelings.

Yes, if you are trying to convince a new world how awesome and civilized your culture is, the Water Caste would appreciate it if the Fire caste kept the people eatings to a minimum, but if things devolve to conflict, the Kroot have proven valuable allies to the Tau, and thus their relationship to the Kroot would be more valuable to maintain.

Aren't you the poster who said that the Imperium doesn't build new factories or something like that cause they rely on old templates? Your debate in that thread where you had the Tau just calmly packing their entire civilization onto ships and flying them, something the Imperium can't do, across all of Imperium space without maps and not getting attacked by pirates, Orks and whatever and getting destroyed is just madness.

Connor MacLeod wrote:It depends on your POV. Some cultures have strong feelings or taboos about the dead. And don't forget Space Marines can value their dead highly (for the gene-seed if nothing else.) Thus some in the Imperium who look on Kroot habits as filthy and disgusting, but it's also true that the Imperium has whole hive worlds and forge worlds that subsist on recycled human corpses too. And the AdMech will recycle that stuff for their minions and troops as well, so...

Actually, from what I can tell its not something that is broadcasted to everyone so that they know the they are eating human flesh. Its a secret seeing as Acolytes of the Inquisition are horrified when they find out about such things. I pretty much take this as a thing that some worlds do. As for the Mechanicus, they don't care about the flesh or people anyway. They want to be machines so they recycle the weak flesh to be used again.

im2randomghgh wrote:
But what about the moral implications. At the very least it's offensive to your opponents. Armies like the IoM might not give a damn about there enemy, but the tau do.

Well the kroot see it as honouring the fallen, so to them their is no moral implication, much like what the Fremen do to extract water.
Others are offended but tolerate it and see the necessity.

What turns them into animals is when they eat to much of a specific creature, and take on too many of it's traits for it to be reversible.

This is pretty much Cultural and moral relativism in that what one finds offensive is not offensive to another species.

As to the mechanicus recycling human flesh, no. That is a heretical act performed by the dark mechanicum, the Imperium sends it's fallen to grave worlds. Or just leaves them lying around, whichever.

Take the reason why Tau are uprooting their civilization out of the equation, and I am sure it seems like a bad idea.

I'm sure they would run into a few pirates. The few that did decide to attack would be destroyed. Most wouldn't, because most like continuing to be pirates instead of dead. (Orks being the exception, but i dont think Ork spacecraft to be particularly suited to hit and run tactics).

I imagine the Tau to continue on the fringes of the IoM's space in that thread, as already stated because that is logical. Who knows though. Maybe they would ignore the IoM's existence and manage to make it to the western side of the galaxy. Look where the Eye of Terror is.

The Tau are probably not corruptible, but they aren't particularly easy o corrupt either, hence the one example I know of was the fire warrior main character in a FPS who soloed a Daemon.

Please provide some sort of reasons for your responses and statements, they help discussion from devovling into mindless drivel.

CpatTom wrote:Take the reason why Tau are uprooting their civilization out of the equation, and I am sure it seems like a bad idea.

I'm sure they would run into a few pirates. The few that did decide to attack would be destroyed. Most wouldn't, because most like continuing to be pirates instead of dead. (Orks being the exception, but i dont think Ork spacecraft to be particularly suited to hit and run tactics).

I imagine the Tau to continue on the fringes of the IoM's space in that thread, as already stated because that is logical. Who knows though. Maybe they would ignore the IoM's existence and manage to make it to the western side of the galaxy. Look where the Eye of Terror is.

The Tau are probably not corruptible, but they aren't particularly easy o corrupt either, hence the one example I know of was the fire warrior main character in a FPS who soloed a Daemon.

Please provide some sort of reasons for your responses and statements, they help discussion from devovling into mindless drivel.

You may want to make your last statement more clear. Lots of FW could solo a daemon. You should mention that it was a GREATER daemon. A nurgling is a daemon too

CpatTom wrote:
The Tau are probably not corruptible, but they aren't particularly easy o corrupt either, hence the one example I know of was the fire warrior main character in a FPS who soloed a Daemon.

This is true, but in the Novel the game is based off of (and the more official source, I would guess) has the Fire Warrior Taking on the Greater Daemon with a squad of Crisis suits( led by his Commander, a Shas'el) and a Good backing of Space Marines that had teamed up to take out said Daemon.

It's also Implied in the book that our lil' Shas'la friend had some....outside help.... from a Certain Blood God we all know and love.

Long story short, Our poor little Shas'la is currently in a coma, clutching a sliver of a Wafer that his father (a Shas'o) gave him when La'Kias (the FIre Warrior's Name) was just a wee Shas'saal.

