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Rather ecstatic due to all these new finely detailed kits you have to buy at such reasonable prices.

Finley detailed kits of what? GK's? Yes, my completely GK-free Inquisitorial Storm Trooper-based army is so much better thanks to the plastic GK kits.

I'm just going to go on and assume you didn't read my post...

I did read it, I thought the wink at the end of my post explained it was all in jest. Always sucks when they discontinue an army, but nothing stopping you from using the DH rules.

I started collecting GKs back with the Daemonhunters codex because I really liked that fluff. While the new GK codex has lost some of the feel, I still really like the army and therefore continue to collect.

Theduke07 wrote:Orks are an awful codex. Has nothing to to with GK being good.

Yes, Orks are an awful Codex and that's why they're one of the best performing armies in the US. Oh, wait a minute, that doesn't add up!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Theduke07 wrote:Orks are an awful codex. Has nothing to to with GK being good.

Yes, Orks are an awful Codex and that's why they're one of the best performing armies in the US. Oh, wait a minute, that doesn't add up!

One of the best performing currently? Really? I was under the impression that currently they are a strong contender for best of the mediocre.

Edit: Note I'm not defending the claim that the codex is awful. I'm just questioning the claim that it is one of the best performing armies in the US.

DarkHound wrote:I think Grey Knights are one of the worst armies in the game. Their place in the story leaves no room for deviation and creativity. They are also such a small force with so little impact to the universe at large, getting an entire book to themselves is criminal. The Kroot have a bigger presence in the galaxy than the Grey Knights. The old book was closer to a good representation, though I'd join the Sisters and GK as auxiliaries to the Imperium's forces at large, because that's how they actually function.

Massively agree with this. GK should have stayed as a special unit for imperial armies, to be used during games against chaos. 3-10 terminators with the option to take a proper character embedded. You could give the unit tons of options and make them proper elites, not just space marines with force weapons. It's really stupid to see so many grey knights running around in mechanised squads doing fire support, fighting orks and IG etc. I know I shouldn't conflate the background with games too much . . . but GK are an awesome idea which has totally split from its original principle.

I played DH before. When I saw the new sculpts, I saw it as an opportunity to push my painting techniques, and to have a really small army (draigowing) that I could use to go to tournaments on my motorcycle.

haendas wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Theduke07 wrote:Orks are an awful codex. Has nothing to to with GK being good.

Yes, Orks are an awful Codex and that's why they're one of the best performing armies in the US. Oh, wait a minute, that doesn't add up!

One of the best performing currently? Really? I was under the impression that currently they are a strong contender for best of the mediocre.

Edit: Note I'm not defending the claim that the codex is awful. I'm just questioning the claim that it is one of the best performing armies in the US.

While it's far from perfect, RankingsHQ currently has Orks listed as the most successfull army in the US.

Orks make an interesting metagame consideration. Just when you think they're dead, people stop taking anti-horde stuff, and then they show up and walk all over people. The basic strength of a 6-point boy is hard to completely count out.

If the rest of the meta consists of a few men in AV10-12 boxes, then you see a whole lot of tools for opening boxes, and far fewer tools for killing men. So when someone drops 180 men on the table, you get caught flat-footed. Or they present a wall of AV14 boxes backed with a 4+ save, and the tools for opening AV12 boxes just aren't effective.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Theduke07 wrote:Orks are an awful codex. Has nothing to to with GK being good.

Yes, Orks are an awful Codex and that's why they're one of the best performing armies in the US. Oh, wait a minute, that doesn't add up!

Orks are not "one of the best performing armies in the US" They're a decent army, definitely not an awful codex. They're mid-tier from how I look at it.

1. Bandwagoning

2. Strong codex - lots of quality options available.

3. Cheap to build - It takes a lot less money to build it so you can field an effective force for less.

Theduke07 wrote:Orks are an awful codex. Has nothing to to with GK being good.

Orks are a solid codex that can still perform very, very well. I won't argue that GK is a bit more powerful (and has some hard counters like Purifiers) but the Ork codex is far from bad.

Boggy79 wrote:I've never played against GK so I can't comment....

Thanks for sharing your wonderful opinion.

They are either army hopping or they are ex-Daemon Hunters players.

I've loved the GK/Daemonhunters since I started playing in 4th. I only stared with Space Marines because I hate metal. (Not to mention Strike Squads only had 5 poses...)

I got into GK when they released the new plastics, and didn't realize that the codex was "OP" until after I'd already invested in a sizable army.

Read my Sig,

I have played them since 4th and 90 percent of my 8k pts is metal AND fully painted.

Low model count, easy to paint, plug and play tactics, forgiving play style for new players.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Orks are not "one of the best performing armies in the US" They're a decent army, definitely not an awful codex. They're mid-tier from how I look at it.

Well, the link Almighty Walrus posted indicates (by comparing overall army rankings and tournament wins) that Orks aren't WINNING many big tournaments (3 out of the 48 listed), but they're PLACING quite consistently. They have the highest score total for the last year, while not being particularly numerous; a bit less than 8% of the total armies that participated in those tournaments, as opposed to ~10% each for Space Wolves (#2 total score) Imperial Guard (#3 total score) and Blood Angels (#5 total score).

