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2 Rounds of night fight is brutal! Good to see that even those often underestimated warrior squads + crypteks can handle individual threats on their own. How did the annihilation barge fare?

you are lucky you play a mostly-fearless army JY2...your ability to roll 5's and 6's for destroyed resaults is unparalleled and i fear would have your army running for the hills were you not mostly fearless.

i don't think that you roll that much over average but it really shows when you shoot 3-4 crypteks at a boosted skimmer and blow it up, fully glance/wreck a razor in one salvo from a barge, and eat 12+ krak missles and lose a model or two.

great strategy however. you knew what was going to happen and when it would happen. i think that is the problem with 5th edition compared to the leaked edition. everything in 5th is focused on Turn 5. All strategies are focused for turn 5 and likewise, all plans tend to go south for those that took a beating up and until turn 5. the leaked 6th dex will make every turn count for something.

nice match and list.

Ah Jy2, you and your damn saves! hahaha

He just wasn't dying, the dice took a big dump on me and all that firepower just bounced off of him, turn after turn. I was getting really frustrated as it seems like every time we play the dice just hate me!

I should have been wasting those Wraiths and Command Barges but nothing would do any damage. I shot at a Command barge with literally 20 missiles and did NOTHING to it, it was just one of those games.

But, it is a dice game and that is the way it goes. I find that when two good players with good lists play one another, it often comes down to who makes a mistake or who has better luck. Neither of us made a major mistake and Jim's dice were hotter than mine.

Well played Jy2, as always a very challenging and enjoyable game.


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@Zaephyr
The night fight did pretty much nothing against me, all my units that could fire, did fire every turn. You can play around it if you have the tools and the right plan.

It was his units not failing saves that killed me! Haha,

happygolucky wrote:Good Batrep...Nothing makes me smile more than seeing wolves get cut back down to puppies

shame you can never do it yourself.

I've been waiting a while to see this match up; there really isn't a competitive SW player in my arena so I've never gotten to take my wraith wing up against a solid SW list. From the looks of it though, had Jy2 only been using 12 wraiths instead of the full 18, he wouldn't have been able to weather this one so well.

Despite the Necron win, it makes me somewhat apprehensive about my less than complete commitment to wraiths.

I've had great results from 12 wraiths and 10 scarabs in my FA slot against BA, IG, Orks, VSM, and GK; but I'm also relying on 2 night scythes and 2 A barges for suppression fire.

The Crypteks definitely seemed clutch, I usually just run 3, but this batrep is making me seriously reconsider that as well.

A great game all around, and the terrain looks beautiful as always.

Good battle report jy2. Your dice are as hot as ever. Despite having Wraiths picked off left and right, they manage to get across the board and wreak havoc. Wow, Bjorn is a beast! He held up those Wraiths for so long.

While I was not a fan of the necron deployment, thats mainly because without seeing the center piece of terrain its hard to know what, if anything, should have been shielded behind it. Assuming the center blocked LOS, it seemed that jy2 was just giving Reecius the ability to shoot with everything, instead of only half the army.

Reecius was on the back board edge. Assuming the Wraiths started exactly 12 inches up, that is 35 inches of distance if directly across. By offseting the wraiths on the rt flank, 33 inches of length, the middle long fangs would be out of range. Then, the second/third unit of wraiths could use the giant hill as cover from the middle long fangs--assuming it provided cover.

As for Reecius, I said before that his list has a lack of close combat--which for wolves seems out of place, considering it costs only a little to upgrade 2 or so greyhunters into something fearsome. The objectives were split 2 and 2, but Reecius, besides sending 3 av10 speeders into a gauntlet of necrons, had no play for either of the cron objectives. The Wraiths forced/intimidated him so far back, with solar pulses pushing some of the razors so far forward, that jy2 just seemed to eat his way across the board.

Also, I was really shocked that Bjorn was forward. I thought that by keeping him back some for the 3rd objective on Reecius' side if he died, that would change the drawn 2v2 objectives to the Wolves favor.

Finally, it seemed that Reecius fired everything into the catacomb command barges on turn 2. I would have put money that the 20ish missiles would continue to target wraiths--another 3 dead wraiths might have been all you needed to swing those combats. Meanwhile, it takes about 10 missiles just to get your first pen on a barge, more like 20 if they had a cover save--which it seemed they did. Seems like a bad investment on turn 2, with Wraiths incoming.

