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omerakk wrote:
Get them to change the rules and allow you to take your vehicles at the least. If they won't, hand them your codex and tell them to to build an army and fight that player. Maybe after they get massacred a few times they will change the restrictions.

Hmm.. so it's not only me having trouble putting together a competitive and universal rooster to be used with those tournament rules?

Reason I haven't joined the league yet is that I didn't wanted to join with poor list of "add all you have" and partially unpainted army.
I'm looking forward to joining in february, at the start of new season. Hopefully by that time the rules will change. I'm looking towards four Necron players who play that tournament as we speak. Will see how they do, and if they all share my point of view than we all can demand something being done about the rules...

@Ivan: I think you either missed the point here or didn't bother reading the whole thread.

Have you thought about C'tan Shards with the power that makes terrain dangerous. That way, he will need to be cautious about going into cover, and will find it incredibly difficult to move.

At larger point scale - I will defo go for Shard (I even finished painting it today!) with that ability.
Lots of hope there. Especially with Tremorstave. ( Yes I know that usage is being debated, there is another thread for that )

Still at small point games we have now it's way too costly.

Shame there is no Lithes alklowed. Sure he'll get a LR to match, but that is easy to deal with. Then nothing can touch you. If he Brings any Russ other than Vanq, DEmo or Battle Tank thn he can't touch it, and the LRBT can only glance.

Alas..'tis not the case...

What about running a cryptek with veil so you can deep strike near him and shoot that squad before he has the chance to weaken resolve.

You could also take Vargard Obryn as your HQ and he could deep strike your unit but then you couldn't take a royal court.

Already brought the veil up last page and it was agreed that it was a viable idea

Deadshot wrote:Shame there is no Lithes alklowed.

Indeed. Once we are ready to play 1500 points, I'll be definitely fielding my Monolith Back to tournament, no chance for those :( At least SM can't use their Drop Pods either :]

MiscDebris wrote:What about running a cryptek with veil so you can deep strike near him and shoot that squad before he has the chance to weaken resolve.

Yap. As mentioned before - this seems to be a good idea with given rules and circumstances. Will definitely give it a shot next game (if he fields that damn PBS again).

EDIT: Fox beat me to that reply

I second(or third?) th enotion for VoD tesla immortals, 10 of em will survive his autocannons and maybe phareon or ressurection orb can help crush the witches

seems to me like a poor handicap. having your vehicles restricted is BS, especially given the 0-1 hev support slot. seriously, get them to update the rules to make it more even. i suggest keeping the slots and points limits the same, but remove that armor facing restriction. (wanna blow 1/3rd of army on landraider?? ok fine! but good luck winning with 400pts to spend on a 150+hq and then troops.)

that said a possible way to counter PSB:
- deepstrike monolith beside them. use portal to bring warriors in. proceed to flay the ever loving holy bejesus out of them. DONE. next turn, port in something else and continue shooting up his lines.

Tomb spyders with the ignore-psy-powers on a 4+.

Crypteks with solar pulse.

Here is your solution:

1x Harbinger of Despair w/ VoD
5x Deathmarks

When you deploy the Deathmarks, declare his psyker unit to be the Deathmarks' prey. Deep Strike into play from reserve, or via VoD the unit within range of the Harbinger's template. Now, you get a flame template attack at AP 1 that wounds on a 2+, and you get 10 shots from the Deathmarks that hit and wound on a 2+. The template alone will decimate the squad, with no armour saves.

Your opponent's problematic unit is now gone. Oh, and this unit only costs 155 points.

EDIT: spelling!

azazel the cat wrote:Here is your solution:

1x Harbinger of Despair w/ VoD
5x Deathmarks

When you deploy the Deathmarks, declare his psyker unit to be the Deathmarks' prey. Deep Strike into play from reserve, or via VoD the unit within range of the Harbinger's template. Now, you get a flame template attack at AP 1 that wounds on a 2+, and you get 10 shots from the Deathmarks that hit and wound on a 2+. The template alone will decimate the squad, with no armour saves.

Your opponent's problematic unit is now gone. Oh, and this unit only costs 155 points.

EDIT: spelling!

This was also my idea, I think Deathmarks+VoD cryptek may be one of the best infantry/elite infantry killers out there right now. Anyhow, it WILL solve your problem, the only way it may fail is by scattering REALLY too much (since you only need to be less than than 12inches away to decimate his squad with rapid fire theres is little chance of scattering being a problem).

Ivan wrote:Okay, so...

Guard frustrates you when they run Psykers and eliminate your Ld10 on one unit per.

Very frustrating game. How terrible for you.