All that means is that, on average, people who play Orks do better in tournaments than people who play Space Wolves, Imperial Guard, or Blood Angels; three codexes that are consistently rated among the upper-tier or even OP codexes of 5th Edition. So, there's two possibilities; either Codex: Orks is quite a strong codex, or Ork players are generally better than Space Wolves, Imperial Guard and Blood Angels players.

On-topic: They're new, they're shiny, they're cheap, and they're powerful. Any one or two of those things would make them attractive; all four together is like shining a lamp on a bunch of moths.

It doesn't help you can make create an army with them for very little cash comparably to other codexes, and that the GK are very, very (over)powerful in terms of melee and survivability.

juraigamer wrote:It doesn't help you can make create an army with them for very little cash comparably to other codexes, and that the GK are very, very (over)powerful in terms of melee and survivability.

Yeah, but Terminator and Paladin armies are, IMO, on the low end of the power scale for GKs. They are only difficult if you don't know how to counter them effectivly(Paladins really suffer from low model count)

rockerbikie wrote:They are either army hopping or they are ex-Daemon Hunters players.

Or they are new and chose GK, or they are a collector and wanted to build up a GK army alongside their other armies.

So far we've identified several valid points: typical new codex bandwagon, cool models, cheap to collect, very strong codex.

I'd actually like to hear from someone who admits that they started the game because they are a very powerful army. With some armies it takes a long time to come up with valid strategies and tactics in order to be able to win with them. A new Tau, Eldar, or Chaos player is going to get their butt handed to them until they actually learn to fully utilize their army. Understandably, it's no fun to get tabled and beat down over and over, but it is a learning experience, one that many people might forgo if they see a shortcut.

GK armies, just like any other army, will lose to significantly better generals. Not everyone can be a top general, such as myself. I'm just a middle of the pack guy. Even if I'm playing a rubbish GK player, I feel as though I have to play flawlessly and have the dice rolling fairly. If I mess up or the dice are on my opponents side I don't feel that I stand much of a chance.

The ceiling is just as high as other 5ed elite armies, but the floor is so much higher as well.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Great White wrote:Some people chose them because they played deamonhunters.

I played Daemonhunters. I didn't use GK's. How d'ya think I feel about the GK Codex?

You do realize, with Inquistors, Assasins and Henchmen, you can keep playing your army with the new codex, right?

BobTheChainsaw wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Great White wrote:Some people chose them because they played deamonhunters.

I played Daemonhunters. I didn't use GK's. How d'ya think I feel about the GK Codex?

You do realize, with Inquistors, Assasins and Henchmen, you can keep playing your army with the new codex, right?

You just have to run Coteaz. This is the price for playing the least popular half of a dual codex when it gets updated. Consider yourself lucky they didn't get completely deleted from the codex(like they should have been)

Kinda funny on these type of threads people want to do a witch hunt for bandwagoners, power gamers etc but dont seem to care that not that long ago when the OLD daemonhunter players played the army it was considered stupid and no way competitive. Go from why did you bring that to the tourney to OMG you MUST be a bandwagoner, power gamer etc. As if no one owned the army prior. lol

bombboy1252 wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Theduke07 wrote:Orks are an awful codex. Has nothing to to with GK being good.

Yes, Orks are an awful Codex and that's why they're one of the best performing armies in the US. Oh, wait a minute, that doesn't add up!

Orks are not "one of the best performing armies in the US" They're a decent army, definitely not an awful codex. They're mid-tier from how I look at it.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

While it's far from perfect, RankingsHQ currently has Orks listed as the most successfull army in the US.

If you're gonna claim that someone's wrong, make sure that the statistics aren't on his side.

Also on these threads, people like to get defensive about why they bring a certain army. Obviously, there are people who have always played DH, but most aren't. Some like the army for valid reason, and some like it because it can be very easy to field a competitive army without needing to learn strategy or have any skill.

I had a nid and an Eldar army and I wanted another army. GK were both totally different to the others and also ultra-elite and therefore cheap to buy. I now use three pretty much equally, I like to do different play styles and troop types. I also do not have a spam army of GK. I have just about all the available units in my 3500pts somewhere. I field all kinds of units as I don't want Crowe 6 x purifiers in razorbacks. I don't like spam armies! The power level was not a major consideration. I bought all my armies on figures. The trygons and carnifexes got me back into the game and into nids, I used to be an Eldar player back in the day and I just liked the GK sculpts, plus the cheapness.

If so many people are playing GK's, then they'll wind up playing one another and knocking each other out of contention. I play daemons, and I'd rather see a GK player than a Ork horde.

I agree with the poster who said that GK's should have remained a smaller elite selection in another codex. GK's are primarily answers against chaos, yet most GK's I've seen don't even pay for the anti-chaos upgrades because so few people are playing Chaos at the moment.

My daemons are bloodthirsty. We particularly hate GK's. So everyone jump on the bandwagon...it just means more meals for Chaos!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing nice about the GK's is their cost...I bought some just to playtest my daemons against so I'd have good strategies when I face them at tournies.