That part made me cry when I read it

Anyways, The book was a fun read. Really like that I found it so cheap. Literally screamed like a school girl that just saw Justin Bieber IRL when I found Fire Warrior(novel) for 50 cents at the Flea market.

Also, I heard a rumor a while ago that some up and coming BL author has been working on the sequel to Fire Warrior since 2010. I really hope so. Books with Tau Protagonists are almost non-existent.

CpatTom wrote:
I'm sure they would run into a few pirates. The few that did decide to attack would be destroyed. Most wouldn't, because most like continuing to be pirates instead of dead. (Orks being the exception, but i dont think Ork spacecraft to be particularly suited to hit and run tactics).

A lot of pirates in 40k happen to belong to pirate clans which can have dozens or 20 ships. And the Imperium is just going to let the Tau cross Imperium space without stopping them? And the other obscene alien races in 40k like the Slaught and the Rakghoul alone will cause attrition among the Tau

I imagine the Tau to continue on the fringes of the IoM's space in that thread, as already stated because that is logical. Who knows though. Maybe they would ignore the IoM's existence and manage to make it to the western side of the galaxy. Look where the Eye of Terror is.

I welcome the Tau entering the Eye of Terror. The whole race would go extinct from insanity and daemon rape and I'll be happy , but I hope that the Kroot survive, I like the Kroot.

The Tau are probably not corruptible, but they aren't particularly easy o corrupt either, hence the one example I know of was the fire warrior main character in a FPS who soloed a Daemon.

Please provide some sort of reasons for your responses and statements, they help discussion from devovling into mindless drivel.

How about humans working for the Tau? Who corruptible are they?

My entire problem with your argument is that you presume that the Tau wil actually abandon their homeworld while somehow manage to put the entire population of their empire aboard their ships, something the Imperium who have more ships than the Tau and a larger population and industrial base can't achieve.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:If anyoone trolls you Connor, ignore them. Not one of them seem to understand that the Tau are undergoing the same change in attitude that turned humanity and Eldar into such bastards in the 41st millennium which is the psychotic nature of the 40k galaxy. I liken the Tau to the humanity during the expansion years of before and during the DAoT, of course the Tau are nothing compared to the tech of DAoT humans, who went into space filled with hopes of exploration and peace and finding the galaxy to be somewhat crazy started developing WMD's* in a frenzy which eventually turned into the attitude of the IOM or even Eldar. But to people who complain, the Tau are perfect and can never fall into the same pits of immorality that Eldar and Humanity currently wallow in.

* All those Exterminatus weapons have to come from somewhere.

No they're not. They're the same as they have always been.. its just further information clarifies that fact. I've seen the earlier codexes and stuff, and nothing about it really made them any less different then than they are now - there's just more clarifying detail. The tau are not moustache-twirling bad guys just becuase they bomb planets or do the forced sterilization - that's just part of the whole "Greater Good" motif, and they see it as the best solution for achieving Greater Good. Other people (like the Imperium) may view that as evil, but ten again the imperium is hardly better since they have more than their share of religious fanatics, xenophobes, and genocide.

The same is true of Eldar and humanity. "Good and evil" is simply trying to oversimplify it, because its silly to assume everyone is "all good" or "all bad".

Corporal_Reznov wrote:A lot of pirates in 40k happen to belong to pirate clans which can have dozens or 20 ships. And the Imperium is just going to let the Tau cross Imperium space without stopping them? And the other obscene alien races in 40k like the Slaught and the Rakghoul alone will cause attrition among the Tau

Pirates are strong enough to wipe out an Empire sized Armada? How does anything get done in the IoM if pirates are so powerful?

I welcome the Tau entering the Eye of Terror. The whole race would go extinct from insanity and daemon rape and I'll be happy , but I hope that the Kroot survive, I like the Kroot.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13269685/images/1293177690608.jpg You need to look at this, because you at least either dont know where the Tau Empire or the Eye of terror is.

How about humans working for the Tau? Who corruptible are they?

Corruptible enough, although in an emergency evactuation where the entire Empire is being uprooted, I dont know how many humans would warrant getting a ride (I'm guessing not enough to matter).

My entire problem with your argument is that you presume that the Tau wil actually abandon their homeworld while somehow manage to put the entire population of their empire aboard their ships, something the Imperium who have more ships than the Tau and a larger population and industrial base can't achieve.