Bjorn is a beast, he is so underrated. He will trapit units all game, and does so regularly.

I knew the odds of him dying in combat (which is where Iknew he would be either by Jy2 assaulting him, or Bjorn assaulting the central Wraiths) were low, and that he would keep that unit out of the game.

That is why I deployed on two flanks.

And I did make a play for Jy2's objectives, two squads of Grey Hunters plus the Rune priest in Razorbacks, they just all got stopped in their tracks early.

The Wraiths aren't what won the game, it was the Crypteks. Those Eldritch lances stopped my mobility, the Wraiths honestly didn't do that much.

I should have been destroying 1 squad of Wraiths a turn, but Jy2's dice were red hot, he was taking 50% less casualties per phase than he probability says he should have. There's just not much you can do to that.

But it is what it is. A good list, a good general and a little luck, and not a whole lot I could do. My gameplan was sound, and it worked, it was just the lack of punch I was able to deliver that cost me.

As for close combat, my list doesn't need it. The Dreadnoughts are the counter assault. My army is a hard core, alhpa strike shooting list. Pumping up the Grey Hunter units makes my list weaker at what it does: (shoot your pants off).

I have max points spent on firepower and against 99% of the lists out there, I out shoot them and only need enough assault to stay out of trouble.

Appreciate going for a more "balanced" approach but honestly, still needs tweaking IMO (More 1st turn threats, all troops with dual lance (so, 5?), 2 CCBs, and 2 Annihilation Barges makes 7-9 threats rather than the MTO's 2-4 (Doom Scythes + CCBs) is a good step forward, I count the CCB as iffy because, sometimes they hit exactly what they did here in what the opponent wanted you to hit, empty transports, oh joy! lol Or were you going for more flavor this time (with trying to theme around Wraithwring) Are you looking to tweak it from here some more or stick with this over the other list? Either way, I think you could use some more target saturation as noted, the Wraiths aren't a hard threat to take out, you just got pretty damn lucky. That can happen to anyone. If you took a Scarab list it'd fare better here with that kind of luck.


I don't really understand why spreading out a wide front was the ideal thing to do here for SW. . Sure, spread out when he starts to get in charge range, but no need to right away. I mean, when I wanna defend vs. a CC threat I usually can let the CC threat hit stuff like empty Razors no problem. Coulda helped here too with the GH in pockets of Razors/Land Speeders too. (That defends vs CCB Sweep attacks if they are *just* within sweep range normally, because they can't land on units. Maybe just aiming to use range more, though you spreading out as well just made it easier to prioritize his firepower. I think if you (Necrons) more pushed mid and then chose a flank from there to push would have been good because if you DIDN'T have good luck with the Wraiths, at least they'd hit quite a few things rather than hit 1/2 units then die as they try to cross the table un-hindered (Not using Mech/Speeders to block charging lanes is another tactic sorely missed in this report. Dual Lance from a good amount of units is good support for the Wraiths though, better than Wraiths stuck charging the walls, now you can shoot a blocking vehicle/unit and make a gap rather than watch the enemy deploy a sacrifice fence )

Report could be a *smidge* more detailed, especially wondering how the first CCB got "over" the Razorback when its in the corner and it landed still in front of the Razorback? I am confused...

Would like your own analysis on how units are performing in your mind too, if you wanna judge how good the list is off luck/facing self then continue to do so though.

Can you spotlight while smoked/cruising? I thought you had to be able to target a unit to searchlight - as in make a shooting attack?

RatWolf wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Good Batrep...Nothing makes me smile more than seeing wolves get cut back down to puppies

shame you can never do it yourself.

But I have...twice

So one thing I noticed, I'm pretty sure cannot use a searchlight if you cannot fire a weapon. So cruising rhinos or smoking rhinos do not get to searchlight anything. The act of attempting to see something with night fight happens when you shoot at them, if you cant shoot, no seeing, no search lighting. Maybe you guys were already playing it this way, it was hard to tell from the report.

Any way you slice it, wraiths are hard targets. A 3+ invulnerable save and 2 wounds, with 3 wound groups means that actually cutting down wraith squads isn't that easy. Yeah, long fangs should be dropping 1-2 per squad per phase, but even three remaining wraiths assaulting a target means a drawn out fist fight.