Except when fighting Necrons, half the damn game is night fighting. How frustraing for the Guard player. How terrible for him.

Bleh.

Arent Necrons, in the fluff, supposed to be really vulnerable to psykers?

Hmm.

You ignore the original problem for the OP, IT IS LOW POINTS, he cannot have Imotekh, he only gets one solar pulse, the table is larger than normal, and the guard have WAY more competitive options (and cheese) at low points..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other words, its always night fighting is invalid..

Ok, I came up with a roster that should be ok to play at that tournament and let me deal with his IG Psykers at the same time.
To be honest, I was afraid I will run into some other IG Player that uses PBS aswell at that tournament.

So here it goes:

total: 600pts

HQ: 190

Necron Overlord (90)
- Gauntlet of Fire (5)

Cryptek, Harbinger of Destruction (35)

Cryptek, Harbinger of Despair (30)
- Veil of Darkness (30)

Troops: 270

9x Warriors (117)

9x Immortals (153)

Fast Attack: 140

2x Destroyer (80)
1x Heavy Destroyer (60)

Explanation:

I'll have Warriors with Destro Cryptec as one unit and VoD Cryptek will go with Lord and Immortals.
VoD unit is going to DS for quick annihilation attack, or if used against said IG - to kill Psyker Squad.
Destroyers and Warriors with Destro Cryptec will hold ground 36" from enemy, kill vehicles etc... waiting for enemy to come in 24" range.
Will put that list to tests soon. See how it works against other armies.


I wanted to have universal roster for that tournament (as you can use only one rooster whole season), that can handle such perilous units as said Psyker Battle Squad.
If I were doing rooster solely to beat my friend's IG I would use Spyder with Gloom and some other changes instead of destroyers. More Immortals too.

What do you think?


EDIT: Got rid of the roosters :]

Cockadoodle doo!

(It's roster, not rooster).

Sorry I can't comment on the list - just couldn't resist the rooster/roster thing. =x

Yeah, my bad. Fixed :]

Herr Dexter wrote:Ok, I came up with a roster that should be ok to play at that tournament and let me deal with his IG Psykers at the same time.
To be honest, I was afraid I will run into some other IG Player that uses PBS aswell at that tournament.

So here it goes:

total: 600pts

HQ: 190

Necron Overlord (90)
- Gauntlet of Fire (5)

Cryptek, Harbinger of Destruction (35)

Cryptek, Harbinger of Despair (30)
- Veil of Darkness (30)





Since youre not giving him a solar pulse I'd get rid of the destruction cryptek and fatten up my overlord, one lone boy would rape your army. Or get another heavy destroyer. 600 points is tough

Troops: 270

9x Warriors (117)

9x Immortals (153)

Fast Attack: 140

2x Destroyer (80)
1x Heavy Destroyer (60)

Explanation:

I'll have Warriors with Destro Cryptec as one unit and VoD Cryptek will go with Lord and Immortals.
VoD unit is going to DS for quick annihilation attack, or if used against said IG - to kill Psyker Squad.
Destroyers and Warriors with Destro Cryptec will hold ground 36" from enemy, kill vehicles etc... waiting for enemy to come in 24" range.
Will put that list to tests soon. See how it works against other armies.


I wanted to have universal roster for that tournament (as you can use only one rooster whole season), that can handle such perilous units as said Psyker Battle Squad.
If I were doing rooster solely to beat my friend's IG I would use Spyder with Gloom and some other changes instead of destroyers. More Immortals too.

What do you think?


EDIT: Got rid of the roosters :]

I'd throw away the destruction cryptek since he doesnt have solar pulse and either get another heavy destroyer or fatten up my overlord (warscythe would be nice, one lone boy would rape your army right now)

Herr Dexter wrote:
Not many things I can pick with mentioned setup, and rule that allows you to only use vehicles with max 34 armor (front+side+back) gives Necron Vehicles large disadvantage. The shop rules state Necrons can use all of their vehicles but they are counted as NOT HAVING Quantum Shielding as it would abuse mentioned rule (since front and side would count as 13). Therefore I have costly skimmers with 11 armor - not good.

I can only say "don't play this format" if this is the case. Unless they're going to give you a steep discount on your vehicles, it puts you at a significant disadvantage with no counter-balance (quantum shields are a significant portion of necron vehicle costs).

Paint more models and play games at 1500.