My entire problem with your argument is it doesnt follow logical sense.
1. They aren't doing this because its fun, they are doing it because they are being attacked by a hivefleet they have no hope of stopping. Stop ignoring this fact, and maybe the argument makes more sense.
2. The Tau wouldnt take their entire population, just as many as possible.
3. Being a smaller Empire both geographically and population wise (not to mention having a working and efficient governmental structure), it would be easier to board the Empire onto ships, not harder as you seem to think.

4. Is the IoM industrial base actually greater per capita, or are you just making this up?

CpatTom wrote:
Pirates are strong enough to wipe out an Empire sized Armada? How does anything get done in the IoM if pirates are so powerful?

Ever heard of attrition?

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13269685/images/1293177690608.jpg You need to look at this, because you at least either dont know where the Tau Empire or the Eye of terror is.

I know where the Eye of Terror is located. I was making a jest based on your statement that the tau would enter Imperium space without any directions on where to go and because of this they arrive at the EOT.

Corruptible enough, although in an emergency evactuation where the entire Empire is being uprooted, I dont know how many humans would warrant getting a ride (I'm guessing not enough to matter).

Completely corruptible.

My entire problem with your argument is it doesnt follow logical sense.
1. They aren't doing this because its fun, they are doing it because they are being attacked by a hivefleet they have no hope of stopping. Stop ignoring this fact, and maybe the argument makes more sense.

And they would actually consider this idea? Would they have the time to implement it? Would the Tau not fracture due to this event and no longer remain united? Would they actually survive the journey without getting destroyed by whatever nasty thing exist in space in 40k.

2. The Tau wouldnt take their entire population, just as many as possible.

3. Being a smaller Empire both geographically and population wise (not to mention having a working and efficient governmental structure), it would be easier to board the Empire onto ships, not harder as you seem to think.

Fine.

4. Is the IoM industrial base actually greater per capita, or are you just making this up?

I thought the existence of a million worlds and the unofficial worlds part of the Imperium would be enough evidence of this.

Corporal_Reznov wrote: Ever heard of attrition?

Yes, it takes a long time and someone unwilling to adapt to a threat. These are qualities the Tau do not have.

I know where the Eye of Terror is located. I was making a jest based on your statement that the tau would enter Imperium space without any directions on where to go and because of this they arrive at the EOT.

Apologies, I did not realize it to be a joke, well because its something I could see someone saying on Dakka earnestly. Its a good one though.

Completely corruptible.

All six that get space on a ship.

And they would actually consider this idea? Would they have the time to implement it? Would the Tau not fracture due to this event and no longer remain united? Would they actually survive the journey without getting destroyed by whatever nasty thing exist in space in 40k.

In the scenario presented, they are being confronted by a hivefleet, and the ability to defeat this fleet was determined to be impossible. Presented with this scenario, instead of continuing to argue, "no the Tau would win", I decided to consider what the Tau would do, if they were faced with a Hivefleet they knew they could not defeat.
The Tau have fractured a grand total of once. As long as they have an Etheral they are good.
Again, I find it unlikely an Empire sized armada of ships would simply be destroyed by a few pirates, but it certainly is possible that it might occur.
(Its also possible that a GK might fall to chaos...)

I thought the existence of a million worlds and the unofficial worlds part of the Imperium would be enough evidence of this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita
I think the Tau would have a greater per capita technological base, actually. Considering how well standard line soldiers are equipped, tech available to everyone etc, but I have no evidence for this.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

CpatTom wrote:
Pirates are strong enough to wipe out an Empire sized Armada? How does anything get done in the IoM if pirates are so powerful?

Ever heard of attrition?

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13269685/images/1293177690608.jpg You need to look at this, because you at least either dont know where the Tau Empire or the Eye of terror is.

I know where the Eye of Terror is located. I was making a jest based on your statement that the tau would enter Imperium space without any directions on where to go and because of this they arrive at the EOT.

Corruptible enough, although in an emergency evactuation where the entire Empire is being uprooted, I dont know how many humans would warrant getting a ride (I'm guessing not enough to matter).

Completely corruptible.

My entire problem with your argument is it doesnt follow logical sense.
1. They aren't doing this because its fun, they are doing it because they are being attacked by a hivefleet they have no hope of stopping. Stop ignoring this fact, and maybe the argument makes more sense.

And they would actually consider this idea? Would they have the time to implement it? Would the Tau not fracture due to this event and no longer remain united? Would they actually survive the journey without getting destroyed by whatever nasty thing exist in space in 40k.

2. The Tau wouldnt take their entire population, just as many as possible.

3. Being a smaller Empire both geographically and population wise (not to mention having a working and efficient governmental structure), it would be easier to board the Empire onto ships, not harder as you seem to think.

Fine.