The thing with three wraith squads is you're either going to focus fire on 1 squad and let 2 reach your line, or you're going to try to soften them all before they reach you and try to slug it out with them, and even a few units failing night fighting is going suck because wraiths can ignore 66% of wounds no matter what the source.

Great report! I'm looking forward to building Necrons next, and these reports have been a continual source of entertainment and enlightenment.

Spacecurves wrote:So one thing I noticed, I'm pretty sure cannot use a searchlight if you cannot fire a weapon. So cruising rhinos or smoking rhinos do not get to searchlight anything. The act of attempting to see something with night fight happens when you shoot at them, if you cant shoot, no seeing, no search lighting. Maybe you guys were already playing it this way, it was hard to tell from the report.

Agreed. in 5th using a searchlight is something that happens secondary to shooting. I did have a couple of veteran players try to tell me otherwise at Conflict, though, so I wouldn't be shocked if Reece & Jy2 play it differently.

Post-Game Analysis now up (on p.1).

Zaephyr wrote:2 Rounds of night fight is brutal! Good to see that even those often underestimated warrior squads + crypteks can handle individual threats on their own. How did the annihilation barge fare?

Nah, not really. With the use of searchlights, my opponent had no problem seeing and firing with all his units starting on Turn 1.

Warriors + crypteks can supply decent support fire when not harassed. And with the wraiths and command barges, usually my troops will be left alone for the first several turns.

AB's did alright. Each disabled a razorback and drew a huge amount of fire, but only because my wraiths were tied up in combat and my command barges were already down.

Painnen wrote:you are lucky you play a mostly-fearless army JY2...your ability to roll 5's and 6's for destroyed resaults is unparalleled and i fear would have your army running for the hills were you not mostly fearless.

i don't think that you roll that much over average but it really shows when you shoot 3-4 crypteks at a boosted skimmer and blow it up, fully glance/wreck a razor in one salvo from a barge, and eat 12+ krak missles and lose a model or two.

great strategy however. you knew what was going to happen and when it would happen. i think that is the problem with 5th edition compared to the leaked edition. everything in 5th is focused on Turn 5. All strategies are focused for turn 5 and likewise, all plans tend to go south for those that took a beating up and until turn 5. the leaked 6th dex will make every turn count for something.

nice match and list.

Yeah, I like fearless armies. Something about falling back that I don't like.... Whether canoptek necrons, purifier grey knights, tyranids or daemons....fearless armies are good.

I felt that my offense was about average. However, it was my defense - my wraith saves - that were above average.

I actually like 5th ed with its random ending. Sure you have to make a play on Turn 5, but you're also taking a risk if the game doesn't end then. So as opposed to fix length games as rumoured in 6th, there is a certain bit of variableness that makes the game less predictable. It also gives the underdog army a chance to win.


@Reecius,

Thanks for the game as well. I have included your comments into my Post-game Analysis.

@Reecius,
your army its just so well painted you should have won

junk wrote:I've been waiting a while to see this match up; there really isn't a competitive SW player in my arena so I've never gotten to take my wraith wing up against a solid SW list. From the looks of it though, had Jy2 only been using 12 wraiths instead of the full 18, he wouldn't have been able to weather this one so well.

Despite the Necron win, it makes me somewhat apprehensive about my less than complete commitment to wraiths.

I've had great results from 12 wraiths and 10 scarabs in my FA slot against BA, IG, Orks, VSM, and GK; but I'm also relying on 2 night scythes and 2 A barges for suppression fire.

The Crypteks definitely seemed clutch, I usually just run 3, but this batrep is making me seriously reconsider that as well.

A great game all around, and the terrain looks beautiful as always.

I think both builds - 12 wraiths + 10 scarabs or 18 wraiths - are good. Each build has its strengths and weaknesses and though both are good all-comer's lists, they perform slightly differently depending on what the opponent brings. Really, I think it comes down to preference. You can't really go wrong with either wraiths or scarabs, though with scarabs, you really should invest in 1 unit of spyders as well.

Crypteks have always been good IMO. Not just for the shooting, but also for their ability to come back. Just when my opponent thinks he's wiped out my troops, my cryptek comes back and my opponent then has to waste the resources just to wipe out that 1 guy again. Better yet, my cryptek may come back to contest an objective that my opponent thought he had just taken. Lol. That would be brutal indeed. He just makes my 5-man warrior units that much more resilient.

