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Daemons do not have Eternal Warrior.

Daemons in the Chaos Daemons army list do.

As to why the Avatar does not have it and Phoenix Lords do, try and think of all the ways that could Instant Death to a Toughness 6 model when the Eldar codex was written.

Force Weapons, Dire Swords, D-Weapons.

if you can quote to me where it says the Avatar has EW in the ELDAR codex, you can play him as that.

Otherwise, i'm coming for him with all my Forceweapons

Deadshot wrote:He is noted as being a Daemon. It is a special rule of his. Therefore he hs EW.

Where does it say that Daemons have Eternal Warrior? It surely doesn't in the Eldar codex. Or the Eldar FAQ. In fact, the only thing his Daemon special rule grants him is a 4++ and being affected by things Daemons are affected by. No Eternal Warrior.

In the Codex Daemons, we see, "Every model in this army has the Eternal Warrior..." - looks like gak sucks for 'Ol Khaineypoo.

Also, are you arguing his 3+ is actually a 3++, and he has the daemonic assault special rule?

chrisrawr wrote:

Deadshot wrote:He is noted as being a Daemon. It is a special rule of his. Therefore he hs EW.

Where does it say that Daemons have Eternal Warrior? It surely doesn't in the Eldar codex. Or the Eldar FAQ. In fact, the only thing his Daemon special rule grants him is a 4++ and being affected by things Daemons are affected by. No Eternal Warrior.

In the Codex Daemons, we see, "Every model in this army has the Eternal Warrior..." - looks like gak sucks for 'Ol Khaineypoo.

Also, are you arguing his 3+ is actually a 3++, and he has the daemonic assault special rule?

Dude no need to be impolite he was only quoting what the rule says in the codex, I know he doesn't have EW but there's no need to be a cigarette about it.

vipoid wrote:I think that SM, Eldar, DE, IG, Tau etc. heroes *should* be vulnerable to ID. They might have better skill and armour, but at heart they're still just as vulnerable as their comrades. Personally, I think this would make them far more heroic - they survive and triumph because of their tactical-prowess, skill and determination - not because they can stride invincibly around the battlefield, slaughtering anything that they touch.

currently, aren't the only Eldar and DE characters that have EW the Avatar(a frickin daemon) and the phoenix lords + DE phoenix lord (some debate about whether they are actually men or merely suits of armor animated by spirits)

Exergy wrote:
currently, aren't the only Eldar and DE characters that have EW the Avatar(a frickin daemon) and the phoenix lords + DE phoenix lord (some debate about whether they are actually men or merely suits of armor animated by spirits)

Almost, the Avatar does not have Eternal Warrior. This brings the number of Eldar and Dark Eldar models with Eternal Warrior that will actually turn up in a game zero.

Does DE have a Pheonix Lord?

In my opinion, things with Eternal Warrior should be GREATLY reduced. The Swarmlord is one of the few non-Apoc things I could see having Eternal Warrior. Greater Daemons, The Avatar of Khaine, and any really special MC's like that merit EW. I can think of about 2 Space Marines that should have EW, Draigo, I find justifiable to have it, not that I like him or his fluff, but by his fluff it is justified. Dante... He doesn't have it, Papa Smurf does, but the oldest Space Marine alive (iirc) doesn't?
The Phoenix Lords are legendary warriors who rise from the dead, I can see why they may merit EW. Ghazgkull Thraka is an invincible beast almost as large as a MC, his EW is justified.

Space Marines like Calgar and Grimnar should not have it. Any monstrous creature un-named or not a greater daemon should not have it. Codex: Tyranids would balance out with it, but I don't think synapse is actually THAT powerful.

Drazhar is thought to be a Pheonix Lord, it doesn't go right out and say it, but it's very heavily implied.

If swarmlord had ew that be horrifying. lol He's already one of the meanest things in cc.

Draigo beats him on the charge 9/10 and quite often not charging. And is 5pts cheaper.

Deadshot wrote:Draigo beats him on the charge 9/10 and quite often not charging. And is 5pts cheaper.

Did you do the math with or without 2 tyrant guard? I havent seen him without at least 1. If he has them you cant single him out. Plus with paroxysm your ws 1.

Thats if you get Paraxysm to work. And Draigo gets 2.paladins if you get Guard, with lash whips surely? So I'll take a Bro Banner please!!

Deadshot wrote:Force Weapons, Dire Swords, D-Weapons.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. At the time the Eldar book was written:

Force Weapons removed all remaining wounds not Instant Death.
Dire Swords, still do not cause Instant Death just remove from play.
D-weapons didn't even exist.

Deadshot wrote:Thats if you get Paraxysm to work. And Draigo gets 2.paladins if you get Guard, with lash whips surely? So I'll take a Bro Banner please!!