4. Is the IoM industrial base actually greater per capita, or are you just making this up?

I thought the existence of a million worlds and the unofficial worlds part of the Imperium would be enough evidence of this.

I'm just gonna reply to your first and last post.

1. Attrition generally doesn't work considering the tau have their entire art of war centered around mobility and support, whereas the IoM uses slow, unstoppable force. The only armies with more mobility are Eldar and Necrons.

As for the last one, that absolutely does not answer it. Do you know what per capita means? That means how much is being produced relative to the population. The tau almost cerainly exceed the IoM there, especially considering unemployment is a thing in the IoM but not in the Empire.

Tau absolutely have more per capita. The IoM whould lose out to the anyone on that stat. That's one crazy thing about the Iom. They have almost zero labor er saving devices.

nomotog wrote:Tau absolutely have more per capita. The IoM whould lose out to the anyone on that stat. That's one crazy thing about the Iom. They have almost zero labor er saving devices.

They almost intentionally avoid it. They'd rather use slaves with pick axes than drilling machines, except on forge worlds.

bombboy1252 wrote: Snip

BRAVO GOOD SIR! It takes commitment to keep trolling this long. You have will power hereto unseen and you should be proud.

im2randomghgh wrote:

nomotog wrote:Tau absolutely have more per capita. The IoM whould lose out to the anyone on that stat. That's one crazy thing about the Iom. They have almost zero labor er saving devices.

They almost intentionally avoid it. They'd rather use slaves with pick axes than drilling machines, except on forge worlds.

Yep. In the IoM, lives are cheap. Tech is often old, expensive and unrepairable. This is the army that makes bridges out of there infantrymen.

nomotog wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

nomotog wrote:Tau absolutely have more per capita. The IoM whould lose out to the anyone on that stat. That's one crazy thing about the Iom. They have almost zero labor er saving devices.

They almost intentionally avoid it. They'd rather use slaves with pick axes than drilling machines, except on forge worlds.

Yep. In the IoM, lives are cheap. Tech is often old, expensive and unrepairable. This is the army that makes bridges out of there infantrymen.

Literally.

I remember a par in GG where they made a hill out of bodies because they couldn't wait 5 MINUTES for their LRBT support to blow it apart.

CpatTom wrote:
Yes, it takes a long time and someone unwilling to adapt to a threat. These are qualities the Tau do not have.

So the Tau will adapt to Rakghoul raiders, warp storms, temporal dislocations, raids by Imperial fleets in just a snap of a finger?

Apologies, I did not realize it to be a joke, well because its something I could see someone saying on Dakka earnestly. Its a good one though.

Thanks. Just have fun, don't be so serious .

All six that get space on a ship.

What?

In the scenario presented, they are being confronted by a hivefleet, and the ability to defeat this fleet was determined to be impossible. Presented with this scenario, instead of continuing to argue, "no the Tau would win", I decided to consider what the Tau would do, if they were faced with a Hivefleet they knew they could not defeat.
The Tau have fractured a grand total of once. As long as they have an Etheral they are good.
Again, I find it unlikely an Empire sized armada of ships would simply be destroyed by a few pirates, but it certainly is possible that it might occur.
(Its also possible that a GK might fall to chaos...)

The Tau fleet separates a few ships from itself to scout ahead of the main fleet and these get destroyed and the Tau fleet continue forward to get ambushed a an Ork raid etc.

im2randomghgh wrote:
I'm just gonna reply to your first and last post.

1. Attrition generally doesn't work considering the tau have their entire art of war centered around mobility and support, whereas the IoM uses slow, unstoppable force. The only armies with more mobility are Eldar and Necrons.

We are talking about spaceships not the ground army.

As for the last one, that absolutely does not answer it. Do you know what per capita means? That means how much is being produced relative to the population. The tau almost cerainly exceed the IoM there, especially considering unemployment is a thing in the IoM but not in the Empire.

You're right here, although thats because of the sheer size of the Imperium's population which makes the Tau insignificant. Also, can you post a quote where its said that the Tau have no unemployment.

nomotog wrote:Tau absolutely have more per capita. The IoM whould lose out to the anyone on that stat. That's one crazy thing about the Iom. They have almost zero labor er saving devices.

They actually do, they just don't use it everywhere due to sheer size of the Imperium.

im2randomghgh wrote:
They almost intentionally avoid it. They'd rather use slaves with pick axes than drilling machines, except on forge worlds.

Hive worlds use machines, Agri-worlds use machines. Its the feral worlds that don't do that.

nomotog wrote:
Yep. In the IoM, lives are cheap. Tech is often old, expensive and unrepairable. This is the army that makes bridges out of there infantrymen.

Not everyone does this.