SabrX wrote:Good battle report jy2. Your dice are as hot as ever. Despite having Wraiths picked off left and right, they manage to get across the board and wreak havoc. Wow, Bjorn is a beast! He held up those Wraiths for so long.

Bjorn is pretty nasty, though I was hoping that I would wipe him out and then claim his body as another objective. Guess it was just wishful thinking. Lol.

DevianID wrote:While I was not a fan of the necron deployment, thats mainly because without seeing the center piece of terrain its hard to know what, if anything, should have been shielded behind it. Assuming the center blocked LOS, it seemed that jy2 was just giving Reecius the ability to shoot with everything, instead of only half the army.

Reecius was on the back board edge. Assuming the Wraiths started exactly 12 inches up, that is 35 inches of distance if directly across. By offseting the wraiths on the rt flank, 33 inches of length, the middle long fangs would be out of range. Then, the second/third unit of wraiths could use the giant hill as cover from the middle long fangs--assuming it provided cover.

Those wraiths were pretty tall. The terrain didn't block LOS to them. Anyways, I deployed the way I did because:

1. Multiple objectives. If you deploy to one flank, you risk not making it to the far objective.

2. No LOS-blocking terrain means I couldn't deny him any shooting.

3. Deploy to 1 flank and I leave my flank with the troops vulnerable.

4. The shortest distance to his lines is to deploy as far forwards as possible with my wraiths.

5. I wanted to box him in his own deployment zone. That's how I win in Seize Ground missions....with Positional Dominance. Didn't want to give him an avenue for escape.

6. Deploying to a flank to try to deny him shooting means to bunch up in a small area of space. Reece would be drooling with the chance to carpet bomb me with frag blasts.

As for Reecius, I said before that his list has a lack of close combat--which for wolves seems out of place, considering it costs only a little to upgrade 2 or so greyhunters into something fearsome. The objectives were split 2 and 2, but Reecius, besides sending 3 av10 speeders into a gauntlet of necrons, had no play for either of the cron objectives. The Wraiths forced/intimidated him so far back, with solar pulses pushing some of the razors so far forward, that jy2 just seemed to eat his way across the board.

Not necessary for his list. MSU-shooty armies such as razor-spam, venom-spam, vendetta/chimelta-spam, etc. do not rely on assault. That would actually hurt the synergy of the army. What they rely on is firepower, redundancy and the ability to either tarpit or screen out enemy units with cheap, sacrificial units of their own. That's the reason for have so many units and so much redundancy.

Also, I was really shocked that Bjorn was forward. I thought that by keeping him back some for the 3rd objective on Reecius' side if he died, that would change the drawn 2v2 objectives to the Wolves favor.

Finally, it seemed that Reecius fired everything into the catacomb command barges on turn 2. I would have put money that the 20ish missiles would continue to target wraiths--another 3 dead wraiths might have been all you needed to swing those combats. Meanwhile, it takes about 10 missiles just to get your first pen on a barge, more like 20 if they had a cover save--which it seemed they did. Seems like a bad investment on turn 2, with Wraiths incoming.

Bjorn does whatever is necessary to give the wolves an advantage. In this case, it was to tie up my wraiths. Don't count on veterans trying to kill Bjorn. I would've just ignored him if he stayed back because 1) he is just too hard to kill and 2) why the heck would I want to give my opponent an additional objective to claim?

As for the command barges, if you have ever played against them, then you will know what a huge threat they are, both for their ability to wreak havoc and for their speed to contest in the late game. At least with the wraiths, you could tarpit them with the dreads. With the command barges, if you don't shoot them down, your vehicles or long fangs will be gone on Turn 2 when I sweep attack the vehicle and then disembark and assault.

Ouch, bad luck... statistically, the wolves should have killed far more wraiths... thems the breaks! Well played by both sides! Reece, get new dice buddy...

Smurfy wrote:Appreciate going for a more "balanced" approach but honestly, still needs tweaking IMO (More 1st turn threats, all troops with dual lance (so, 5?), 2 CCBs, and 2 Annihilation Barges makes 7-9 threats rather than the MTO's 2-4 (Doom Scythes + CCBs) is a good step forward, I count the CCB as iffy because, sometimes they hit exactly what they did here in what the opponent wanted you to hit, empty transports, oh joy! lol Or were you going for more flavor this time (with trying to theme around Wraithwring) Are you looking to tweak it from here some more or stick with this over the other list? Either way, I think you could use some more target saturation as noted, the Wraiths aren't a hard threat to take out, you just got pretty damn lucky. That can happen to anyone. If you took a Scarab list it'd fare better here with that kind of luck.