Well if draigo hits you dont really need the banner. Daemonbane can do the trick as well though maybe not as reliable. On a side note it was funny this weekend watching an over confident ba player watch mephiston get gibbed in one round vs swarmie. lol

Deadshot wrote:Thats if you get Paraxysm to work. And Draigo gets 2.paladins if you get Guard, with lash whips surely? So I'll take a Bro Banner please!!

With no psychic defense, paroxysm has a 1/12 chance to fail. I'll take those odds.

2/12 ctually. And Aegis makes this 3/12=1/4.

Plus you might be out of range. Or I might get the charge before you use it.

rigeld2 wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Thats if you get Paraxysm to work. And Draigo gets 2.paladins if you get Guard, with lash whips surely? So I'll take a Bro Banner please!!

With no psychic defense, paroxysm has a 1/12 chance to fail. I'll take those odds.

If Draigo is in combat while it is the Tyrants turn then the Tyrant won't be able to use Paroxysm as it's a PSA, therefore you might not be able to use it if Draigo breaks out and then it's his turn again, he could also be in a land raider, There could be a Dreadnought within 12" of Draigo meaning you're now at -4ld to cast the psychic power. There is much more to consider in a proper tabletop game in 40k as comparing 1v1's have a completely different outcome when there are armies on the table.

What he said ^.

But what did you mean by Draigo breaking out?

Deadshot wrote:What he said ^.

But what did you mean by Draigo breaking out?

Killing the Unit/Consolidating, sorry about that.

But yeah there are a lot more factors involved lol.

So if papa smurf shouldn't have it, a certain commissar Yarrick shouldn't have it either?

EW represents (in my mind) Hero's luck - thier uncanny ability to survive where lesser men fall - Draigo's squad might be hit by a demolisher cannon while he's dropped his storm shield, but luck, or perhaps a bit of the Emperor's guidance will ensure he is in the one place where he has a chance of surviving. As to why Dante doesn't have it, I don't know. But should the Swarmlord get it? Well, very few things will ID swarmy. He'd be nearly impossible to put down with it, as he;s pretty tough anyway. If he got it, he's need some sort of drop elsewhere, game balance and all that.

Well only D weapons and D cannons can really ID him with shooting, and when you are Int 6, Str 6, WS 9 and an ID inflicting MC that forces you to reroll all successful invulnerables, what psyker coukd ID him? Any Grey Knight unit on the Charge? Thought so?

Simply put, people want a little protection from GKs.

McNinja wrote:Again, I agree. Except for Maugan Ra, because he just wanders around the galaxy casually roflstomping all over Hive Fleets. Seriously, though, I do find it very odd that the Avatar of Khaine does not have EW, yet Phoenix Lords, which function basically as the Dread Pirate Roberts, do. I mean, how fast does another Eldar get your armor, put it on, and get back into battle? Instantly. Does the dead Phoenix Lord just teleport out of his armor and another one takes his place instantly?

it is alluded to in the fluff that Phoenix Lords are mere spirits animating the suits of armor. No one is sure what Drazzar looks like as he never takes off his armor and thus no one is sure there is even a man inside, nor does he ever speak.

Personally I'd like to see the swarm lord with some form of warp shield, he is suppose to be one of the most powerful creatures the tyranids make, and is one that is constantly resurrects to fight in other battles.

I could see him having both eternal warrior and a ranged invulnerable.

hell i could see his shadow in the warp causing ID as he's pretty much the closest thing to the hive mind you can get and that messes people up from orbit.

I'd say some sort of shooting Inv, but EW? When it'll only protect VS GK? If you want to pay the extra points for an upgrade that will only see use against one army, then be my guest.

liquidjoshi wrote:I'd say some sort of shooting Inv, but EW? When it'll only protect VS GK? If you want to pay the extra points for an upgrade that will only see use against one army, then be my guest.

And Space Wolves. And Blood Angels. And Eldar. And Vanilla Marines. And Chaos Space Marines. And Chaos Daemons. And, IIRC, Dark Eldar. There's more weapons than NFWs that cause Instant Death. Especially considering they're not the only force weapons out there.

Yes, but with Int 6, T6 and a 4++ they will have a time.of it. GK can reduce him to Int 1 on the charge, increase their str and have Daemonbane.

Deadshot wrote:He is the equivilent to Nid Draigo, Grimnar or Abbadon. But costs 5pts more, has no 3++ or 4++, no. 2+ armour, no deep strike. Sure, tougher and stronger with more wounds, but that won't matter with every AP3 weapon being force fed to him.

It does when he can also take a bodyguard, has invul save mitigation on his own attacks and excellent army buff bonuses, and still gets a decent invul in CC.

He's one of the few really good Tyranid units, he really doesn't need to be made any better. The rest of the book needs a lot of work, but the Swarmlord is a great unit for his cost already.

He is a great army booster, but some just want an all round beatstick. Something the Nid codex lacks.

Abbaddon, Logan and Draigo are able to get far better guards than TG.