Here's what I would do:

1x Anrakyr the Traveller
1x Harbinger of Eternity
+ Chronometron

1x Harbinger of Destruction
5x Immortals (Pyrrhian Eternals upgrade)

1x Harbinger of Destruction
5x Immortals

1x Harbinger of Despair
+ Veil of Darkness
5x Deathmarks

Total points = 600

Real easy gameplan: whatever is your must-kill target, that's what you send the Deathmarks after. With the combination of Hunters from Hyperspace and the Abyssal Staff, any unit you designate will be wiped out immediately. The troops will add a little anti-tank via the Harbingers, and Anrakyr will also make any tanks a liability for your opponent via Mind in the Machine and Tachyon Arrow. Adding the Harbinger of Eternity will make sure you don't miss. And the free upgrade to Pyrrhian Eternals is just gravy.

Try this list, but I personally don't think you should play this format with that idiotic house rule about quantum shielding.

How would wraiths + destroyer lord do?
Fearless would make the -8 LD moot.

-Matt

azazel the cat wrote:Here's what I would do:

1x Anrakyr the Traveller
1x Harbinger of Eternity
+ Chronometron

1x Harbinger of Destruction
5x Immortals (Pyrrhian Eternals upgrade)

1x Harbinger of Destruction
5x Immortals

1x Harbinger of Despair
+ Veil of Darkness
5x Deathmarks

Total points = 600

Real easy gameplan: whatever is your must-kill target, that's what you send the Deathmarks after. With the combination of Hunters from Hyperspace and the Abyssal Staff, any unit you designate will be wiped out immediately. The troops will add a little anti-tank via the Harbingers, and Anrakyr will also make any tanks a liability for your opponent via Mind in the Machine and Tachyon Arrow. Adding the Harbinger of Eternity will make sure you don't miss. And the free upgrade to Pyrrhian Eternals is just gravy.

Try this list, but I personally don't think you should play this format with that idiotic house rule about quantum shielding.

He cant try that list though because it has an SC in it...which I believe he said were banned by these house rules. Your final thought is spot on though....

Psyker Battle Squad? I think fearless is your friend here. See if you can put it to good use?

So you can't use ICs or transports? Why in the Imperium would you want to join this awful league with Necrons? They've designed it to make you a whipping boy.

azazel the cat wrote:Real easy gameplan: whatever is your must-kill target, that's what you send the Deathmarks after. With the combination of Hunters from Hyperspace and the Abyssal Staff, any unit you designate will be wiped out immediately. The troops will add a little anti-tank via the Harbingers, and Anrakyr will also make any tanks a liability for your opponent via Mind in the Machine and Tachyon Arrow. Adding the Harbinger of Eternity will make sure you don't miss. And the free upgrade to Pyrrhian Eternals is just gravy.

I really like this idea, but as Zoola noticed - SC are not allowed in this tournament / league. Same reason someone else's Stormlord idea was also scrapped.
Nevertheless, Anrakyr is prolly my fav SC in this Codex and I will give him a chance in normal, large point game I also like the idea of adding Chronometron to maximise chances on Tachyon Arrow. Good one!

HawaiiMatt wrote:How would wraiths + destroyer lord do?
Fearless would make the -8 LD moot.

Been thinking about that. Wraith Squad and Destro Lords look awesome on the paper and can't wait to try them out. Sadly I don't have any old metal Wraths and have to wait for Newcrons 2nd wave. As soon as they are out - my first purchase If they turn out to be 3 Model Box Spyder/Wraith Multikit - buing 3 at once -> 6 Wraiths and 3 Spyders


Back to main topic. I got some news from my Tau friend who plays that Tournament / League in this season. He got decimated by Necron 20:0

The reason was, Necron used following roster:

Necrons Army #1
HQ 1: Necron Overlord; Warscythe, Phylactery, Mindshackle scarabs, Resurrection orb; 165
Transport 1
Troops 1: 5 Immortals 85
Fast 1: 4 Destroyers; 1 Heavy 180
Heavy 1: Annihilation Barges 90
Transport 1: Catacomb Command Barge 80
Models in Army: 12
KP: 5
Total Army Cost: 600"

I was told he was using Quantum Shielding just fine and Tau had no chance of opening those vehicles up
When I'm not convinced about spending so many points on Phylactery and Orb + having only one, small scoring unit... The fact he could use QS seems uplifting. Unless he cheated on my friend and "no QS" rule is valid. Need to talk to judges asap and ask them wtf is with those rules.

To all who wonder why I bother playing that tournament / league - It's the only such thing close to my home, I can attend with no effort even on workdays. As a unexpirienced player I was looking forward to learning from duels against other players (of different armies) rather than from playing same IG army over and over As soon as my other friends fully change from WHFB to W40K I'll have like 6 buddies playing here. Nice gaming environment. I just need to wait and to be patient

Youve got the right attitude at least!