Keep in mind that most lists aren't quite as shooty as Reece's space wolves. A lot of the time, my command barges actually live. Also, unlike my other list, I could actually damage his transports with shooting thanks to lance-teks and even the annihilation barges. Thus, screening is actually harder to do against my wraithwing than you think, especially if my opponent is relying on them to try to reach the objectives.

As far as tweaking is concerned, the only thing I would probably do to this list is to drop 1 solar pulse and maybe a couple of upgrades here and there to get 1 more lance cryptek. The core of the army - maximum wraiths and 2 command barge Overlords - will remain the same.

I don't really understand why spreading out a wide front was the ideal thing to do here for SW. . Sure, spread out when he starts to get in charge range, but no need to right away. I mean, when I wanna defend vs. a CC threat I usually can let the CC threat hit stuff like empty Razors no problem. Coulda helped here too with the GH in pockets of Razors/Land Speeders too. (That defends vs CCB Sweep attacks if they are *just* within sweep range normally, because they can't land on units. Maybe just aiming to use range more, though you spreading out as well just made it easier to prioritize his firepower. I think if you (Necrons) more pushed mid and then chose a flank from there to push would have been good because if you DIDN'T have good luck with the Wraiths, at least they'd hit quite a few things rather than hit 1/2 units then die as they try to cross the table un-hindered (Not using Mech/Speeders to block charging lanes is another tactic sorely missed in this report. Dual Lance from a good amount of units is good support for the Wraiths though, better than Wraiths stuck charging the walls, now you can shoot a blocking vehicle/unit and make a gap rather than watch the enemy deploy a sacrifice fence )

His long fangs are pretty immobile. So once set, they aren't moving unless absolutely necessary. That's just the drawback of a static army. Screening is good, but you don't want to do it too early or if you have alternatives. Remember, this is not Tau. He does have some rather good counter-assault units to protect the core of his army. Also, you want to get as much shooting in as possible and when I get close, tarpit me with those dreads instead, thus freeing the transports to go after objectives and skimmers to go contesting.

One of the reasons I spread out (see my previous post above) is because I didn't want to bunch up and get fragged by his missiles. Honestly, I think that would have hurt even more than if he krakked my wraiths.

Report could be a *smidge* more detailed, especially wondering how the first CCB got "over" the Razorback when its in the corner and it landed still in front of the Razorback? I am confused...

Would like your own analysis on how units are performing in your mind too, if you wanna judge how good the list is off luck/facing self then continue to do so though.

CCB flew over the razor and then double-backed as I didn't have enough movement to clear the vehicle entirely. I've posted the Post-game Analysis, which does briefly evaluate my units, on p.1.

Ok seems like you always have amzing dice rolls LOL

try playing against your self maybe that will cancel your good luck LOL

But yeah another great battle report, I don't think people know how to deal with necrons yet.

I hate variable game length and have to disagree, all it does is reward bad players (not to suggest you are in any way though btw). I think the rumored rules for objectives and game length make for far more tactical depth. I think the report verse Frankies Nurgle army highlight this for me. He clearly won that game in my eyes but do to the poor victory conditions in 5th, last turn objective grabs and contests make a nearly tabled army win. I look forward to multiple victory conditions, it makes it harder to exploit rules/lists.

I think in this report though, that it was simply poor use of the grey hunters and misjudged target priority that lost it. I understand gambles pay off some times, but this time it did not.

I still think those CCB are priority one in almost every necron match up as well. For the cost benefit ratio of shooting those CCBs turn one and making those overlords footslog, to trying to kill 3 wraiths, I would have to go for the CCBs 1st. I mean 15 missiles for 10 hits, for 8 wounds and we'll say 3 dead wraiths.... not a good use for the fangs IMO. Basically the wraiths are useless until they assault, when they do they are solid but not hammers.

I think this list is more balanced. I would swap out one generic Overlord for Akrkyn (sp?).

Illumini wrote:Can you spotlight while smoked/cruising? I thought you had to be able to target a unit to searchlight - as in make a shooting attack?

Spacecurves wrote:So one thing I noticed, I'm pretty sure cannot use a searchlight if you cannot fire a weapon. So cruising rhinos or smoking rhinos do not get to searchlight anything. The act of attempting to see something with night fight happens when you shoot at them, if you cant shoot, no seeing, no search lighting. Maybe you guys were already playing it this way, it was hard to tell from the report.

Mannahnin wrote:Agreed. in 5th using a searchlight is something that happens secondary to shooting. I did have a couple of veteran players try to tell me otherwise at Conflict, though, so I wouldn't be shocked if Reece & Jy2 play it differently.

Honestly, I don't see anything in its description that says a searchlight is used just as if it was a shooting attack. There is no restriction that I can see in the current dexes, besides the fact that it has to be Night-fight. Could you be referring to the searchlights of past codices?

Look at the actual night fight rules. You check for night fight sight distance when you fire a weapon. If you can't fire a weapon, no checking for range, no searchlight. Page 95 in my mini-rulebook.

junk wrote:Any way you slice it, wraiths are hard targets. A 3+ invulnerable save and 2 wounds, with 3 wound groups means that actually cutting down wraith squads isn't that easy. Yeah, long fangs should be dropping 1-2 per squad per phase, but even three remaining wraiths assaulting a target means a drawn out fist fight.

The thing with three wraith squads is you're either going to focus fire on 1 squad and let 2 reach your line, or you're going to try to soften them all before they reach you and try to slug it out with them, and even a few units failing night fighting is going suck because wraiths can ignore 66% of wounds no matter what the source.

Wraiths and command barges make a good team. All are so fast, killy and resilient. Focus-fire would have hurt though, considering he had 3 turns to do so. My wraiths were truly blessed this game.

serotol wrote:@Reecius,
your army its just so well painted you should have won

Actually, I believe his painting has helped him win Best Overall in several tournaments even though he didn't win Best General. His army is so purdy.

Zid wrote:Ouch, bad luck... statistically, the wolves should have killed far more wraiths... thems the breaks! Well played by both sides! Reece, get new dice buddy...

Yup. Even I was surprised (but only a little) that I had that many wraiths left. Reece's dice wasn't really that bad. With the exception of that one razor failing its cover saves, he was rolling about average. It was my dice that was rolling above-average.

Marthike wrote:Ok seems like you always have amzing dice rolls LOL

try playing against your self maybe that will cancel your good luck LOL

But yeah another great battle report, I don't think people know how to deal with necrons yet.

I actually went to Vegas recently (just last weekend). Too bad my luck didn't follow me. Lol.

My necrons are definitely hard to handle. Even experienced players will have a hard time against them. That is because there isn't just any single specific threat in my army. Almost all are dangerous and high priority threats. The normal strategy is to "kill the most dangerous threat." In my armies, the rhetorical question I pose is "which one to kill first?" Answer? All must be dealt with. Therein lies the challenge.





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Red Corsair wrote:I hate variable game length and have to disagree, all it does is reward bad players (not to suggest you are in any way though btw). I think the rumored rules for objectives and game length make for far more tactical depth. I think the report verse Frankies Nurgle army highlight this for me. He clearly won that game in my eyes but do to the poor victory conditions in 5th, last turn objective grabs and contests make a nearly tabled army win. I look forward to multiple victory conditions, it makes it harder to exploit rules/lists.

I think in this report though, that it was simply poor use of the grey hunters and misjudged target priority that lost it. I understand gambles pay off some times, but this time it did not.

I still think those CCB are priority one in almost every necron match up as well. For the cost benefit ratio of shooting those CCBs turn one and making those overlords footslog, to trying to kill 3 wraiths, I would have to go for the CCBs 1st. I mean 15 missiles for 10 hits, for 8 wounds and we'll say 3 dead wraiths.... not a good use for the fangs IMO. Basically the wraiths are useless until they assault, when they do they are solid but not hammers.

Really, it is a matter of preference. While some may like fixed-game length so that they can plan out how they will win the game, I like a little bit of randomness thrown in to make the game less predictable. Then there's less of a chance for autowins like mechdar or DE doing a really last turn contest. It also makes 2 close games even more exciting as each turn, it could be anyone's game. And even if the dice is boning you (like my game against Frankie), with random turns you can still come back from behind to pull off the win if you're willing to take a gamble.

Yeah, I agree about the CCB's and so do my opponents. Reece shot them down fairly quickly and so did SabrX when he was playing my grey knight purifiers. Those barges can't be left unchecked. Frankie ignored them and they made him pay dearly by robbing him of a well-deserved victory.