Heres hoping your friends switch over to 40k sooner rather than later!

Complaining about the tournament rules is fun but unproductive - it is up to the store to change them. Let's see what we can do WITHIN the rules.

Quantum shielding is not armor. Those vehicles are AV11, so 11+11+11=33<34. Okay. So, arks should be fine. If they give you trouble, show them the codex and the stat line.

Setup: 600 pts, 0-1 HQ, 1-3 troop, 0-1 elite, 0-1 fast, 0-1 heavy.
Problem: Morale issue until the psykers die or get tied in CC.
Solution: max fearless and speed

troop: 9 immortals with tesla = 153
elite: 5 pretorians with blades and pistols = 200 (fearless, jump infantry)
fast: 6 wraiths with pistols = 240 (fearless, jump infantry)
total = 593

Put the immos out of LOS - there should be at least one terrain feature that allows you to do it. Otherwise the map is not set up right. Put the wraiths and pretorians out of LOS if possible as well.

On the first turn, jump from cover to cover. On the second turn, shoot and assault. His line will crumble.

If you get fed up with this guy, cheese him out:
HQ: Imotekh = 225
troop: 9 immortals with tesla = 153
fast: 6 wraiths with 2 pistols = 220
total = 599

It turns out Imotekh does not have to be on the board for his lightning to work. So, reserve him. Deploy the rest as before. Night time rules apply and he gets blasted by the lightnings.

Addendum: His IG list is not that horrid. I can think of far, far worse things under this setup. If I really wanted to be ridiculous, I'd take three hydras in that one heavy support slot for just 225 pts. That is 12 TL S7 AP4 48" shots ignoring cover from movement plus 9 S5 AP4 36" heavy bolter shots. This squad will vaporize in one turn pretty much anything they put their sights on. So, don't complain too much.

Here is one of the possible lists from hell:
troop: vets grenade launchers or plasma in chimera ~ 160 pts
fast: 3x armored sentinels with plasma cannons 210
heavy: 3x hydra 225

Now that is a very unfriendly list in this setup.

I'd be inclined to agree with necrontyr40k's first list... except for the pretorians... I've had nothing but bad luck with them so far... I'd replace them with sword/board lychguard by dropping 4 of the particle casters to make up the missing 18 pts.

This is of course just my personal preference, but I find lychguard a little more durable. That said however, the pretorians with voidblades probably makes for a better TAC list since rending and entropic makes for excellent tank hunters. I've just had horrible luck GETTING them to that point in practice games...

WanderingFox wrote:I'd be inclined to agree with necrontyr40k's first list... except for the pretorians... I've had nothing but bad luck with them so far... I'd replace them with sword/board lychguard by dropping 4 of the particle casters to make up the missing 18 pts.

This is of course just my personal preference, but I find lychguard a little more durable. That said however, the pretorians with voidblades probably makes for a better TAC list since rending and entropic makes for excellent tank hunters. I've just had horrible luck GETTING them to that point in practice games...

Remember the tournament rule restrictions we are dealing with here (see OP) - IG cannot take Leman Russ tanks under them. So, no AP3 large pie plates, unless he pays for colossi or basilisks, which have large minimal ranges and scatter a lot. This means 3+ saves are far more untouchable than normal. In the end, if you roll a 1-2, it does not matter if the save you failed was armor or invulnerable. The argument only breaks if there is a ton of plasma guns AND the necrons hang out in open sight (which jump packs should never do)

Also, speed here is very important, so jump packs is the way to go. Otherwise, you will spend extra turns slogging it to the gun line, which is what IG wants. Also, with jump packs, you can assault from outside the 12 inch range of rapid fire double-tap and also from behind solid cover.

Well, 2 important differences between Pretorians and Lychguards that matter here:

- Lychguard are not Fearless
- Pretorians are Jump Infantry

Whereas I would love to get Lychguard into assault range - no chance, without proper transport (which would make them cost 300 total, that's half point limit) they would just stagger through the battlefield prolly getting Weaken Resolve'd and wiped.

And with some lucky terrain, I could get Pretorians in range with few jumps. Also they are Fearless so PBS can suck it.

Necrontyr40k wrote:If I really wanted to be ridiculous, I'd take three hydras in that one heavy support slot for just 225 pts. That is 12 TL S7 AP4 48" shots ignoring cover from movement plus 9 S5 AP4 36" heavy bolter shots. This squad will vaporize in one turn pretty much anything they put their sights on. So, don't complain too much.

Actually, the heavy bolter shots ignore movement-based cover, too. The ability is general, and doesn't apply just to the autocannons.