-666- wrote:I think this list is more balanced. I would swap out one generic Overlord for Akrkyn (sp?).

Anrakyr got nerfed by the new Necron FAQ's. Now he isn't as good as he used to be because supposedly he can't use MitM while embarked in his command barge (though the FAQ needs to be FAQ'd as well).

Spacecurves wrote:Look at the actual night fight rules. You check for night fight sight distance when you fire a weapon. If you can't fire a weapon, no checking for range, no searchlight. Page 95 in my mini-rulebook.

I disagree. Just because you have to select a target doesn't make searchlights the same as shooting. Night-fight is actually checked before you fire. It's a precursor to shooting, but that doesn't mean that it must follow the rules for a shooting attack any more than making a difficult terrain check when assaulting through terrain means that a difficult terrain check is an assault.

jy2 wrote:

Spacecurves wrote:Look at the actual night fight rules. You check for night fight sight distance when you fire a weapon. If you can't fire a weapon, no checking for range, no searchlight. Page 95 in my mini-rulebook.

I disagree. Just because you have to select a target doesn't make searchlights the same as shooting. Night-fight is actually checked before you fire. It's a precursor to shooting, but that doesn't mean that it must follow the rules for a shooting attack any more than making a difficult terrain check when assaulting through terrain means that a difficult terrain check is an assault.

After reading both the Searchlight rules and the Night Fighting rules, I think jy2 is correct. He beat me to the punch, but the example I was going to use is that making a Psychic Test is a prerequisite for using a psychic power, but a Psychic Test by itself isn't a power. The same thing applies with searchlights/Night Fighting.

Zarry

Here are two dakka threads in YMDC regarding Searchlights and their use.
The rules in question are explained in them.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/402686.page#3423546
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/409666.page#3553147

For the Lazy:
The only time you are allowed to choose a target is when firing a weapon.
The Searchlight is not a weapon it is a secondary effect to shooting a weapon.
Feel free to pseudo necro one of those threads to air your complaints there so
as to not further derail this Bat Rep.

Yeah I agree with those threads, I think it is very clear that if you cannot fire a weapon, you cannot use a searchlight.

I generally play that you have to be able to shoot to search light myself.

Great report guys. Jy2 has put together a list very similar to what I'm looking at doing here and it's good to see it played out while I'm waiting for my toys to come in.

And I agree that Reece needs at least a counter to heavy CC elements in his army but I'm a dingle that takes a terminator squad for logan to walk around with to handle deathstars

@Icemyn:

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.


@thread:

My intepretation is this: just because you use it in the shooting phase and it has a target doesn't necessarily make it a shooting attack or have to follow the rules for a shooting attack. For a simple example, just take a look at Anrakyr's Mind in the Machine. Unless the rules state that it is a shooting attack, follows the rules for a shooting attack or has a profile like a shooting attack, it isn't. You don't check for range for the searchlights and you don't roll to "hit" the target. Just because it is used right before shooting (after a target is selected) does not mean you have to follow the rules for shooting with it. You only follow the rules for shooting for your actual shooting attack after you've searchlighted your target.

But I am not so stubborn that I won't listen to others. Before my games, I will discuss with my opponent how he wants to play searchlights. If he wants to play that it follows the rules for a shooting attack, that is also fine by me. But I will also give him the benefit of the doubt if he plays it the other way as well.

I will re-open those threads for those who want to discuss further with regards to searchlights. Thanks.

Hulksmash wrote:I generally play that you have to be able to shoot to search light myself.

Great report guys. Jy2 has put together a list very similar to what I'm looking at doing here and it's good to see it played out while I'm waiting for my toys to come in.

And I agree that Reece needs at least a counter to heavy CC elements in his army but I'm a dingle that takes a terminator squad for logan to walk around with to handle deathstars

As I recall, your list had 10 lance-teks, a luxury I don't think my wraithwing list can afford, though I will be dropping 1 solar pulse and maybe a couple of upgrades to get an 8th cryptek.

Are you waiting for the new wraiths and night scythes to come out? Any idea when?

Bjorn is actually a pretty good assault and counter-assault unit and even his counter-assault units can shoot. Bringing in Logan and wolf guards will definitely make the list very different than what it currently is, but if you don't mind the trade-off - more assault and a little less shooting - then it could also work. It's just a matter of list philosophy.